Blown up engine 5 month old Stingray
09-13-2014, 11:42 AM
#421
The way gm is handling this is dumb. Their cost to repair the car would be way less than what the bad publicity will cost them. They tout this car as a performance car and compare it to porsche etc. The C7 is great looking and fun car, but the fact that gm won't stand behind their halo car really bothers me. If I hadn't already purchased a 2015, this story would have made me taker a closer look at an m4
09-13-2014, 12:00 PM
#422
Le Mans Master
Thanks. So, I am not quoting facts because I can't remember where I read them, but I read an interview with someone from GM who said the vert (notwithstanding lack of rollbar) is not truly track ready as it does not have the cooling ducts on the rear quarters whether Z51 or not. I doubt GM was expecting A6's on a track (track, not dragstrip), and if not a Z51 there is the potential for oil starvation. None if this likely has anything to do with the issue at hand but food for thought if anyone has plans on tracking.
09-13-2014, 12:11 PM
#423
Race Director
09-13-2014, 12:17 PM
#424
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Sep 2007
Location: Mechanicsburg Pennsylvania
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And I'll ask again:
SNIP444 -
Can you please share with us 'the basis' GM is using to deny repair/replacement. In other words "We are not going to repair or replace your car because . . . . . .
SNIP444 -
Can you please share with us 'the basis' GM is using to deny repair/replacement. In other words "We are not going to repair or replace your car because . . . . . .
09-13-2014, 12:23 PM
#425
Race Director
From what I understand this was a driving school event, not a timed race. The OP stated the first few laps were around 50 mph. The failure occurred under 100 mph. The owner had the oil changed prior to, he did mention the engine seemed not to be running right. The dealer performed tests and stated he was good to go. For the proposed event the car was serviced appropriately?? He needs documentation off servicing and information provided customers of the driving school. I am afraid words were exchanged between owner, dealer and GM that added to the problem.
09-13-2014, 12:31 PM
#426
Melting Slicks
This is what I have been wondering as well, but as of yet have seen no answer to he question.
Factory fill is 5w-30, the owner's manual states that for "Track Events and Competitive Driving" the oil must be changed to 15w-50 or "engine damage may occur". Obviously, during a "Track Event" at higher rpms the thicker weight oil will maintain better oil pressure. This is particularly true when the temps are well into the 90's as they were at RRR that weekend.
It's conceivable that GM may be denying coverage based on the car not being switched over to 15w-50. Although that's just a guess.
S.
Factory fill is 5w-30, the owner's manual states that for "Track Events and Competitive Driving" the oil must be changed to 15w-50 or "engine damage may occur". Obviously, during a "Track Event" at higher rpms the thicker weight oil will maintain better oil pressure. This is particularly true when the temps are well into the 90's as they were at RRR that weekend.
It's conceivable that GM may be denying coverage based on the car not being switched over to 15w-50. Although that's just a guess.
S.
When I went to Spring Mountain for a level 2 class back in February I was going to put my car on the track the day after the class. I am a member at Spring Mountain and was looking forward to trying my own C7 on the track after the instruction. I asked the guy in charge of the C7 Corvettes if he thought I would be OK taking the car out for a few laps with the factory-fill 5w30 oil. He said NO WAY! This guy is in charge of the Spring Mountain C7 fleet and has close ties to Corvette engineering so I took his advice seriously and waited until I could do the "Track Prep" including changing the oil to 15w50 synthetic before tracking my car.
I know a couple of guys who have tracked their cars with 5w30 and not had a problem, but I did not want to take the chance.
Oil type may or may not have been a factor in this failure, but it is clear to any of us who may track our cars, we must do what the "track Prep" instructions say and document it in the event we have a failure.
09-13-2014, 01:32 PM
#428
Hello Snip,
Back in 2009, my 2007 Z06 blew its engine while on a race track at a HPDE event. I am a Canadian living on the west coast. It took GM Canada 8 weeks to tell me they will not repair my engine. They are doing the exact same thing to you right now. I took GM Canada to small claims court (maximum claim up to $25,000). They hired one of the highest price law firm in town to fight me. Many here on the forum were not supportive (too many GM fan boys here). It took two years and GM and I went thru settlement conferences, discoveries...etc. At the end, two weeks before the court date, they offered to settle out of court for a portion of what I was claiming. I was completely pissed at them by that time. I demanded every penny I asked for and two days before the court date, they settled for the full amount.
GM's argument was that I was using the car at the race track. My argument was that the event I attended was not a "race" or a "competition event" as worded in the warrantee document as exclusion. I also filed engineering reports prepared by myself (I am a registered professional engineer) which showed the engine suffered abnormal valve guide wear (I was the first person on this forum reported that defect, which is a common known problem now). I also filed the owner's manual as evidence that GM stated the car is capable to be "driven" on the race track since they recommended how to prepare the car for that application, which implies that driving on the race track is one of the intended usage of a Corvette.
As an older person (a bit younger than you) and an owner of my own business, I have had experience with the court system. In my opinion, it's not a winnable case for GM if an owner challenges them in court over their decision. They will try and stonewall you and hope to wear you out and settle out of court for a fraction of the damage you suffered. Don't let them do it. See a lawyer after the weekend.
Pick up the car and have a good shop do an assessment. If it's repairable, get it fixed and enjoy it. If it's not, sell it as a salvage and move on. Document everything, and fight GM to the end. And promise yourself not to buy another GM product again. That's what I did. Good luck, and if you need to get more info on my court case, private message me. I will give you my phone number if you want to talk.
Back in 2009, my 2007 Z06 blew its engine while on a race track at a HPDE event. I am a Canadian living on the west coast. It took GM Canada 8 weeks to tell me they will not repair my engine. They are doing the exact same thing to you right now. I took GM Canada to small claims court (maximum claim up to $25,000). They hired one of the highest price law firm in town to fight me. Many here on the forum were not supportive (too many GM fan boys here). It took two years and GM and I went thru settlement conferences, discoveries...etc. At the end, two weeks before the court date, they offered to settle out of court for a portion of what I was claiming. I was completely pissed at them by that time. I demanded every penny I asked for and two days before the court date, they settled for the full amount.
GM's argument was that I was using the car at the race track. My argument was that the event I attended was not a "race" or a "competition event" as worded in the warrantee document as exclusion. I also filed engineering reports prepared by myself (I am a registered professional engineer) which showed the engine suffered abnormal valve guide wear (I was the first person on this forum reported that defect, which is a common known problem now). I also filed the owner's manual as evidence that GM stated the car is capable to be "driven" on the race track since they recommended how to prepare the car for that application, which implies that driving on the race track is one of the intended usage of a Corvette.
As an older person (a bit younger than you) and an owner of my own business, I have had experience with the court system. In my opinion, it's not a winnable case for GM if an owner challenges them in court over their decision. They will try and stonewall you and hope to wear you out and settle out of court for a fraction of the damage you suffered. Don't let them do it. See a lawyer after the weekend.
Pick up the car and have a good shop do an assessment. If it's repairable, get it fixed and enjoy it. If it's not, sell it as a salvage and move on. Document everything, and fight GM to the end. And promise yourself not to buy another GM product again. That's what I did. Good luck, and if you need to get more info on my court case, private message me. I will give you my phone number if you want to talk.
09-13-2014, 01:39 PM
#429
Safety Car
Doctor,
I believe GM sees the FIRE as their ace in the hole, for denying doing anything for you.
I am thinking that they will do an engine replacement, with extra charges to jerry-rig the damaged electricals back together.
I'd dump the car as soon as feasible, and salvage the value best I could, then buy another one - then never ever go near a racetrack the rest of your life, unless you were going as a spectator.
You guys take heed of the doctor's learning experience that the insurance company is completely out once you set tire on the track or try to go off public roads in your Corvettes.
I believe GM sees the FIRE as their ace in the hole, for denying doing anything for you.
I am thinking that they will do an engine replacement, with extra charges to jerry-rig the damaged electricals back together.
I'd dump the car as soon as feasible, and salvage the value best I could, then buy another one - then never ever go near a racetrack the rest of your life, unless you were going as a spectator.
You guys take heed of the doctor's learning experience that the insurance company is completely out once you set tire on the track or try to go off public roads in your Corvettes.
09-13-2014, 02:10 PM
#430
Not go to a track. Yeah right.
Everyone knows or should know that regular car insurance is void while on a race track. The manual has explicit instructions on how to prepare the car for the track and says that if the instructions are not followed then the warranty may be voided. I will follow the instructions.
I don't want to wade through what seems like a thousand posts, so can someone pipe in and say whether it was a Z51 coupe? I'm not a Z51 fanboy and I don't say it is faster, but it is certainly more suitable for the track given the extra cooling and dry sump oil system. I recall it was an auto, so there's one strike.
And I will now take a fire extinguisher with me when I track.
Everyone knows or should know that regular car insurance is void while on a race track. The manual has explicit instructions on how to prepare the car for the track and says that if the instructions are not followed then the warranty may be voided. I will follow the instructions.
I don't want to wade through what seems like a thousand posts, so can someone pipe in and say whether it was a Z51 coupe? I'm not a Z51 fanboy and I don't say it is faster, but it is certainly more suitable for the track given the extra cooling and dry sump oil system. I recall it was an auto, so there's one strike.
And I will now take a fire extinguisher with me when I track.
Not true. "everybody knows or should know that regular car insurance is void while on the track." The OP didn't. So that's BS right there.
The manual said nothing about NOT tracking his C7. In fact the cars have Track Modes - So that's more BS.
You'll probably need a fire extinguisher - at the track. Why wouldn't you have one?
So, go blow (your) C7 engine with a fire at any track and get back to us with what GM / ins. will do for you?
Last edited by Skid Row Joe; 09-13-2014 at 02:22 PM.
09-13-2014, 02:19 PM
#431
Instructor
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This is the most entertaining thread on the forum. These posts get funnier as time goes on. I do sympathize with snip and I feel he will get his car repaired but I can't stop reading what is posted here. SO many experts, but isn't that what a Forum is for.
Last edited by gkgeiger; 09-13-2014 at 06:44 PM.
09-13-2014, 02:20 PM
#432
Are you serious??? If that happened to me I'd never buy another and I'd sue everyone involved including the dealership, GM, the service manager, the insurance agent (if there is an agent) for failure to disclose that the insurance doesn't cover tracked vehicles, and anyone else I could tie into this fiasco. Buy another?? That's comical.
09-13-2014, 02:49 PM
#433
Drifting
W O W.....to the OP i really hope you get this sorted out. If i was in your shoes and had the money, i would definitely be seeking legal council with ALL documented reciepts. This some
09-13-2014, 04:05 PM
#434
Safety Car
09-13-2014, 04:44 PM
#436
All valid points. The 'Track Mode' angle is totally a valid point, as well as the fact that we have the GM Corporate C7 Guru Tadge Juechter on video stating that warranty is in effect as long as you are tracking a z51. That said, I see too many exit doors for GM to take in not honoring tracked C7 warranties.
09-13-2014, 04:52 PM
#437
Team Owner
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St. Jude Donor '12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17
How much more speculation and wild-*** guessing can you people do? The OP has still not said why GM is denying warranty coverage. Without that we don't know squat about who's right or wrong. Would sure be nice if he told us that.
09-13-2014, 05:16 PM
#438
Race Director
Member Since: Sep 2013
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Tech Contributor
I don't see where we have the reason GM denied it.....ANYWHERE .....in all the posts....really would like to know why, I think that the crux of the situation....
09-13-2014, 05:37 PM
#439
Although open for interpretation, it is clearly intimated here.
In Post #394
In Post #394
To those of you who still don't believe my story. I wouldn't believe it either. It's unbelievable!! Yes, if you read the thread I've been talking with William R. "GM Customer Service" on the thread. He's been completely apologetic and totally worthless. My Ins. Co. Pointed out the clause in my policy that excluded their coverage the moment the tires touched the track (a few of you were right about this). The ins. Co. Can't believe though that GM isn't going to replace the car (due to the fire) under warrantee. Obviously neither can I. I was at the dealership two weeks before this happened and spoke with the service manager who told me I needed to have the oil changed and then "just go have fun". I asked him if there is anything else I needed to do before taking this course he said no! According to the dealership GM has made this denial decision without inspecting the computer or the engine or the oil or anything else but having an investigator come out to take pictures two weeks ago
09-13-2014, 05:45 PM
#440
Instructor
Until we know "why" everything is speculation. I hope snip444 posts that soon so we can get to the bottom of this.