NEED HELP] Considering between BASE VS Z51
06-12-2022, 04:49 PM
#61
Drifting
I bought my 2017 base Stingray in 2020. I think it is a 1LT. It had 1,100 miles, was flawless inside and out, still smelled brand new inside and the sticker price was $46,000. It has a manual transmission and very good brakes. The 455 hp and 460 torque are plenty for me. It has better brakes than my 2013 base Corvette. There are times that I would like a Z06 but a manual transmission Z is hard to find.
06-12-2022, 05:26 PM
#62
Advanced
For me the must have (after color and convertible) is a non Z51 because of the ride, and NPP exhaust. I had both Z51 and non Z51, my wife wouldn't ride in the Z51 due to the rock hard ride. Most race tracks wont allow convertibles anyway so it has limitations. I would suggest driving both so you can compare. I hope you find what you like. I did a nation wide search for 3 months before I found the exact options that I wanted. 1100 mile drive home after purchase and enjoyed every mile of it. Good luck.
06-12-2022, 05:40 PM
#63
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Nov 2015
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For me the must have (after color and convertible) is a non Z51 because of the ride, and NPP exhaust. I had both Z51 and non Z51, my wife wouldn't ride in the Z51 due to the rock hard ride. Most race tracks wont allow convertibles anyway so it has limitations. I would suggest driving both so you can compare. I hope you find what you like. I did a nation wide search for 3 months before I found the exact options that I wanted. 1100 mile drive home after purchase and enjoyed every mile of it. Good luck.
06-12-2022, 07:33 PM
#64
Race Director
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Location: Phila Suburbs 2023 C8 & 2013 650ix
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So, here's my take on Mag Ride for me. First, I knew that I would almost never use the option because of my past experience with my Z51 C6 and that almost all the time I'd be in soft Tour setting and ever so few times in the track setting. And the ride in the base car C7 with Z51 roll bars would never be considered "soft". I have mag ride in my 650 BMW and never use it other than keeping it in the softest setting. (I bought that car used) So why buy an expensive option that I'd almost never use? And if you ever have to replace those Mag Ride shocks, you'll be in for a very expensive experience.
06-12-2022, 08:19 PM
#65
Burning Brakes
Walt, I have to agree with you on this one! A lot of folks think Mag Ride means you crank it up to track mode and you get handling that is far better than a conventionally damped car. The reality is that Mag Ride is best for providing a smoother ride when you are not aggressively driving. My setup with Z51 Bilstein shocks is as stiffly damped as it needs to be for driving at 10/10ths. If it were any stiffer, the tires would not be able to maintain as much grip over pavement that is never as smooth as we would like. I know that the Mag Ride is supposed to dynamically change damping rates - but I have not seen that to provide real world performance results driving at the limit.
I have a friend with a 2018 GrandSport. He of course has Mag Ride, plus he has much wider tires than my car. So his car should perform better than mine at autox (where we are driving at 10/10ths). The reality is that my car is quicker. His car does under steer which limits his speed through certain parts of courses (like Constant Radius Turns, Box Turns and Sweepers if you know what those are). He also likes to set it to Track mode and the Mag Ride feels to stiff for me in that setting. We don't have perfect pavement where we autox and the super stiff shocks cause the car to skip and give up grip over the rougher sections of pavement.
The one thing I really like on his car that you get with Z51 is the ELSD diff. My car has standard mechanical locking diff, so when I add throttle in a corner, my diff starts adding torque to the inside tire which causes the back of the car to drift out if I am at or close to the limit of grip. His ESLD diff does not do that since it will not add diff torque unless it detects wheelspin. That means he can add more power in the corner before the tail starts to drift out. More power is a relative thing - I don't mean you can stand on it! I mean when you are modulating power to balance front and rear grip, his car is easier to do that without stepping over the line. The ESLD difference is a not a night and day thing, it is just a little bit better in that at the limit case. For street driving, I would never be able to tell the difference.
We had an autox today and my locking diff was hurting me in several parts of the course. There were two large turns that could be driven as constant radius turns if you picked the right lines. I had to be really careful on how much power I could add in those corners. The GrandSport was not there today so I could not directly compare the two, but I have compared them before and his car would have some advantage in those corners. Meaning if I was driving both cars to eliminate the driver variable.
Again - all this is driving at the limit. By that I mean the point where tires are starting to slide laterally. Perfectly neutral balance allows both front and rear tires start to slide mid corner. Under steer is when the front starts to slide but the rear is not at its limit yet. This at the limit driving would be insane to do on the street. To get the car to slide say for example on a typical clover leaf, you would need to be going over 80 mph. If you over estimate your ability and run out of driving talent going that fast, bad things are going to happen.
If you are driving what you think is aggressively, but not actually to the point of sliding tires none of the over steer or under steer physics comes into play. Hence the base Stingray is just as capable as the Z51 or GrandSport for street driving.
I have a friend with a 2018 GrandSport. He of course has Mag Ride, plus he has much wider tires than my car. So his car should perform better than mine at autox (where we are driving at 10/10ths). The reality is that my car is quicker. His car does under steer which limits his speed through certain parts of courses (like Constant Radius Turns, Box Turns and Sweepers if you know what those are). He also likes to set it to Track mode and the Mag Ride feels to stiff for me in that setting. We don't have perfect pavement where we autox and the super stiff shocks cause the car to skip and give up grip over the rougher sections of pavement.
The one thing I really like on his car that you get with Z51 is the ELSD diff. My car has standard mechanical locking diff, so when I add throttle in a corner, my diff starts adding torque to the inside tire which causes the back of the car to drift out if I am at or close to the limit of grip. His ESLD diff does not do that since it will not add diff torque unless it detects wheelspin. That means he can add more power in the corner before the tail starts to drift out. More power is a relative thing - I don't mean you can stand on it! I mean when you are modulating power to balance front and rear grip, his car is easier to do that without stepping over the line. The ESLD difference is a not a night and day thing, it is just a little bit better in that at the limit case. For street driving, I would never be able to tell the difference.
We had an autox today and my locking diff was hurting me in several parts of the course. There were two large turns that could be driven as constant radius turns if you picked the right lines. I had to be really careful on how much power I could add in those corners. The GrandSport was not there today so I could not directly compare the two, but I have compared them before and his car would have some advantage in those corners. Meaning if I was driving both cars to eliminate the driver variable.
Again - all this is driving at the limit. By that I mean the point where tires are starting to slide laterally. Perfectly neutral balance allows both front and rear tires start to slide mid corner. Under steer is when the front starts to slide but the rear is not at its limit yet. This at the limit driving would be insane to do on the street. To get the car to slide say for example on a typical clover leaf, you would need to be going over 80 mph. If you over estimate your ability and run out of driving talent going that fast, bad things are going to happen.
If you are driving what you think is aggressively, but not actually to the point of sliding tires none of the over steer or under steer physics comes into play. Hence the base Stingray is just as capable as the Z51 or GrandSport for street driving.
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Walt White Coupe (06-12-2022)
06-12-2022, 08:29 PM
#66
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CorvetteMike2024 (06-12-2022)
06-12-2022, 08:38 PM
#67
Walt, I have to agree with you on this one! A lot of folks think Mag Ride means you crank it up to track mode and you get handling that is far better than a conventionally damped car. The reality is that Mag Ride is best for providing a smoother ride when you are not aggressively driving. My setup with Z51 Bilstein shocks is as stiffly damped as it needs to be for driving at 10/10ths. If it were any stiffer, the tires would not be able to maintain as much grip over pavement that is never as smooth as we would like. I know that the Mag Ride is supposed to dynamically change damping rates - but I have not seen that to provide real world performance results driving at the limit.
I have a friend with a 2018 GrandSport. He of course has Mag Ride, plus he has much wider tires than my car. So his car should perform better than mine at autox (where we are driving at 10/10ths). The reality is that my car is quicker. His car does under steer which limits his speed through certain parts of courses (like Constant Radius Turns, Box Turns and Sweepers if you know what those are). He also likes to set it to Track mode and the Mag Ride feels to stiff for me in that setting. We don't have perfect pavement where we autox and the super stiff shocks cause the car to skip and give up grip over the rougher sections of pavement.
The one thing I really like on his car that you get with Z51 is the ELSD diff. My car has standard mechanical locking diff, so when I add throttle in a corner, my diff starts adding torque to the inside tire which causes the back of the car to drift out if I am at or close to the limit of grip. His ESLD diff does not do that since it will not add diff torque unless it detects wheelspin. That means he can add more power in the corner before the tail starts to drift out. More power is a relative thing - I don't mean you can stand on it! I mean when you are modulating power to balance front and rear grip, his car is easier to do that without stepping over the line. The ESLD difference is a not a night and day thing, it is just a little bit better in that at the limit case. For street driving, I would never be able to tell the difference.
We had an autox today and my locking diff was hurting me in several parts of the course. There were two large turns that could be driven as constant radius turns if you picked the right lines. I had to be really careful on how much power I could add in those corners. The GrandSport was not there today so I could not directly compare the two, but I have compared them before and his car would have some advantage in those corners. Meaning if I was driving both cars to eliminate the driver variable.
Again - all this is driving at the limit. By that I mean the point where tires are starting to slide laterally. Perfectly neutral balance allows both front and rear tires start to slide mid corner. Under steer is when the front starts to slide but the rear is not at its limit yet. This at the limit driving would be insane to do on the street. To get the car to slide say for example on a typical clover leaf, you would need to be going over 80 mph. If you over estimate your ability and run out of driving talent going that fast, bad things are going to happen.
If you are driving what you think is aggressively, but not actually to the point of sliding tires none of the over steer or under steer physics comes into play. Hence the base Stingray is just as capable as the Z51 or GrandSport for street driving.
I have a friend with a 2018 GrandSport. He of course has Mag Ride, plus he has much wider tires than my car. So his car should perform better than mine at autox (where we are driving at 10/10ths). The reality is that my car is quicker. His car does under steer which limits his speed through certain parts of courses (like Constant Radius Turns, Box Turns and Sweepers if you know what those are). He also likes to set it to Track mode and the Mag Ride feels to stiff for me in that setting. We don't have perfect pavement where we autox and the super stiff shocks cause the car to skip and give up grip over the rougher sections of pavement.
The one thing I really like on his car that you get with Z51 is the ELSD diff. My car has standard mechanical locking diff, so when I add throttle in a corner, my diff starts adding torque to the inside tire which causes the back of the car to drift out if I am at or close to the limit of grip. His ESLD diff does not do that since it will not add diff torque unless it detects wheelspin. That means he can add more power in the corner before the tail starts to drift out. More power is a relative thing - I don't mean you can stand on it! I mean when you are modulating power to balance front and rear grip, his car is easier to do that without stepping over the line. The ESLD difference is a not a night and day thing, it is just a little bit better in that at the limit case. For street driving, I would never be able to tell the difference.
We had an autox today and my locking diff was hurting me in several parts of the course. There were two large turns that could be driven as constant radius turns if you picked the right lines. I had to be really careful on how much power I could add in those corners. The GrandSport was not there today so I could not directly compare the two, but I have compared them before and his car would have some advantage in those corners. Meaning if I was driving both cars to eliminate the driver variable.
Again - all this is driving at the limit. By that I mean the point where tires are starting to slide laterally. Perfectly neutral balance allows both front and rear tires start to slide mid corner. Under steer is when the front starts to slide but the rear is not at its limit yet. This at the limit driving would be insane to do on the street. To get the car to slide say for example on a typical clover leaf, you would need to be going over 80 mph. If you over estimate your ability and run out of driving talent going that fast, bad things are going to happen.
If you are driving what you think is aggressively, but not actually to the point of sliding tires none of the over steer or under steer physics comes into play. Hence the base Stingray is just as capable as the Z51 or GrandSport for street driving.
2) MagRide ABSOLUTELY DOES give your Corvette BETTER HANDLING Characteristics. That's EXACTLY WHAT IT IS FOR.
3) MagRide will NOT give you a SOFT ride in TOUR mode.
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GQMGT (06-13-2022)
06-12-2022, 08:45 PM
#68
I take it you didn't have the magnetic selective ride control in the Z51? My understanding was that the MSRC update was installed it smoothed the the Z51 ride in Tour to almost as nice as Tour in the non Z51 Stingray. At least your wife will ride with you now! That is I'm assuming that's a plus.
MagRide is nowhere near the SOFT ride in TOUR, of a (non Z51) Stingray without MagRide.
06-12-2022, 09:10 PM
#69
Burning Brakes
Are you trying to say that Tour mode on a Mag Ride equipped car is not as soft of a ride as the non-Z51 Stingray? That might be true. I have never compared them and have no interest in comparing them because I buy a Corvette expecting a firm and controlled ride.
06-12-2022, 10:48 PM
#70
What are you saying here? Tour mode on a non-Mag Ride car does nothing to suspension firmness. The standard shocks are always the same damping regardless of what mode you select.
Are you trying to say that Tour mode on a Mag Ride equipped car is not as soft of a ride as the non-Z51 Stingray? That might be true. I have never compared them and have no interest in comparing them because I buy a Corvette expecting a firm and controlled ride.
Are you trying to say that Tour mode on a Mag Ride equipped car is not as soft of a ride as the non-Z51 Stingray? That might be true. I have never compared them and have no interest in comparing them because I buy a Corvette expecting a firm and controlled ride.
MagRide is nowhere near the SOFT ride in TOUR, of a (non Z51) Stingray without MagRide.
06-13-2022, 05:03 PM
#71
Burning Brakes
I've owned 9 corvettes. 5 C7's. Coupes, convertibles, Z51 with Mag ride, Base. Just recently purchased a 2016 Z51 without Mag ride. Compared to everything else I've owned, Z51 without Mag Ride is comfortable to me. For your needs, answer is simple, get the Base !
