How many people could have been fed for the money that Corvette cost
03-23-2017, 03:20 PM
#121
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Let's see if anyone gets this...
Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this...
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing. The fifth would pay $1. The sixth would pay $3. The seventh would pay $7. The eighth would pay $12. The ninth would pay $18. The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.
So, that's what they decided to do.
The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve ball. “Since you are all such good customers,” he said, “I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20”. Drinks for the ten men would now cost just $80.
The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men ? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share?
They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.
So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by a higher percentage the poorer he was, to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using, and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay.
And so the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% saving). The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% saving). The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% saving). The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% saving). The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% saving). The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% saving).
Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings.
“I only got a dollar out of the $20 saving,” declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,“but he got $10!”
“Yeah, that's right,” exclaimed the fifth man. “I only saved a dollar too. It's unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me!” “That's true!” shouted the seventh man. “Why should he get $10 back, when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!”
“Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison, “we didn't get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!”
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.
The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!
And that, boys and girls, journalists and government ministers, is how our tax system works. The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.
David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D. — Professor of Economics.
Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this...
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing. The fifth would pay $1. The sixth would pay $3. The seventh would pay $7. The eighth would pay $12. The ninth would pay $18. The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.
So, that's what they decided to do.
The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve ball. “Since you are all such good customers,” he said, “I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20”. Drinks for the ten men would now cost just $80.
The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men ? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share?
They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.
So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by a higher percentage the poorer he was, to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using, and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay.
And so the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% saving). The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% saving). The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% saving). The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% saving). The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% saving). The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% saving).
Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings.
“I only got a dollar out of the $20 saving,” declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,“but he got $10!”
“Yeah, that's right,” exclaimed the fifth man. “I only saved a dollar too. It's unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me!” “That's true!” shouted the seventh man. “Why should he get $10 back, when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!”
“Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison, “we didn't get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!”
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.
The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!
And that, boys and girls, journalists and government ministers, is how our tax system works. The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.
David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D. — Professor of Economics.
03-23-2017, 03:24 PM
#122
Bottom line, quite a few could be fed for the cost of a corvette. Many could be fed from money spent on nonessentials, so what? I am all for ridding the world of hunger especially since I think we have the means to do so. But if you take away the incentives from the hard working there will be far more poor to feed. There will be no motivation to do anything more than survive. Who will help anyone then? Just being realistic.
03-23-2017, 04:21 PM
#126
Burning Brakes
Hey...the way I look at it this...my purchase of a Corvette...keeps an auto worker and family clothed, fed and in turn that autoworker spends that wage which is also taxed to help pay to keep this country giving it away to the rest of the world!
03-23-2017, 04:35 PM
#128
The thing is that the wealthier your are, the more your income is from things like capital gains, not W2 earnings. So your effective tax rate on all capital gains is 15%. I'm not a tax expert and will not pretend to be. So to answer your question, what is fair in my eyes:
you earn all told $50K, you pay $10K
100K, you pay $20K. A million, you pay $200K
and so on. It's fair, reasonable, equitable. And the pain is even across the board.
That's fair in my opinion. I'm well aware that the top earners contribute the most total dollars, but that is not the same as fair and equitable in terms of percentage equality.
you earn all told $50K, you pay $10K
100K, you pay $20K. A million, you pay $200K
and so on. It's fair, reasonable, equitable. And the pain is even across the board.
That's fair in my opinion. I'm well aware that the top earners contribute the most total dollars, but that is not the same as fair and equitable in terms of percentage equality.
You proposed a flat tax of 20%. Under current law, the max capital gain rate is in fact 20% (not 15%), plus the net investment tax of 3.8% which will kick in for all the utlra wealthy. In short, you say the utlra rich don't pay their fair share, and a 20% flat tax would be fairer, but that would in fact be a tax cut to the ultra rich.
As a CPA, any time I hear any mention of taxes in political debates, especially by the media, I cringe. It boils down to a lot of misinformation, and misunderstanding. (Which is justified because our tax system is a mess.)
03-23-2017, 04:58 PM
#129
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This thread is just stupid, you could say that " how many people could you feed if you didn't buy your house" or your vacation or your annuity or....drive your Corvette & enjoy it, you worked for it, right?
03-23-2017, 05:43 PM
#130
Racer
My cable bill and cell phone bill are a lot more than my car payment. And in three years I will still be paying for cable and cell service. And I didn't even put internet service in there.
Bottom line, people see you have something they don't and instead of saying "I gotta get me one of those", no say "you should not be allowed to have that". It is a sick place our society has gone. Hopefully the drug to cure it is in the works.
Bottom line, people see you have something they don't and instead of saying "I gotta get me one of those", no say "you should not be allowed to have that". It is a sick place our society has gone. Hopefully the drug to cure it is in the works.
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speed4tu (03-24-2017)
03-23-2017, 06:36 PM
#132
Unless you were born with those advantages.
I come from an upper middle class background (my parents raised their standard of living significantly from when they got married until I graduated college) and some of my middle class and lower middle class acquaintances "cry foul" because they did not have the same advantages I had.
Granted that is a tangential argument here, but it should be noted money does not always come from your own hard work. I'd have none of the stuff I have if my parents didn't send me to good schools, pay for college, and help me get on my feet until I had a good paying job.
I think this usually gets lost when people pick sides, which is why I refuse to pick a side. Capitalism is great, but at a minimum opportunities need to exist so everyone has the best chance at succeeding (what those opportunities are is up for debate, naturally).
Ymmv.
I come from an upper middle class background (my parents raised their standard of living significantly from when they got married until I graduated college) and some of my middle class and lower middle class acquaintances "cry foul" because they did not have the same advantages I had.
Granted that is a tangential argument here, but it should be noted money does not always come from your own hard work. I'd have none of the stuff I have if my parents didn't send me to good schools, pay for college, and help me get on my feet until I had a good paying job.
I think this usually gets lost when people pick sides, which is why I refuse to pick a side. Capitalism is great, but at a minimum opportunities need to exist so everyone has the best chance at succeeding (what those opportunities are is up for debate, naturally).
Ymmv.
LT1 your experience seems to mirror mine very closely. I was lucky enough to be born into a family that had moved up substantially from their parents. Lucky enough to be in a crime free environment and going to one of the highest rated high schools in the country. I just deleted much of what I wrote to preserve my posting privilege, but I sum up in that you have a very balanced, fair, human, and compassionate side that the "hard work is the all you need to succeed" folks don't get. Hard work is essential, but is not the only ingredient.
Fun site: Politicalcompass.com click on it and it asks a bunch of pointed questions and plots your political position on an x,y coordinate system. On the x coordinate is the usual left/right and on the y is authoritarian/libertarian. You might try it...based on what you post I'd be surprised if you came up very far to the right...I found out that I am more libertarian than I would have believed...and a few clicks to the left. Imagine that - a leftie that drives a Vette, owns a gun, and likes NASCAR.
Only Vette comments for me from now onward
03-23-2017, 08:54 PM
#134
Le Mans Master
When I bought my 1970 Corvette in 2016 it had fed a lot of people over the last 46 years and as I go about rebuilding it it will continue to feed a lot of people for many years to come.
So if you ask me, Corvettes, unlike a VOLVO are the gifts that keep on giving.
So if you ask me, Corvettes, unlike a VOLVO are the gifts that keep on giving.
03-23-2017, 09:24 PM
#135
A lot of "those people" that make comments like that own boats , 4 wheel, jet skis .......
03-23-2017, 09:54 PM
#136
Moderator
03-23-2017, 11:37 PM
#137
Melting Slicks
Bottom line, quite a few could be fed for the cost of a corvette. Many could be fed from money spent on nonessentials, so what? I am all for ridding the world of hunger especially since I think we have the means to do so. But if you take away the incentives from the hard working there will be far more poor to feed. There will be no motivation to do anything more than survive. Who will help anyone then? Just being realistic.
03-24-2017, 11:53 AM
#138
Safety Car
It's like news reports of the rich getting a tax break if Obamacare is repealed and replaced. It's really an admission that those taxes were paying for Obamacare. iOW, it's not a tax cut rather you're allowing them to keep the money they had in the first place. As a CPA I'm sure you know getting a tax refund is only getting your money back from the government.
03-24-2017, 01:20 PM
#139
Instructor
There is a large (and still growing) number of people in this republic who believe that ALL "charity" and good works must only come from the benevolent state. They'd rather someone be poor & dependent than to gain wealth via hard work, careful investing, discipline or other "non-governmental" means.
To many of them, a social program is morally superior to a job & a good economy.
P.S. I saw this on Facebook a few times recently and remember it from a few years ago when it referred to a new Harley-Davidson rather than a Corvette.
03-24-2017, 02:26 PM
#140
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St. Jude Donor '05-'06-'07-'08-'09, '14-'15-'16-'17-'18
In todays republic, If you're a white male, you will never be given credit for your hard work or ideas or achievements. The haters will always assume that you have some kind of invisible, made up advantage. Or some kind of "Old Boys Club" that are pulling magic strings for you. It's all part of the Liberal agenda to minimize your accomplishments,..........It's the new liberal narrative! You don't need to justify your life choices to anyone.
Is that how you see things?
Last edited by ExRedRacer; 03-24-2017 at 02:27 PM.