jh61408

Not so sure it was great driving, rather than just pure luck he didn't kiss the divider wall. As even professional drivers can't keep their million dollar race cars from eating the wall. It really came down to two things, speed and poor timing. As it was said, the first 15 minutes of a rain storm is the most dangerous time on the road. Oil floats and makes it even more slick. Besides not getting in the way of other cars on the road as no amount of skill can compensate for that, when you are out of control.

fatsport

Glad to see everyone was safe. You stayed very cool considering the ride you went for.

Weather mode and PTM Wet are amazing tools to use. I drive my Z06 a lot in the rain, always use weather mode. I ran 4 track sessions in the rain at Roebling Rd outside of Savannah. There was literally a river running across the track - at the driver's meeting they said don't worry, but it will push your car 1/2 a lane to the outside when going over it. I was on half worn Cup 2 tires, but PTM wet was fantastic. I did slide quite a few times, but never turned more than 30-40 degrees offline before it stuck.

Any chance rear caster not being the same from side to side would have contributed to your spin? I know forum member rikhek spun out on a dry highway in his Z and attributed it to rear caster.

obnoxus

You were just along for the ride on that one. Not alot you could have done short of going slower, or better tires. We can all see you didn't hammer the throttle on the on ramp. Glad it ended OK for you. When things go bad, they go bad fast !

fsvoboda

Good advice I have heard in the past: always look and steer where you want to go. If you see a wall coming up and think you'll hit it, you'll up the chances of a hit by fixating on it.

This has worked well for me in a couple of instances when I lost it on an suddenly icy interstate.

JMII

This is correct. Its one of things you always repeat as a track instructor. Also explains why people side swipe vehicles on the side of the road with their flashers on. They stare at them - like moths to a flame. Focus forward people!

lostsoul

Dont forget theres always PFM at play...






Pure F*cking Magic

Raisin Man

Betting just about everyone driving Corvettes has had at least one, WTF teachable moment in the rain. I certainly have down here in the Miami area. Wider tires also are more prone to aquaplaning, and the Michelin Cup tires can get easily overwhelmed in the presence of lots of rain. I just back way down on the throttle and drive like a scared senior citizen in C7 until the pavement dries a bit. Even at lower speeds, I admit to still being fearful of other drivers (and short following distances!) who don’t appreciate the risks of driving too quickly in the wet on crowded roads. Priority is avoiding a wreck.

Also has given me great respect for professional drivers like Hans Stuck or Johnny O’Connell who I’ve seen go quickly in lots of rain at Sebring!

64drvr

First, I’m glad you nor anyone else was hurt. It’s also a great service to share this experience with others.

My only accident was hydroplaning in a C5. Precondition: the tires were Nitto Invos with approx 4/32 tread.

We were driving 600 miles on Christmas Eve to see family, pushing through storms to get to our destination with 100 miles to go (a bit of get there-itis). Because of the heavy rain and reduced visibility, I was only maintaining about 45mph, while crossing an overpass on the downhill side, I passed over a rutted section, the back of the car car bump steered, and we went spinning off into the grass, hitting a light pole just behind the passenger door. The car snap oversteered very quickly and my countersteering was meaningless.

I can’t explain how thankful I was that my wife wasn’t hurt.

So, while I respect people’s advice to just Be gingerly on the throttle, maintain your speed, and everything will work out regardless of the vehicle and tires, My experience firmly disagrees. We all have to make our own choices, but I will not compromise on driving in rain on tires with very shallow tread. Yes, I replace my street tires a bit earlier than the wear bars on all of our vehicles. Weather Mode on the C7 is a fantastic tool but it won’t overcome hydroplaning.

So, between our experiences I offer the following lessons learned:
I understand the conscious effort to seamlessly blend with traffic, but I think if you really quarterback this, a better option may have been to slow down considerably (like 45), use ample turn signal, and force the others to make room. 45 vs. 75 is a significant risk mitigator (obviously not absolute). The reduced energy may prevent the spin; at a minimum you will have a less dramatic spin. Set a personal reduced speed limit and do NOT violate it. If the roads are wet I drive less than the speed limit, adjusted for the given conditions.
Precondition, don’t DD tires with low-ish tread depth or poor wet engineering (ex. PSS much better thsn SC2...I didn’t see what you were running)
Absolutely be quick to transition to a more conservative driving mode.
Make sure the car has a good alignment without bump steer.
As said several times before, the beginning of rain is the most dangerous as the oils on the pavement are just rising up OVER the water, and have not yet been dispersed.

These cars are relatively light, with a large contact patch, shallow tread performance tires, and RWD

traind

Great video! Thanks for sharing it. Some combination of skill, electronics and guardian angel saved the day and you should be very pleased. 👍

Any time you are in oversteer and jump off the throttle or hit the brakes you accelerate the spin because you shift weight to the front, off the tires that are already losing traction. But the rain and tire tread combo was such that it may have been approaching impossible to save it from spinning at that speed anyway. It hit nothing so all ended well.

Maxie2U

70+ on Summer Only tires in heavy rain is almost a sure bet to hydroplane and losing control.

So either slow down or get a set of all-weather tires.

You differently got lucky.

c54u

He did have Michelin A/S 3+ tires......still way to fast for the conditions.

Nelno

Anything is possible and I plan to get the car checked out just to be safe, but I think this case it was just a slight tire slip due to throttle application just before the puddle, and hydroplaning all the way after that. The PDR data along with the video (at least to me) seems to pretty clearly show that none of the wheels had any traction, and none of the correction I or the traction control were making had any effect, before I ever (gently) applied the brakes.

Nelno

I suppose I could have screwed something up at the end, but it was absolutely purely luck that the wheels gained some traction in the inside lane. There was literally nothing I could do before that point to affect the trajectory of the boat I was driving.

Nelno

Thanks, I appreciate the honest feedback and the retelling of your incident makes me even more appreciative of the fact that no one, not even my car, was injured.

The car was wearing Pilot Sport A/S 3+. These are universally held up to be excellent tires in the rain and I will say when I first got them, the difference between them and Sport Cup 2 in any weather was drastic. However, they're still 1 foot wide in the rear, and mine were only about 1/8 above the tread wear markers. I expect, but can't be sure, newer tires may have channeled the water effectively enough to prevent this.

You are right-on with all of your quarterbacking, though.

After all of the comments here and on corvetteblogger and YouTube, these are the things I've taken away from this:
- I was lucky as hell. Maybe I've used it all up for now.
- You can't do anything when you're hydroplaning. All the data indicates the car was hydroplaning from the very moment it began to list. This is important for *everyone* to remember. Once you are in that state, you can't apply any corrections until you've got tires on the ground again. You can't always tell when you're going to enter that state. The glassy areas in the video that had virtually no standing water look exactly like the patch I started hydroplaning in.
- That is to say, don't assume you know what the conditions are ahead. I expected them to be more like what I just passed through. I hadn't yet made the mental adjustment that "it's not just a intermittent shower, it's actually pouring rain up ahead".
- I shouldn't have gotten on the highway when I saw both the traffic coming up behind where I would merge, and realized the speed I would need to go in order to find a "safe" spot.
- Speed was definitely a factor. I let the idea of merging away from traffic override my caution, thinking I was probably ok with these tires considering the rain has let up. Well, it hadn't let up ahead. In fact I think it was probably raining on the highway and not on the frontage road just as I merged.
- Just a momentary lapse of focus, or focus on the wrong thing, can be disastrous and in this case, that misplaced focus allowed me to apply throttle just before a significant puddle. Really, really, really be careful about doing that -- even a gentle throttle. My father taught me that from day one, having grown up driving in Chicago. I tighten my grip on the wheel when I have to drive in winter weather and I see the people in front of me braking before bridges. But, I either didn't see the puddle ahead of me (due to looking at the merge) or I dismissed it mentally because the couple of "glassy" areas I had just passed through didn't have significant water depth. Either way, big mistake.
- I should have remembered to put the car in Weather mode. That single action probably would have damped the throttle response enough to put it below that ~1% margin that triggered the wheel slip (traction control came on at 34.97% throttle, I maxed out at 36% throttle less well under 1/10th of a second after that, probably before I even knew there was any wheel spin, because I held it there for about .1 seconds).

Note: Some may disagree, but I don't think I did anything particularly egregious on the throttle here. I took 8 second to increase my speed 17 mph. That's definitely not driving crazy. I was off it once to go through a puddle, then back on it just before the spin started, but that was still a pretty gentle throttle application of 36% over 1.2 seconds. Everyone should remember that throttle response is not straight linear -- 36% throttle is not 36% power, but it didn't take much. I over-applied the throttle for this particular situation by a measly 1%, give or take. That's an easy mistake to make.

Nelno

They were A/S 3+ tires, still above the tread wear mark. I doubt I would have even entered the highway at all on summer tires.

But part of the issue here is that it was not heavy rain. The rain had stopped about two minutes before. In the video it's clear that it had rained, but is not currently, raining on the frontage road.

It is, however, raining on the highway and probably ramp. It's difficult to tell whether it's all rain, spray from the hydroplane and the other cars, or both. I don't think I had yet registered the fact that I was driving right into rain, or at least an area that had received significantly more rain that I had just been through.

In any case, I shouldn't have sped up to get on the highway and the safest way to do that with the traffic behind where I merge would have been to just not get on the highway at all.

sTz

... I didn’t mention this earlier, but I think I figured it out. It was the music that you were listening to... it caused you to fall asleep, but I can hear that you woke up at the end... #$@&%*!

SladeX

tire age is huge for tire effectiveness. The texas heat and sun likely aged it further. People tend to look at the depth of the tire as an indicator, but that is only part of the equation.

I did a 360 and totalled a c6 z51 in a sudden downpour condition and was lulled by what I thought was decent tread depth on the rears. The tire when old and sun exposed gets really hard and loses its ability to adhere to surfaces.

Case in point, I have psc2 tires barely 1.5 years old 2 track sessions and still a season before I flatten to the wear notches. I have been caught in rain similar to what totalled my c6, yet I haven't even seen the traction light pop on during those rain events twice in my z06. The psc2 still gripped upto 75mph fine though I did slow down and I doubt I did anymore than 1/4 throttle as I was in tour mode.

I always look at the date codes now and the max I will drive on is 4 years on my daily cars.

rrsperry

Seriously? accelerating to 80+ MPH at 3500+ RPM in a Z06 on an onramp in the rain, in Texas... Right in the middle of a big fat torque curve... I'll also bet you have less than 6/32's or tread, or the Cup2 tires...

And you are somehow surprised by the result? You're also exceedingly lucky that the SUV behind you didn't punt you too...

SladeX

There's no need to be past 2k rpm to get to 80mph, especially in that weather. At 900 rpm wot, you get 412ftlb of torque, by 3200, you have over 600ftlb. A measly 4 banger with barely 150ftlb at peak can get to highway speeds with less. 40% throttle is NOT 40% torque.

With the throttle input you had, coupled with the load, you were pushing well past 400ftlb which in a traction limited situation is pretty dangerous. Need to get a better feel for conditions as the c7 tends to mask speed and available traction more than other cars I have driven.

acroy

Thanks for sharing OP and I enjoyed the music

That was quite a ride! As others say, it looks like once it got away from you you were just a passenger. Super fortunate nothing and no one was hurt!

80 is pretty fast in the wet with wide tires... I just did a road trip with lots of 80+mph in the wet (thank you Laura) but it was in my 1-ton van with knobby tires, weights 6,000lbs with majority of it on the front axle, and tires only 275mm wide. No traction issues.

Sketchiest Vette experience was driving my C5 home through rain on 305mm drag radials. That was SKETCHY AF. Quite a lot of pucker factor. I was limited to about 35mph. Light stab of the gas would break the tires loose. This was was fine when traffic was going slow, but then it's a hazard to go that slow when the t-storm blows over and everyone else starts trying to go 70+. I pulled off for a couple hours to let things dry out.

I'll just quote this guy