Porsche build quality vs Corvette build quality
#181
Race Director
I currently have a 08 Cayman S and the option you have to get is PASM which is a have to have on that car. Like the Magride in your Z51, you can set the shocks from comfort to sport, but unlike Magride, the Pasm actually adjusts the shock within milliseconds depending on road conditions. When I first test drove the car I was on a back road with a chicane coming up. I was at about 70 before noticing that it was full of large ruts and potholes. Thinking that it was going to wash out a bit, I took a conservative line. I braced for a very bumpy ride, but to my amazement, the car just sailed through like there was no ruts at all and all I felt in the cabin was a mild rumble. But what turned me from getting another one was the decision by Porsche to convert all Caymans over to a 4 cylinder. Despite the power and torque increase, it wasn't the same for me. Needless to say, I'm on this forum now and have a heavily loaded 3LT GS 7M on order. I'll still keep the Cayman and hope the new Vette will be without some of the more annoying issues like a loudly banging roof panel or electronic failures reported on this forum. Squeaks, rattles, and minor paint flaws I could care less about, but a continuous loud banging of the roof panel over your head or a dash failure would make the car no fun to drive. But both eyes open and hope I get a good one.
#182
16 Vettes and counting…..
#183
I've seen a crap load of 16's and 17's with misaligned panels and orange peel ... including mine. To be honest, i have not seen a single Vette at any dealership that didnt have some type of panel gap/misalignment. Not a single one of my german cars that i've owned in the last 15 or so years have had ANY panel gaps or orange peel. But guess what? Just about every one of my American cars had em.
I would never take a porsche over a corvette, but god i wish American companies put cars together like the germans do. Its like they role their cars off the production line with pride, while we do the exact opposite.
I would never take a porsche over a corvette, but god i wish American companies put cars together like the germans do. Its like they role their cars off the production line with pride, while we do the exact opposite.
Other than exotics, starting at over $200K, which are wet-sanded and buffed during the paint process at the factory, I've never seen any car from any manufacturer without orange peel. Porsche certainly has it too, perhaps less, but it's there.
I've owned 8 BMWs and several MBs in the last 20 years. Some were better than others, but they all had it as well.
Last edited by Foosh; 02-20-2017 at 11:10 PM.
#184
The paint on my 2014 Porsche Cayman 981 is like glass. No orange peel of any kind. The paint is perfect in quality.
I don't know about other Porsche owners, but there is simply no comparison in the paint quality between my Porsche 981 and my Corvette C7.
The Porsche paint finish is far superior to the Corvette C7.
Perhaps GM will resolve the issues that have been noted by so many C7 owners with the new paint plant.
..
I don't know about other Porsche owners, but there is simply no comparison in the paint quality between my Porsche 981 and my Corvette C7.
The Porsche paint finish is far superior to the Corvette C7.
Perhaps GM will resolve the issues that have been noted by so many C7 owners with the new paint plant.
..
#185
16 Vettes and counting…..
That's BS in bold above.
Other than exotics, starting at over $200K, which are wet-sanded and buffed during the paint process at the factory, I've never seen any car from any manufacturer without orange peel. Porsche certainly has it too, perhaps less, but it's there.
I've owned 8 BMWs and several MBs in the last 20 years. Some were better than others, but they all had it as well.
Other than exotics, starting at over $200K, which are wet-sanded and buffed during the paint process at the factory, I've never seen any car from any manufacturer without orange peel. Porsche certainly has it too, perhaps less, but it's there.
I've owned 8 BMWs and several MBs in the last 20 years. Some were better than others, but they all had it as well.
Very true. The orange peel on my CLS was pretty bad, but the SL550 was a bit better. I do think Porsches have better paint than most.
I don't know why some people feel the need to $hit themselves over these German cars. They offer some wonderful qualities and features but ultimately, I find them devoid of character and completely unreliable. I've done my time with them and doubt I'd ever go back. They're really not all that special.
#186
#187
Melting Slicks
Some build quality changes I'd still like Corvette to accomplish:
Upgrade the buttons/switches
Audi knows this one. Every button has a satisfying 'click' when pressed, doesn't wobble, and every button in the car has the same characteristics. Worst offender in the C7 for me is the steering wheel controls. Creaky wobbly shitty D pads. And I have to use them all the time.
DIC responsiveness
It just feels cheap when you turn the selector dial and the display doesn't change between setting. Then you turn it again and it changes two settings instead of one in a slow,piecemeal way on the screen.
Interior materials
My wife's Infiniti QX60 has nicer leather than the 1LZ and 2LZ cars. Kind of disappointing.
Paint
It's not just orange peel. I have more paint chipping and lifting at panel gaps and edges than I've ever seen on any car I've ever had. Now that I have PPF on the car, I can't get it fixed without considerable out of pocket expense. Shitty.
Fortunately my 'like' list is much much longer. Despite these little ****les, it's my favorite car I've owned by a very wide margin.
One thing I always notice on the new P-cars is the wheel arches. They have perfectly shaped and spaced the wheel arch gaps to match the tires. I enjoy watching a new Porsche drive along and seeing a perfect 2" wheel gap all the way around the 21" wheels.
Upgrade the buttons/switches
Audi knows this one. Every button has a satisfying 'click' when pressed, doesn't wobble, and every button in the car has the same characteristics. Worst offender in the C7 for me is the steering wheel controls. Creaky wobbly shitty D pads. And I have to use them all the time.
DIC responsiveness
It just feels cheap when you turn the selector dial and the display doesn't change between setting. Then you turn it again and it changes two settings instead of one in a slow,piecemeal way on the screen.
Interior materials
My wife's Infiniti QX60 has nicer leather than the 1LZ and 2LZ cars. Kind of disappointing.
Paint
It's not just orange peel. I have more paint chipping and lifting at panel gaps and edges than I've ever seen on any car I've ever had. Now that I have PPF on the car, I can't get it fixed without considerable out of pocket expense. Shitty.
Fortunately my 'like' list is much much longer. Despite these little ****les, it's my favorite car I've owned by a very wide margin.
One thing I always notice on the new P-cars is the wheel arches. They have perfectly shaped and spaced the wheel arch gaps to match the tires. I enjoy watching a new Porsche drive along and seeing a perfect 2" wheel gap all the way around the 21" wheels.
Last edited by spearfish25; 02-21-2017 at 05:49 AM.
#188
What knocked it out for me was driving it over bad roads - that little Cayman S over bad roads made track mode on a Z51 feel like a luxury suspension. I couldn't live with the suspension on a daily basis. On good to great roads, the car was super tight and responsive - more-so than the vette, albeit no comparison for power. Exterior on the Porsche to me - boring vs the vette, exotic and beautiful.
I got super lucky and got a 2016 Z51 with absolutely no orange peel. I know this really varies from car to car. Hoping the paint issue is laid to rest in 2018. Every vette I've had has had rattles. To me, they come with vette ownership. Too bad - perhaps. But worth living with, with all the plusses that come with vette ownership - absofrickinlutely.
I got super lucky and got a 2016 Z51 with absolutely no orange peel. I know this really varies from car to car. Hoping the paint issue is laid to rest in 2018. Every vette I've had has had rattles. To me, they come with vette ownership. Too bad - perhaps. But worth living with, with all the plusses that come with vette ownership - absofrickinlutely.
I don't have the mag suspension, but the ride of the car is amazingly good, particularly in Touring mode. I'm continually astonished that a car with such large, aggressive low profile tires that handles so much like a race car can have a ride this comfortable. It really is a grand touring car, you could drive this coupe cross country and never feel beat up. The C6 was also that way, the C7 is just as good or better with respect to ride. I am impressed with the fit, finish and quality on this car.
Last edited by patentcad; 02-21-2017 at 10:32 AM.
#189
The paint on my 2014 Porsche Cayman 981 is like glass. No orange peel of any kind. The paint is perfect in quality.
I don't know about other Porsche owners, but there is simply no comparison in the paint quality between my Porsche 981 and my Corvette C7.
The Porsche paint finish is far superior to the Corvette C7.
Perhaps GM will resolve the issues that have been noted by so many C7 owners with the new paint plant.
..
I don't know about other Porsche owners, but there is simply no comparison in the paint quality between my Porsche 981 and my Corvette C7.
The Porsche paint finish is far superior to the Corvette C7.
Perhaps GM will resolve the issues that have been noted by so many C7 owners with the new paint plant.
..
I do doubt yours is a "perfect finish." I've never seen one of those.
It's hardest to see on light silver, especially in natural light, but I'm certain I could find some.
I've examined 1000s of cars including many P cars, and I've never failed to find OP under fluorescent lights. It's just endemic to today's environmentally friendly paints. The only way to avoid it entirely is both a body color and clear coat wet-sanding and buffing.
#190
Melting Slicks
I love the "Play-Skool" toy feel of the climate control *****.......they scream Chevy Spark whenever I turn them......but otherwise the C7 interior is a leap above what my C5 was....
Last edited by ersatz928; 02-21-2017 at 08:36 AM.
#191
The only production cars I've seen that have very little or no orange peel are Bentley, Rolls Royce, Aston Martin and, surprisingly, Viper. Though I haven't seen a Pagani or Bugatti in person, I imagine those cars have very little orange peel, as well. Honorable Mention goes to McLaren and Lamborghini, which have pretty nice paint finishes.
Porsche's paint finish, IMO, has less orange peel than Corvette's (overall), but I wouldn't quite place it with the cars I mentioned above. My Shark Grey C7's top surfaces have a pretty nice finish and little orange peel, but its side panels have noticeably more (not to mention some mold imperfections in the door panels).
Porsche's paint finish, IMO, has less orange peel than Corvette's (overall), but I wouldn't quite place it with the cars I mentioned above. My Shark Grey C7's top surfaces have a pretty nice finish and little orange peel, but its side panels have noticeably more (not to mention some mold imperfections in the door panels).
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Foosh (02-21-2017)
#192
Agreed, and speaking of mold-imperfections, I think a lot of people don't fully understand the Corvette finish imperfections, many mistaking it for OP. A lot of people are counting on the new BG paint shop to create perfect finishes, but I've heard nothing about how the mold imperfection issue is going to be addressed.
By this time next year, after enough new cars painted in the new shop have rolled out, I'm quite certain, there will still be considerable whining about the same issue.
Moreover, a dozen people can look at the same car, 4 will say it has a perfect finish with no OP, 4 will say it's OK, and 4 will say it's one of the worst finishes they've ever seen. Beauty is certainly in the eye of the beholder.
By this time next year, after enough new cars painted in the new shop have rolled out, I'm quite certain, there will still be considerable whining about the same issue.
Moreover, a dozen people can look at the same car, 4 will say it has a perfect finish with no OP, 4 will say it's OK, and 4 will say it's one of the worst finishes they've ever seen. Beauty is certainly in the eye of the beholder.
Last edited by Foosh; 02-21-2017 at 04:38 PM.
#193
Team Owner
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St. Jude Donor'15
Foosh, why are you so skeptical? You're assuming that there still be "considerable whinning about the same issue".
Why don't we wait to see what happens when the new paint shop opens up before we ridicule them without any knowledge or evidence as to what will come out of that new shop??
The constant negativity on this Forum amazes me......
Why don't we wait to see what happens when the new paint shop opens up before we ridicule them without any knowledge or evidence as to what will come out of that new shop??
The constant negativity on this Forum amazes me......
#194
#195
The knee-jerk defensiveness of fans of anything on the Internet amazes me. How is it 'negativity' to compare Corvette quality to that of other brands and then report back accurate impressions? Just because somebody observes that Porsche may have higher quality than GM doesn't mean that:
A.) You should burn them at the Corvette Forum Stake
or
B.) That they hate America
or
C.) They don't love Corvettes
Although this could make for a helluva Forum BBQ Event.
A.) You should burn them at the Corvette Forum Stake
or
B.) That they hate America
or
C.) They don't love Corvettes
Although this could make for a helluva Forum BBQ Event.
Last edited by Steve Garrett; 02-21-2017 at 09:23 PM. Reason: Merged Posts
#196
Le Mans Master
The knee-jerk defensiveness of fans of anything on the Internet amazes me. How is it 'negativity' to compare Corvette quality to that of other brands and then report back accurate impressions? Just because somebody observes that Porsche may have higher quality than GM doesn't mean that:
A.) You should burn them at the Corvette Forum Stake
or
B.) That they hate America
or
C.) They don't love Corvettes
A.) You should burn them at the Corvette Forum Stake
or
B.) That they hate America
or
C.) They don't love Corvettes
It's like comparing a Kia Optima to a mid level Audi.
If Chevy priced the Corvette $20-40k+ higher but added more quality parts, marterials, and better quality control they would face a huge backlash and many Corvette buyers would be priced into cheaper cars.
#197
Motortrend has a couple of good articles that touch on many of the pros / cons brought up in this thread:
2017 Grand Sport vs 2017 911 Carrera S:
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevr...911-carrera-s/
2011 ZR1 vs 2010 911 Turbo
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevr...bo-comparison/
A common theme is that the Porsche is flawless to a fault. It's precision and poise is undeniable, but it's this predictability that makes it somewhat less exciting when pushed to the limits. The Engineer in me respects and appreciates the precision of the Porsche build and driving experience. You can flog a Porsche in a wet surface corner with no fear of ever losing control, but the kid in me enjoys regaining control of the Corvette after it steps out and being "red-eyed, white-knuckled, and blue in the face over GM’s most powerful super-duper car." Even when two examples obtain similar lap times, they do it with very different personalities and style. One personality or style might appeal more to some than others and this is likely why this thread is still going after two years. Personally, I like them both in different ways. That's why I've alternated between Porsche and Corvette for the last several years and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.
2017 Grand Sport vs 2017 911 Carrera S:
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevr...911-carrera-s/
2011 ZR1 vs 2010 911 Turbo
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevr...bo-comparison/
A common theme is that the Porsche is flawless to a fault. It's precision and poise is undeniable, but it's this predictability that makes it somewhat less exciting when pushed to the limits. The Engineer in me respects and appreciates the precision of the Porsche build and driving experience. You can flog a Porsche in a wet surface corner with no fear of ever losing control, but the kid in me enjoys regaining control of the Corvette after it steps out and being "red-eyed, white-knuckled, and blue in the face over GM’s most powerful super-duper car." Even when two examples obtain similar lap times, they do it with very different personalities and style. One personality or style might appeal more to some than others and this is likely why this thread is still going after two years. Personally, I like them both in different ways. That's why I've alternated between Porsche and Corvette for the last several years and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.
#198
Foosh, why are you so skeptical? You're assuming that there still be "considerable whinning about the same issue".
Why don't we wait to see what happens when the new paint shop opens up before we ridicule them without any knowledge or evidence as to what will come out of that new shop??
The constant negativity on this Forum amazes me......
Why don't we wait to see what happens when the new paint shop opens up before we ridicule them without any knowledge or evidence as to what will come out of that new shop??
The constant negativity on this Forum amazes me......
You appear to have locked in on a limited point I made in response to another poster. The discussion was about all cars having OP, except for very high-end models that have undergone a very expensive manual surface and paint prep. It's fantasy to believe that you can produce that for anything close to the current price. The new paint plant won't be any more state-of-the-art than other more modern, mass-produced car plants already have, but it will catch BG up to the current state-of-the-art. There will still be OP, just less of it, as cars coming out of the most modern plants still have.
For the record, I'm perfectly happy with my C7 the way it is, complete w/ OP, a little panel waviness, and whatever other nits people constantly complain about here. I am totally satisfied I got my money's worth, and I love the car. I don't focus upon what I consider to be minor warts and consider it beautiful.
The point was some people are expecting miracles from the new paint shop for about the same money as the current cost of a C7. The GM PR machine is contributing to that. It probably will be a bit better. However, my prediction is that won't be enough to stop the whining, and I'm a long time industry observer. Every forum contains discussions of OP, even on what is currently considered the best.
I don't expect perfection, but I do know what it looks like, and I know what it costs. It would price the Corvette out of the bargain sports car market. I just don't need it.
Last edited by Foosh; 02-21-2017 at 11:55 PM.
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Steve Garrett (02-22-2017)
#199
That's BS in bold above.
Other than exotics, starting at over $200K, which are wet-sanded and buffed during the paint process at the factory, I've never seen any car from any manufacturer without orange peel. Porsche certainly has it too, perhaps less, but it's there.
I've owned 8 BMWs and several MBs in the last 20 years. Some were better than others, but they all had it as well.
Other than exotics, starting at over $200K, which are wet-sanded and buffed during the paint process at the factory, I've never seen any car from any manufacturer without orange peel. Porsche certainly has it too, perhaps less, but it's there.
I've owned 8 BMWs and several MBs in the last 20 years. Some were better than others, but they all had it as well.
My family has been driving GM vehicles and German cars ever since i was born. And as far as German cars go, i myself have owned a 528i, 650i and two C-classes(one is parked in my driveway next to my Suburban as i type). And not a single one of them had gap/aliment issues or orange peel. But yeah, what do i know, right?
That being said, the new C-classes are crap. They're put together far better than any American car i've owned(by far), but boy is it such a shitty car to drive.
oh and by the way, my vette is plagued with problems ... its not just those two things.
Last edited by T_B; 02-22-2017 at 12:00 AM.
#200
Well, what do I know? I've only owned 20-something German cars from 4 manufacturers (Audi, BMW, MB, and Porsche) since 1986, and every single one of them has had OP, some better, some worse. That makes your contention not credible. It is particularly non-credible when you say, "my buddies [sic] Z06 is clean as a whistle, no orange peel at all." There is no such thing as a C7 without OP, unless it's been stripped down to bare panels which are smoothed, repainted, wet sanded, and polished after both base and clear coats.
And yes, I also recognize Corvette warts as well as anyone. Many (1/3) of my German cars were also plagued with mechanical problems and two were lemon-lawed.
Yet, I absolutely love my C7, which happens to be mechanically perfect, surface warts and all.
And yes, I also recognize Corvette warts as well as anyone. Many (1/3) of my German cars were also plagued with mechanical problems and two were lemon-lawed.
Yet, I absolutely love my C7, which happens to be mechanically perfect, surface warts and all.
Last edited by Foosh; 02-22-2017 at 12:17 AM.