2014 Corvette Engine Damage
09-12-2014, 12:19 PM
#41
Safety Car
So far we know that both Z51 and base cars are involved.
And that some early failures were due to improper torque tube reinstallation.
Are the failures equally divided between manual and automatic trans cars?
Obviously the Car & Driver car had been run hard and not babied. After the engine blew on the track GM had to do some damage control. The "defective oil filter" story seems like a good excuse compared to admitting to an internal engine problem. I wouldn't worry about continuing to use the AC Delco oil filters...
And that some early failures were due to improper torque tube reinstallation.
Are the failures equally divided between manual and automatic trans cars?
Obviously the Car & Driver car had been run hard and not babied. After the engine blew on the track GM had to do some damage control. The "defective oil filter" story seems like a good excuse compared to admitting to an internal engine problem. I wouldn't worry about continuing to use the AC Delco oil filters...
09-12-2014, 02:40 PM
#44
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I understand your frustration, but why would it "never be right again?" It's not rocket science to rebuild or replace an engine. No carmaker, GM included, will simply replace entire cars due to warranty repairs because the owner doesn't want a repaired car. That's not even a reasonable request IMO.
I would expect some sort of compensation for the problems, but I seriously doubt GM is going to just replace the car. You can try and ask for it though.
09-12-2014, 02:49 PM
#46
Obviously the Car & Driver car had been run hard and not babied. After the engine blew on the track GM had to do some damage control. The "defective oil filter" story seems like a good excuse compared to admitting to an internal engine problem. I wouldn't worry about continuing to use the AC Delco oil filters...
Here in an image of the 2014 Lightning lap cars with the yellow Z51:
Here is the silver Z51 in the long term test fleet
Two different cars, both had engine failures.
Last edited by Gadfly; 09-12-2014 at 02:53 PM.
09-12-2014, 02:57 PM
#47
I understand your frustration, but why would it "never be right again?" It's not rocket science to rebuild or replace an engine. No carmaker, GM included, will simply replace entire cars due to warranty repairs because the owner doesn't want a repaired car. That's not even a reasonable request IMO.
Rods, pistons, cam, heads, etc.
09-12-2014, 03:06 PM
#49
Car and driver blew two engines, in two different cars. The engines in both the Silver Z51 in the long term test fleet, and the Yellow Z51 they used at lightning lap, both failed.
Here in an image of the 2014 Lightning lap cars with the yellow Z51:
Here is the silver Z51 in the long term test fleet
Two different cars, both had engine failures.
Here in an image of the 2014 Lightning lap cars with the yellow Z51:
Here is the silver Z51 in the long term test fleet
Two different cars, both had engine failures.
I am usually pretty good at finding information on the internet but have hit a blank on this.
Thanks Roger
09-12-2014, 03:11 PM
#50
There are two possible justifications for eliminating half the thrust bearing:
1. Saving some $$$$, probably a few dollars per engine, max.
2. Reducing internal drag to get the gas mileage higher.
Reason #2 is probably the justification for using a low pressure oil system, too. I wonder how that figures into all this.
I'm not buying the story about oil filters being the source of metal particles that lead to engine failure. I've seen the insides of at least a hundred light aircraft and automotive oil filters from several different manufacturers, and I've never seen anything that looks like it could break off or come loose AND get into the system.
I suppose there's a remote possibility a piece from the punching operation that makes the sleeve that supports the filter media could stick someplace, but by the time the parts of the filter are assembled, anything loose left over from the manufacturing processes would have been dealt with.
1. Saving some $$$$, probably a few dollars per engine, max.
2. Reducing internal drag to get the gas mileage higher.
Reason #2 is probably the justification for using a low pressure oil system, too. I wonder how that figures into all this.
I'm not buying the story about oil filters being the source of metal particles that lead to engine failure. I've seen the insides of at least a hundred light aircraft and automotive oil filters from several different manufacturers, and I've never seen anything that looks like it could break off or come loose AND get into the system.
I suppose there's a remote possibility a piece from the punching operation that makes the sleeve that supports the filter media could stick someplace, but by the time the parts of the filter are assembled, anything loose left over from the manufacturing processes would have been dealt with.
09-12-2014, 03:17 PM
#52
Can you please provide a source for your statement about Car and Driver burning up two engines. I have searched and cannot find anything about the Lighting Lap car losing an engine other than in Corvette Forum.
I am usually pretty good at finding information on the internet but have hit a blank on this.
Thanks Roger
I am usually pretty good at finding information on the internet but have hit a blank on this.
Thanks Roger
In the lightning lap article they also state the that the Yellow Z51 they were lapping also blew it's engine during the event.
Pictures are posted of the two cars, taken directly from Car and Driver magazine.
09-12-2014, 03:19 PM
#53
Car and driver blew two engines, in two different cars. The engines in both the Silver Z51 in the long term test fleet, and the Yellow Z51 they used at lightning lap, both failed.
Here in an image of the 2014 Lightning lap cars with the yellow Z51:
Here is the silver Z51 in the long term test fleet
Two different cars, both had engine failures.
Here in an image of the 2014 Lightning lap cars with the yellow Z51:
Here is the silver Z51 in the long term test fleet
Two different cars, both had engine failures.
09-12-2014, 03:33 PM
#54
09-12-2014, 03:37 PM
#55
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Another potential future problem is V4 mode "its a ticking bomb" Lexus is worried that after 100,000 or so miles, activated cylinders will have much greater wear and tear than deactivated ones in their new V8 engine.
09-12-2014, 03:52 PM
#56
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This certainly sounds feasible to me and would explain the failures under one umbrella rather than a series of unrelated issues.
Just sayin'
Just sayin'
I'm bringing over this information that I posted yesterday in the Tech/Performance section. I feel it is relevant to this thread as well.
Ed
I'm way more concerned about the thrust bearing failures that we're seeing.
The new 180 degree thrust bearing on number 3 main is a big concern for me.
Does anyone have insight as to why they made the switch from a 360 degree bearing that has been the industry standard for 100 years: with a history of very few failures for 100,000 mile engines .
This new bearing looks like a conventional main thrust bearing, but only has the thrust flanges on the half that is in the block. the #3 main bearing that resides in the cap does not have a flange to resist the thrust. This reduces the thrust bearing surface by 50%.
Any for & aft movement of the crankshaft will place stress on the connecting rods that can result in broken rods that will poke a hole in the block, similar to the few blown engines that have been reported here.
This reduced thrust surface absorption area can also account for the engine replacements due to improper installation of the torque tube causing damage to the thrust bearing.
I'm looking for a reasonable explanation for the switch to this 180 degree bearing style. All I can come up with is reduced friction to free up horsepower, but it's coming with a reliability price tag.
I want to add that the stress I mentioned on the connecting rods also applies to the pistons. This can result in scuffed piston skirts, and a probability of scored cylinder walls.
It is just my opinion, but I feel this foreign metal being claimed as coming from defective oil filters is in reality pieces from the damaged Thrust bearing.
I really hope this has been resolved before my car comes in. I thought the early problems had been fixed, but now as more miles are put on this pops up.
Again: just my opinion, but in no way would I feel the problem was fixed by replacing bearings if they are replaced with a similar design.
I know that I keep saying, "My opinion," but this is a forum to present ones ideas for discussion. Disagree with me if you do, but lets not allow it to go down the wrong path. No name calling please; just a rational discussion. I see too much of that here.
Ed
Ed
I'm way more concerned about the thrust bearing failures that we're seeing.
The new 180 degree thrust bearing on number 3 main is a big concern for me.
Does anyone have insight as to why they made the switch from a 360 degree bearing that has been the industry standard for 100 years: with a history of very few failures for 100,000 mile engines .
This new bearing looks like a conventional main thrust bearing, but only has the thrust flanges on the half that is in the block. the #3 main bearing that resides in the cap does not have a flange to resist the thrust. This reduces the thrust bearing surface by 50%.
Any for & aft movement of the crankshaft will place stress on the connecting rods that can result in broken rods that will poke a hole in the block, similar to the few blown engines that have been reported here.
This reduced thrust surface absorption area can also account for the engine replacements due to improper installation of the torque tube causing damage to the thrust bearing.
I'm looking for a reasonable explanation for the switch to this 180 degree bearing style. All I can come up with is reduced friction to free up horsepower, but it's coming with a reliability price tag.
I want to add that the stress I mentioned on the connecting rods also applies to the pistons. This can result in scuffed piston skirts, and a probability of scored cylinder walls.
It is just my opinion, but I feel this foreign metal being claimed as coming from defective oil filters is in reality pieces from the damaged Thrust bearing.
I really hope this has been resolved before my car comes in. I thought the early problems had been fixed, but now as more miles are put on this pops up.
Again: just my opinion, but in no way would I feel the problem was fixed by replacing bearings if they are replaced with a similar design.
I know that I keep saying, "My opinion," but this is a forum to present ones ideas for discussion. Disagree with me if you do, but lets not allow it to go down the wrong path. No name calling please; just a rational discussion. I see too much of that here.
Ed
09-12-2014, 04:06 PM
#58
Le Mans Master
Hate to see everyone panic. Here's the thing...this is a new engine and I don't care what kind of car you have with an internal combustion engine if you get a tiny piece of metal in your oil system and it migrates to the right spot I don't care if you're in a 2 million dollar car...you've got a bigass problem! 
When I bought my 99 I had plenty of people tell me "that new aluminum block is junk just like a Vega". And later when I got my 06 with a LS2 and an A6 people said I should beware. Now I only have 2800 miles on my C7 and hope there's no problem since I already changed the oil at 2500.. 
But if it craps out...well GM will fix it.
When I bought my 99 I had plenty of people tell me "that new aluminum block is junk just like a Vega". And later when I got my 06 with a LS2 and an A6 people said I should beware. Now I only have 2800 miles on my C7 and hope there's no problem since I already changed the oil at 2500.. But if it craps out...well GM will fix it.
09-12-2014, 04:06 PM
#59
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That makes absolutely no sense. Everything is still moving in all 8 cylinders, and movement is what causes wear.
That said, mine has over 3,000 miles, has never been in Economy mode and never will while I own it, so I'm not concerned.
09-12-2014, 04:09 PM
#60
Go read Car and Driver; They clearly state that the long term test Silver 2014 Z51 suffers and engine failure.
In the lightning lap article they also state the that the Yellow Z51 they were lapping also blew it's engine during the event.
Pictures are posted of the two cars, taken directly from Car and Driver magazine.
In the lightning lap article they also state the that the Yellow Z51 they were lapping also blew it's engine during the event.
Pictures are posted of the two cars, taken directly from Car and Driver magazine.
Regards
Roger