When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
If you had been driving in the “rain “ setting this would have never happened. Between the rain and probably crossing the slick lane linesIs your loss of traction. I see that you were driving in sport and not “rain” as 99.9% of people do. Most people have never used, under the appropriate circumstances, or even know what the rain setting does. After extensive use of the “rain” Setting at the Ron Fellows school I was amazed at how quickly any type of loss of traction or spin will be automatically corrected by the car with absolutely no driver involvement. I think the problem is the unfamiliarity with the “rain “ setting and the only time you know it works is when it actually doesn’t let you realize it is working. When it works om wet slick pavement trying to induce the loss of traction and spin only then will you see how the car is a lot smarter in a lot better than any driver when it automatically corrects the spin. This system incorporates the brakes traction control , engine , ignition and is much more sophisticated than just the stabilitrack and ABS which the driver would have at his use in the sports setting.After using this at the Fellows school I am a true believer of using this My biggest problem is always remembering to turn it on.
Originally Posted by Nelno
First, the video ends well, there were no injuries to anyone, and my car was no worse for wear.
Second, I'm sure people will have opinions, but please, keep it cordial. I have no reason to post this other than hoping other corvette owners might learn from my mistakes.
Background:
I was out driving on an otherwise sunny day in Texas. The weather was good. I did not expect it to rain, as all of the cloud cover was to the east of me and the prevailing winds are always west to east here.
However, I got caught in the rain and you can see the results in the video here.
I believe in trying to learn from my mistakes. As such, I've watched the video dozens of times, and imported it into Cosworth Toolbox to analyze what I could (not that the GM version of Cosworth was much help).
Several things conspired to cause this:
#1: Water. The suddenness of the shower and the heavier rain just ahead leant a sense of false security. This probably also contributed to my not turning on Weather mode.
Learning: don't underestimate or dismiss road conditions. What is behind you doesn't necessarily reflect what is ahead. Also, check the weather ahead of time. I made some assumptions that were wrong this day, when in every other case I can recall, I have checked the weather beforehand and skipped driving if there was even a small chance of rain. At least partly because I don't want to have to wash the car.
#2: Speed: 80 was too fast for conditions here, and likely contributed to the event. I was trying to merge onto the highway so that I was between the pickup ahead and the SUV behind. You can see during the spin that there was not a lot of room between myself and the SUV behind (in the center lane).
Learning: This is a tough one. Had I been going slower, I might not have hydroplaned. But if I had still hydroplaned, I would likely have been closer to the SUV and hit it, or been hit by it. After this event, I felt the car hydroplaning on the highway at ~60 mph before I was able to pull off onto the frontage road. There were cars behind in the rightmost lane, so slowing down to 60 or less wasn't necessarily a good option either. So, I'm not sure what to take away from this. I feel partially vindicated in that when I did spin there was nothing right next to me, but not spinning at all would have been best. 60-ish MPH (normal speed limit is 70 or 75 on this part of highway) would have been better, despite the speed of traffic on the highway. Slower speed would have also allowed for more time to recognize the water on the road ahead.
#3: Acceleration: You can see about 40% throttle is applied just before the slide started. I felt the back passenger-side tire lose traction. I'm sure Weather mode would have helped somewhat here by damping the throttle response. I don't think the amount of the water on the road was discernible visually, and it was probably just bad luck that I applied the accelerator to maintain speed right at that point. I certainly wouldn't have applied the accelerator if I realized I was about to hit standing water.
Learning: First thing to do on wet roads, put it in Weather road.
#4: Tires: The car had Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ tires on. Not sure of the mileage (maybe 15K), but I had checked the night before the drive and they had around 1/8 of an inch to go before hitting the tread wear marker. After going back and checking more thoroughly, the inside of the rear passenger side was the lowest, just barely above the tread wear marker. That is the tire that lost traction first.
Learning: Though the tires have about 1/4 if tread on them still, the lack of grip here and after on the drive home tells me the performance is much reduced from how they handle new. Try not to get caught in the rain at all, and be aware that worn tires, even if they're still technically "good", are going to exhibit worse performance.
In short, don't do like I did and instead:
- Check the weather before driving if there's even a small chance of rain.
- If you're caught out in the rain, don't make the assumption it was a light rain (especially in Texas). Even if the rain on you was light, the rain ahead may have been much heavier.
- Be aware of your tires' tread depths (ALL FOUR) and don't forget that as they wear, they're not going to be as good as they were initially at channeling water.
- Slow down. The fact that everyone else is going 70 - 80 mph doesn't mean you should be going the same in such conditions. In retrospect, I should have just entered the highway at 60 mph. There were enough cars coming up from behind that this might not have worked well, but it beats doing a 360 on an interstate at 80 mph.
- IMMEDIATELY change to Weather mode if you encounter rain. The amount of wheel slip I felt on the passenger-side rear was tiny, but it was enough to start the slide in these conditions. Slower throttle response may well have made the difference here.
Thank God that now one was injured in this. I'm happy my Z06 came out unscathed, too, but in the grand scheme of things, that doesn't mean all that much.
Note: I'm not advocating never driving in the rain. I've done it before and I am sure will again, but I personally avoid it because it gets the car extra dirty. And if you do drive in the rain, make sure your tread is up to it and you're always in Weather mode.
Seriously? accelerating to 80+ MPH at 3500+ RPM in a Z06 on an onramp in the rain, in Texas... Right in the middle of a big fat torque curve... I'll also bet you have less than 6/32's or tread, or the Cup2 tires...
And you are somehow surprised by the result? You're also exceedingly lucky that the SUV behind you didn't punt you too...
Congratulations! You win the Corvette Forum post of the week award!
How did you win? You came late to the party, stated the obvious after 4 pages of discussion and on top of that, you didn't even read the very first post which clearly states that the car was on Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ tires. It takes skill and commitment to make a post like that! Keep up the good work!
Sir, thank you for posting your 'moment' here. Lots of awesome productive feedback. Aaaaaand some shallow not-so-helpful comments too.
It CAN happen to anyone, any car, any road.
IMO....you were not acting unsafe, reckless or clueless. That day just happened to be YOUR day for an "oh ****" event. And you've done an awesome job of self debriefing and evaluating. ALMOST getting into wreck or bad experience and "escaping" unscathed...AND being full aware of that...THAT is when we learn some very solid lessons. Experience is dug into the DNA.
80 in rain isn't dangerous by itself. MANY other factors play a part. I've done 80ish in the rain...in the Vette, jeep...etc. It's more about the road surface type and of course what tires. I won't rehash what several have already said.
one other note....thank you for NOT driving with the Hazard flashers on. LOL. I can't stand it when people do that. THAT is stupid and unsafe.
Dude, no need to overanalyze this, 80mph in those conditions in a C7 is flat out dumb. You are very lucky that you or others were not injured or killed. You have to drive like a grandma in a C7 in those conditions. Forget the excuses and learn from your mistake (or next time the lesson could be a lot more painful...). It's true that you could lose traction at 20mph in these cars in the rain, but at lower speeds it's a hell of a lot less likely to lead to catastrophe.
Kudos to you for having the fortitude to post this. First, let's clarify the modes available for all of the armchair experts' education. There are no modes labeled weather or rain, etc. This is from the C7 owners manual.
"Performance Traction Management (PTM) Mode: Displays the current PTM mode.
The options are: Wet, Dry, Sport 1, Sport 2, or Race"
I do not doubt that you lost control because the car was hydroplaning. The wet mode might have helped but the fact remains that your tires were not on the pavement but rather riding on the surface of some water. What most Airline Transport Pilots know (it's on the exam) and what we as drivers should know is the speed at which your tires will hydroplane. The formula is basically nine times the square root of your tire pressure. Here is a link to an informative article that will show you how to calculate this speed - and it's lower than you think. Thanks for the opportunity to learn from your experience. Hydroplane speeds
First, the video ends well, there were no injuries to anyone, and my car was no worse for wear.
Second, I'm sure people will have opinions, but please, keep it cordial. I have no reason to post this other than hoping other corvette owners might learn from my mistakes.
Background:
I was out driving on an otherwise sunny day in Texas. The weather was good. I did not expect it to rain, as all of the cloud cover was to the east of me and the prevailing winds are always west to east here.
However, I got caught in the rain and you can see the results in the video here.
I believe in trying to learn from my mistakes. As such, I've watched the video dozens of times, and imported it into Cosworth Toolbox to analyze what I could (not that the GM version of Cosworth was much help).
Several things conspired to cause this:
#1: Water. The suddenness of the shower and the heavier rain just ahead leant a sense of false security. This probably also contributed to my not turning on Weather mode.
Learning: don't underestimate or dismiss road conditions. What is behind you doesn't necessarily reflect what is ahead. Also, check the weather ahead of time. I made some assumptions that were wrong this day, when in every other case I can recall, I have checked the weather beforehand and skipped driving if there was even a small chance of rain. At least partly because I don't want to have to wash the car.
#2: Speed: 80 was too fast for conditions here, and likely contributed to the event. I was trying to merge onto the highway so that I was between the pickup ahead and the SUV behind. You can see during the spin that there was not a lot of room between myself and the SUV behind (in the center lane).
Learning: This is a tough one. Had I been going slower, I might not have hydroplaned. But if I had still hydroplaned, I would likely have been closer to the SUV and hit it, or been hit by it. After this event, I felt the car hydroplaning on the highway at ~60 mph before I was able to pull off onto the frontage road. There were cars behind in the rightmost lane, so slowing down to 60 or less wasn't necessarily a good option either. So, I'm not sure what to take away from this. I feel partially vindicated in that when I did spin there was nothing right next to me, but not spinning at all would have been best. 60-ish MPH (normal speed limit is 70 or 75 on this part of highway) would have been better, despite the speed of traffic on the highway. Slower speed would have also allowed for more time to recognize the water on the road ahead.
#3: Acceleration: You can see about 40% throttle is applied just before the slide started. I felt the back passenger-side tire lose traction. I'm sure Weather mode would have helped somewhat here by damping the throttle response. I don't think the amount of the water on the road was discernible visually, and it was probably just bad luck that I applied the accelerator to maintain speed right at that point. I certainly wouldn't have applied the accelerator if I realized I was about to hit standing water.
Learning: First thing to do on wet roads, put it in Weather road.
#4: Tires: The car had Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ tires on. Not sure of the mileage (maybe 15K), but I had checked the night before the drive and they had around 1/8 of an inch to go before hitting the tread wear marker. After going back and checking more thoroughly, the inside of the rear passenger side was the lowest, just barely above the tread wear marker. That is the tire that lost traction first.
Learning: Though the tires have about 1/4 if tread on them still, the lack of grip here and after on the drive home tells me the performance is much reduced from how they handle new. Try not to get caught in the rain at all, and be aware that worn tires, even if they're still technically "good", are going to exhibit worse performance.
In short, don't do like I did and instead:
- Check the weather before driving if there's even a small chance of rain.
- If you're caught out in the rain, don't make the assumption it was a light rain (especially in Texas). Even if the rain on you was light, the rain ahead may have been much heavier.
- Be aware of your tires' tread depths (ALL FOUR) and don't forget that as they wear, they're not going to be as good as they were initially at channeling water.
- Slow down. The fact that everyone else is going 70 - 80 mph doesn't mean you should be going the same in such conditions. In retrospect, I should have just entered the highway at 60 mph. There were enough cars coming up from behind that this might not have worked well, but it beats doing a 360 on an interstate at 80 mph.
- IMMEDIATELY change to Weather mode if you encounter rain. The amount of wheel slip I felt on the passenger-side rear was tiny, but it was enough to start the slide in these conditions. Slower throttle response may well have made the difference here.
Thank God that now one was injured in this. I'm happy my Z06 came out unscathed, too, but in the grand scheme of things, that doesn't mean all that much.
Note: I'm not advocating never driving in the rain. I've done it before and I am sure will again, but I personally avoid it because it gets the car extra dirty. And if you do drive in the rain, make sure your tread is up to it and you're always in Weather mode.
The exact same thing happened to me 5 years ago in my C6. I didn't realize how bad my tires were. On the inside of the tire which I couldn't see it was actually down to the wire. I spun out 6 times going to Atlantic City on the parkway. I changed lanes at 65mph and the spins started. What's crazy is a barely went out of my lane after spinning 6 times and my car stopped spinning facing the same direction I was going. since I'm always ahead of cars and not following or to the side of them I didn't ahit anybody, I'll never forget how lucky I was that night. Got a kick *** comp suite upgrade too. So I got lucky twice that night.
I've driven nearly the same speed as you in my C4 with brand new GSCs and the car stopped on a dime at those speeds in bad rain and nowhere near close to losing traction
Since this incident I always have the best tires with max tread on my cars.
I believe that if you had better tires this wouldn't have happened.
Its possible the weather setting could of helped. Anytime it rains I put weather mode on.
I have MICHELIN PILOT ALPIN PA4. Wet traction is the single most important thing I consider when buying tires. It asinine manufacturers sell new cars with slicks and **** poor wet traction as OEM. I believe they do it for handling specs in magazines. But they put us at risk.
While hydroplaning is due to wet roads, I don't blame the rain. I blame the tires in this and my own case because if you had new and great wet traction rated tires this would not have happened. PERIOD. And I wouldn't say to not drive in the rain. Corvettes are great in bad weather actually including snow (but don't drive in the snow cause the salt will mess your wheels up) with the right tires. DO drive in the rain but with the best tires!!!!!!!
And don't forget to turn weather mode on!!!
I will also add that if you have worn or bad shocks it will definitely put you at risk in the rain. Don't take bad shocks for granted. On a C7 this wasn't the case in this posters example but could be for older Corvettes.
650hp RWD in limited nanny mode (sport) in standing rain at 40% throttle with little tread depth sounds like a recipe for disaster. The C7 Z06 is a ballistic missile. Glad you and the car are okay.
Yikes!
My LS swap '84 has two different rain modes. They are called Grand Marquis and Expedition.
Man, I just cringe seeing nice two seater cars like this out on the road in the rain. To each his own but IMO the car would have been in the garage over this past weekend in North Texas. In fact, mine was. 20-40% chance of rain is a little too much for me to stray far from home. If the skies are clear I might take it for a short spin to the store but I definitely wouldn't stray more than 5-10 miles from home. The only day I drove her in the rain was the day I bought her a couple years back.
I was driving counter clockwise around 285 around Peachtree, Shallford or maybe Chamblee Dunwoody in a late model 300ZX. I don't remember the tires but they were in good shape and I only ever bought\buy good quality tires. It was no longer raining.
As I went under the underpass there was standing water. I was in the middle lane and promptly did a 400 degrees clockwise spin and came out one lane to the right and pointed more or less at the guardrail.
Stopping before the guardrail was not going to happen so I rolled the dice. I cranked the steering wheel hard to the right and went back into a spin. Completed the remaining 320 degrees and came out pointed in the right direction.
You got a taste of a whole lot of torque at low rpm from the LT4. Glad you made it out unscathed. As dangerous as these cars be? The blower on the Z06 makes it worse by 10x
Saw this in the news actually and thanks for posting OP. I am a first time Vette owner ('18 GS) and I really did not realize how careful you have to be with this car in the rain. I have already swaped my OEM's for Continental EXTREME CONTACT SPORT Summer tires and they feel much better in the rain.
I will definitely avoid highway driving in the rain above 50 MPH, use W mode and keep my tires fresh. The owners manual actually says something about the OEM tires not being meant for heavy rain.
Tire Rack has this rating on these Tires and that's partly why I got them actually. These are summer tires, I don't drive the Vette below 32 degrees unless its an emergency.
US 75 is a beezatch in Texas and so is I 20 East of Dallas. Not place to travel above the speed limit in downpours. Never seen more accidents in my life on any other roads. I drove semis in the E TX, AR, LA and MS corridor for 13 months and had several days/nights where I didn't have enough time on the clock to make it home because of a s stuff like this that ended much worse. Glad everything worked out but damn, slow it down. I drove like that in my 20s but after 1.5m miles I learened it wasn't worth it. I wish I had a dash cam for all the stuff I witnessed and drove past in the last 10 years.
+thanks for the video it is a real eye opener. happy that you are ok it has put me in a whole different mode with a whole lot to think about
bfore and while driving
I did that once on a on ramp to a freeway a couple of years ago. Reason? The on ramp had a thin coating of sandy dust on it. I goosed it and away we went! No damage fortunately.
I had something similar happen to me when I was cruising in light rain at around 50mph (steady-no change in the accelerator) and hit a little patch of standing water. Thankfully no other cars were around as I spun 90 degrees into the lane next to me.
The problem: New Michelin Cup2 Tires.
The solution: Called Michelin support and was able to return them for 80% refund toward a set of Pilot Super Sports.
The rep initially said “You know, the Cup2’s were intended for track use?” I said, “I sure do, but your site doesn’t say “For Track Use Only.”Perhaps you should rethink the way you advertise and promote that tire.”
Last edited by stevettec7; 09-13-2022 at 09:08 AM.
09-09-2020, 10:19 AM
Solution Rain Setting
Now slow the hell down! 
