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Base C7 (non Z51) at the Track

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Old 11-29-2018, 08:31 PM
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Ryan Daychak
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Default Base C7 (non Z51) at the Track

Hey Everyone,

I recently booked a track day at Mosport (Ontario) for the spring and can't wait! There's a training session, various exercises, and of course track time.

My question of this. I own a 2019 Base manual stingray. I thought I could just drive to the track the morning of, spend the day on the track then return home the same day. However it looks like there's so much that has to be done in advance.

After doing some reading here it looks like this is what has to be done...
As I understand it, when I go to the track, I have to:
  • Remove front wheels to install cooling rings with safety wire.
  • Flush the brake fluid and replace with hi-temp DOT4 fluid.
  • Flush the oil system and replace the oil with 15W50, and overfill it.
  • Set alignment to track settings.

Then, after the track I have to:
  • Pull the front wheels to remove the cooling rings, or it will cause corrosion.
  • Flush the brake system and put DOT3 fluid back!!! Why?! Why can't this car run all the time with DOT 4?
  • Flush the oil system and replace the oil with 5W30 Dexos spec which is "the only approved oil" or risk voding warranty.
  • Set alignment back to standard settings.

this was taken from this forum and was posted in 2015. How necessary is it to do all this and has anything changed since 2015 that would enable me to not do any of this? To be honest I just don't have the time and never in a million years thought all this would have to be done to have some fun .

Has anyone tracked the base C7 without doing any of the above? if so was there any issues afterwards?

Last edited by Ryan Daychak; 11-29-2018 at 11:42 PM.
Old 11-29-2018, 08:45 PM
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stevettec7
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I’ve tracked my Z51 a couple times and the prep sounds similar, although as you mentioned, why would you need to go back to a Dot 3 brake fluid. Mine remained Dot4.

You can safely install your brake cooling rings before you leave for the track. In fact, I didn’t pull mine off until a few days after my track day.

For the motor oil, I left the 15w-50 in until it was time to change it again. I’m in Florida so the temps are perfect for it plus my service department showed me some specs that said it wouldn’t void the warranty.

Have fun. I know you will.

Last edited by stevettec7; 11-29-2018 at 08:47 PM.
Old 11-29-2018, 09:03 PM
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Ryan Daychak
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Originally Posted by stevettec7
I’ve tracked my Z51 a couple times and the prep sounds similar, although as you mentioned, why would you need to go back to a Dot 3 brake fluid. Mine remained Dot4.

You can safely install your brake cooling rings before you leave for the track. In fact, I didn’t pull mine off until a few days after my track day.

For the motor oil, I left the 15w-50 in until it was time to change it again. I’m in Florida so the temps are perfect for it plus my service department showed me some specs that said it wouldn’t void the warranty.

Have fun. I know you will.
Thx for the feedback Bud, I'm going to do a quick google search to see what exactly brake cooling rings are and how hard they are to install.
Old 11-29-2018, 09:07 PM
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Gearhead Jim
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Our car is a 2017 Z51, A8. I haven't tracked it yet but did quite a bit in Camaro/C5/C6.

I'm guessing that you're familiar with performance driving but haven't yet tracked something like a C7. Correct?

Does a non-Z51 have the cooling rings? I thought they disappeared at the end of MY 2016. Our 2017 Z51 has the one piece with no rings.
The two-piece rotors had some issues (rattling, etc?) and IIRC you could get them replaced by the newer one-piece at no charge. There's a GM bulletin somewhere that describes the situation.

Many DOT4 brake fluids are not a good as GM would like you to use on the track, the Manual has recommend temperature ranges. But unless you are really hard on the brakes, ordinary DOT4 will be good enough for someone just getting started, especially on base car pads. I use DOT4 and flush the whole system including ABS, once a year. That works for me, but many track organizations will require DOT4 or better, flushed within two weeks of the event.
Pads will also be an issue as you get better, but that's another story.

You don't need to flush the oil system, just drain & refill. IIRC, the C7 Base car manual tells you to not overfill for track use, but look at both the normal and Track sections of your manual to be sure.
GM also publishes a Track Preparation Guide, but I'm not sure how much of that applies to the base car.

You may corner better with a track alignment, but for the first few events you and your tires will be just fine with a good street alignment. The PFADT alignment numbers for Street will be a good start.

If you can get rid of those two piece rotors, the only thing you'll need to do after the event is switch back to 5W-30 and check pad wear.

Some people will have you spending thousands of dollars on track prep and goodies to make your car faster. But the biggest improvement will be you.
You just need brakes that will be safe for your level of enthusiasm, and a car in generally good condition.
If the car starts throwing warnings at you or starts restricting it's performance, take a cooldown lap or two and then pick up the pace again.
Both you and the car will be ready to overheat after a 20 minute session, don't stay out longer unless you're a marathon man.

Most of all, fiercely avoid the temptation to see how fast you can drive. Start at a quick but comfortable pace, let other people pass you, and work on The Line and smoothness. Speed will come by itself.
No matter how good you get, there will always be somebody who's faster. Don't worry about it.
Put the car in Sport, not Track. Let the ABS and Stability systems save your butt if needed, but consider them to be a warning that you're overdriving your or the car's ability.

Download a track map and watch YouTube videos until you know the layout perfectly. Be able to draw the map from memory. Knowing in advance what to expect at each corner is a huge advantage in speed, enjoyment, and safety.

Have Fun!

Last edited by Gearhead Jim; 11-29-2018 at 09:31 PM.
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Old 11-29-2018, 09:34 PM
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Ryan Daychak
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I am not familiar with Performance driving at all...lol Hense the driver training before hand. I'm really excited for the experience but by no means would I say I know what I'm doing.
I have no idea of my car has cooling rings. I will look into this to find out. If it doesn't is this something it really needs?

Regarding the two piece rotors. Ill look into this and see if i can get them replaced for a one piece. Maybe this is something that I'll do after the event so I have new rotors afterwards.

Regarding the oil. You mention to switch back to 5W-30 but made no mention of which oil I should have the day of the event? Is it still 5W-30 or something else?
Old 11-29-2018, 09:42 PM
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KNSBrakes
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The base model has 1 piece rotors so there are no cooling rings. Replacements are cheap so if you wear them it's fine.

The brakes take a good beating - so track fluid and pads will greatly enhance your day. Toasted brakes are no fun and not safe. Don't fool your self into thinking street pads are fine.
Old 11-29-2018, 10:13 PM
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Gearhead Jim
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St. Jude Donor '13

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Originally Posted by Ryan Daychak
I am not familiar with Performance driving at all...lol Hense the driver training before hand. I'm really excited for the experience but by no means would I say I know what I'm doing.
I have no idea of my car has cooling rings. I will look into this to find out. If it doesn't is this something it really needs?

Regarding the two piece rotors. Ill look into this and see if i can get them replaced for a one piece. Maybe this is something that I'll do after the event so I have new rotors afterwards.

Regarding the oil. You mention to switch back to 5W-30 but made no mention of which oil I should have the day of the event? Is it still 5W-30 or something else?
I goofed about 5W-30.
Your car is a 2019, so it probably came with ESP 0W-40 and that oil is approved for both street and track on all years of C7 except the ZR1. So you can skip the 15W-50 and 0W-30, just use the same 0W-40 that probably came in the car and change when the OLI starts mentioning it. Maybe do the first couple of changes at 50% OLI if you want to be meticulous.

If you get the chance to do an autocross or two before the event, that will get you some experience driving hard in an environment where mistakes aren't as expensive. Just be aware that some people lay out AX courses that don't have as much runoff space or slide room as they should. Some clubs even run autocross schools where you get instruction.

One thing about AX that is good/bad compared to high speed, is that in AX if you start to lose it, just get off the power or even nail the brakes and you'll stop pretty quickly. At higher speed, dropping the throttle or hitting the brakes when you're in a little trouble will quickly get you into a lot of trouble.
.
Old 11-29-2018, 10:28 PM
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Racingswh
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I would pass on an event that puts you on track at your first event without an instructor. Recipe for crashes. Could be anyone there hoping GM Racing is in the stands scouting new talent then lose control and you get collected up. No thanks. I have been doing this for 20 years now and I would not want to be on track at that event. Sorry for the negative vibe. These cars work fantastically well on the track but you need at least a bit of seat time before you get turned loose.
Old 11-29-2018, 11:02 PM
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Ryan Daychak
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This is a track day with an instructor There's no way I would do this on my own the first time out. the only cars on the track will be people participating in the course and I'll have an instructor with me the whole time..

I really appreciate the help Thanks guys
Old 11-29-2018, 11:14 PM
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Racingswh
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Originally Posted by Ryan Daychak
This is a track day with an instructor There's no way I would do this on my own the first time out.
I apologize for the misunderstanding. I read what was marked in red in your original post and thought that pertained to your event.

Having instructors in the cars will make for a very enjoyable event for all involved and your car will work exceptionally well. Have a great time!!

Last edited by Racingswh; 11-29-2018 at 11:15 PM.
Old 11-29-2018, 11:26 PM
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JMII
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Originally Posted by Ryan Daychak
During track driving only the driver seat may be occupied - no one can be in the passenger seat - no instructor/coach allowed!!!
What craziness is this? I am an HPDE instructor and trust me you WANT and pretty much NEED to have an instructor with you - especially if its your first time.

The only thing you really need is to swap the brake fluid out, the stock stuff with boil too quickly leading to brake fade (soft pedal). Everything else is optional. If you are running the 0W-40 oil then your are good. If not then a heavy weight would be better, regardless just keep a close tab on your temps and make sure to take a cool down lap. I've instructed in many completely stock vehicles and the only common issue is brakes. Make sure your pads have at least 50% life in them before heading out. Switching to a better pad is not a bad idea but once again it is not necessary for your first time. Leave the traction control ON, it will save your butt. Do NOT put the parking brake on when back in the pits as your pads can melt to the extremely hot rotors, so just chock the wheels to keep the car from rolling. Pop the hood and left the engine idle for a bit back at the garage between sessions. Keep an eye on the fuel gauge its going to drop quickly. Make sure you eat and drink, track driving takes a physical and mental toll on your body, you'll be wiped out in no time. If you are feeling tired call it a day, mistakes tend to happen when your not at your best. Discuss your sessions with the instructor, make sure you are getting good feedback so you can gain confidence.

Originally Posted by Gearhead Jim
Most of all, fiercely avoid the temptation to see how fast you can drive. Start at a quick but comfortable pace, let other people pass you, and work on The Line and smoothness. Speed will come by itself.
No matter how good you get, there will always be somebody who's faster. Don't worry about it.
Put the car in Sport, not Track. Let the ABS and Stability systems save your butt if needed, but consider them to be a warning that you're overdriving your or the car's ability.

Download a track map and watch YouTube videos until you know the layout perfectly. Be able to draw the map from memory. Knowing in advance what to expect at each corner is a huge advantage in speed, enjoyment, and safety.
excellent advice above.

Enjoy the what this car was made for

Old 11-30-2018, 07:29 AM
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The Chev
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Anyone tracking a base car regularly? Mine is a base model, the deal was too good to pass up. As far as I can tell the base model C7 is better equipped for the track than my Z51 C5 was.

I know a Z51 would be better given everything equal, but how capable is the base model for a few track days a year?
Old 11-30-2018, 08:39 AM
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dfettero
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Default Keep it simple to start

I've done 20+ days in my base model at VIR, Summit Point, Charlotte Roval and Dominion Raceway.
Instructed seat time is far more valuable at this point.


For your first few session:

Replace brake fluid with high temp DOT4 (RBF600 or similar)
Check lug nuts 100psi before each session
Put in new Mobil 1 ESP 0W-40 (no need to switch back and forth)
No cooling rings or track alignment needed
Get yourself a helmet

As you improve you will want to:

add spoiler and splitter (if not equipped)
Z-51 Sway Bars
upgrade front brake calipers and rotors to Z-51
Upgrade stock Brembo pads (eg Powerstop Track Day)

Originally Posted by Ryan Daychak
Hey Everyone,

I recently booked a track day at Mosport (Ontario) for the spring and can't wait! There's a training session, various exercises, and of course track time.

My question of this. I own a 2019 Base manual stingray. I thought I could just drive to the track the morning of, spend the day on the track then return home the same day. However it looks like there's so much that has to be done in advance.

After doing some reading here it looks like this is what has to be done...
As I understand it, when I go to the track, I have to:
  • Remove front wheels to install cooling rings with safety wire.
  • Flush the brake fluid and replace with hi-temp DOT4 fluid.
  • Flush the oil system and replace the oil with 15W50, and overfill it.
  • Set alignment to track settings.

Then, after the track I have to:
  • Pull the front wheels to remove the cooling rings, or it will cause corrosion.
  • Flush the brake system and put DOT3 fluid back!!! Why?! Why can't this car run all the time with DOT 4?
  • Flush the oil system and replace the oil with 5W30 Dexos spec which is "the only approved oil" or risk voding warranty.
  • Set alignment back to standard settings.

this was taken from this forum and was posted in 2015. How necessary is it to do all this and has anything changed since 2015 that would enable me to not do any of this? To be honest I just don't have the time and never in a million years thought all this would have to be done to have some fun .

Has anyone tracked the base C7 without doing any of the above? if so was there any issues afterwards?

Last edited by dfettero; 11-30-2018 at 08:40 AM.
Old 11-30-2018, 09:10 AM
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Corgidog1
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Originally Posted by Gearhead Jim
Our car is a 2017 Z51, A8. I haven't tracked it yet but did quite a bit in Camaro/C5/C6.

I'm guessing that you're familiar with performance driving but haven't yet tracked something like a C7. Correct?

Does a non-Z51 have the cooling rings? I thought they disappeared at the end of MY 2016. Our 2017 Z51 has the one piece with no rings.
The two-piece rotors had some issues (rattling, etc?) and IIRC you could get them replaced by the newer one-piece at no charge. There's a GM bulletin somewhere that describes the situation.

Many DOT4 brake fluids are not a good as GM would like you to use on the track, the Manual has recommend temperature ranges. But unless you are really hard on the brakes, ordinary DOT4 will be good enough for someone just getting started, especially on base car pads. I use DOT4 and flush the whole system including ABS, once a year. That works for me, but many track organizations will require DOT4 or better, flushed within two weeks of the event.
Pads will also be an issue as you get better, but that's another story.

You don't need to flush the oil system, just drain & refill. IIRC, the C7 Base car manual tells you to not overfill for track use, but look at both the normal and Track sections of your manual to be sure.
GM also publishes a Track Preparation Guide, but I'm not sure how much of that applies to the base car.

You may corner better with a track alignment, but for the first few events you and your tires will be just fine with a good street alignment. The PFADT alignment numbers for Street will be a good start.

If you can get rid of those two piece rotors, the only thing you'll need to do after the event is switch back to 5W-30 and check pad wear.

Some people will have you spending thousands of dollars on track prep and goodies to make your car faster. But the biggest improvement will be you.
You just need brakes that will be safe for your level of enthusiasm, and a car in generally good condition.
If the car starts throwing warnings at you or starts restricting it's performance, take a cooldown lap or two and then pick up the pace again.
Both you and the car will be ready to overheat after a 20 minute session, don't stay out longer unless you're a marathon man.

Most of all, fiercely avoid the temptation to see how fast you can drive. Start at a quick but comfortable pace, let other people pass you, and work on The Line and smoothness. Speed will come by itself.
No matter how good you get, there will always be somebody who's faster. Don't worry about it.
Put the car in Sport, not Track. Let the ABS and Stability systems save your butt if needed, but consider them to be a warning that you're overdriving your or the car's ability.

Download a track map and watch YouTube videos until you know the layout perfectly. Be able to draw the map from memory. Knowing in advance what to expect at each corner is a huge advantage in speed, enjoyment, and safety.

Have Fun!

That is an excellent tutorial for someone not familiar tracking a car.
Old 11-30-2018, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by JMII
What craziness is this? I am an HPDE instructor and trust me you WANT and pretty much NEED to have an instructor with you - especially if its your first time.

I
t sounds like he will have an instructor, but I too interpreted his post like you did.

The only thing you really need is to swap the brake fluid out, the stock stuff with boil too quickly leading to brake fade (soft pedal). Everything else is optional. If you are running the 0W-40 oil then your are good. If not then a heavy weight would be better, regardless just keep a close tab on your temps and make sure to take a cool down lap. I've instructed in many completely stock vehicles and the only common issue is brakes. Make sure your pads have at least 50% life in them before heading out. Switching to a better pad is not a bad idea but once again it is not necessary for your first time. Leave the traction control ON, it will save your butt. Do NOT put the parking brake on when back in the pits as your pads can melt to the extremely hot rotors, so just chock the wheels to keep the car from rolling. Pop the hood and left the engine idle for a bit back at the garage between sessions. Keep an eye on the fuel gauge its going to drop quickly. Make sure you eat and drink, track driving takes a physical and mental toll on your body, you'll be wiped out in no time. If you are feeling tired call it a day, mistakes tend to happen when your not at your best. Discuss your sessions with the instructor, make sure you are getting good feedback so you can gain confidence.

Someone said that the C7 parking brake is set up differently from previous generations, and can be set without danger when the brakes are hot. I wouldn't try that until I had confirmation, my normal technique is to drive around the area for an additional couple minutes of cooldown, then coast into the parking spot with minimal brake use and use the tranny to hold the car in place.

excellent advice above.

Enjoy the what this car was made for

Good advice.
Old 11-30-2018, 11:47 AM
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rb185afm
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If you want to seriously track a base, you will need at a minimum a rear sway bar and upgraded brakes. The base brakes are horrible. When your starting out, they are fine. But if you develop pace, you will quickly find they are not up to the task. I would suggest Z51 sway bars front and rear and a ESSX Brake kit.
Old 11-30-2018, 01:09 PM
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mtaxman
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It is written in the Owners Manual to NOT TRACK a base model....isn't it?
Absent the dry sump I believe that would be a mistake.
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Old 11-30-2018, 01:43 PM
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dfettero
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Default High banked turns

Not really an issue on road courses. 20+ days. If on a banked high g circle track could be an issue.

Originally Posted by mtaxman
It is written in the Owners Manual to NOT TRACK a base model....isn't it?
Absent the dry sump I believe that would be a mistake.
No proble
Old 11-30-2018, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by mtaxman
It is written in the Owners Manual to NOT TRACK a base model....isn't it?
Absent the dry sump I believe that would be a mistake.

This is the first generation to offer a dry sump from the factory. If you think you cannot track a wet sump car...................... you wrong.
Old 11-30-2018, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by mtaxman
It is written in the Owners Manual to NOT TRACK a base model....isn't it?
Absent the dry sump I believe that would be a mistake.
You can track anything. The weak points will always be the brakes and engine cooling. Obviously the dry sump holds more oil and is designed to feed it to the engine better but a base model will blast around the track just fine. I tracked a Touring (not the special Track) edition Nissan 350Z for 5 years. My car was stock aside from brakes, sway bars and mid-pipe. The C7 is a sports car, it was made to be driven hard.


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