VatorMan

I love when an "expert" shows up and then stick a foot in his mouth. Especially about road racing. Let's see, if I can shorten my braking zone , have less weight, that doesn't equate to better lap times ?
Keep talking Mr. Expert.

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...ic-brakes.html

Goaty

Can't post from iPhone but it's the Automobile mag article by Ezra Dyer posted 3/23. Quick line about it being faster then all the Mustangs, Camaro's, and the Stingray.

wolf8218

Ok, sorry I was off by about 7 pounds on the total Caliper+Rotor weight (depending on the car you're comparing to, Zr1 13 lbs vs Z06 26 lbs for the rotor, heavier caliper on the ZR1). whoopdi doo.

Also, have fun adding another 9k for brake parts, and another 3k for wheels & tires that actually fit those rotors. Your wallet's gonna be hurting!

My point is that the CC brakes are mainly to prevent brake fade, and by looking at some telemetry data, you can see for yourself that it wouldn't really make up a 10 second difference.

But in the end this doesn't really matter because none of this is OEM equipment on a Z51 or base car, so MSRP costs can't be compared.

have fun being a jerk/wrong on an internet forum.

Gmumd48

Since I live in Germany and test drove a test mule Z51 here before buying mine I asked about the ring time, and was told by the Corvette Cadillac Marketing Europe manager that they don't spend thousands of extra dollars on the ring times. When they were running the C7 they could not get a clean lap so when testing was over it was time to go home thats what they did. Often the conditions on one side of the course are different than the other
Rain/Fog Etc.

The theoretical number on the C-7 is is quite amazing if they added segment times which they do not do.

Suffice it to say the C7 is very quick on the ring.

gthal

Hmmm... so how can Automobile magazine comment on the C7 vs Z28 at the 'Ring if GM never got a clean lap? That's why my view is it is all speculation until GM gives a time and comments formally.

Having said that, it would not surprise if the Z28 and C7 were running very similar times and even if the Z28 was a smidge faster. The C7's goal has to be to be faster than a 911S and that it has accomplished.

Big Dan 427

Good memory, here it is.


http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...ro-z28-review/

Big Dan 427

In all fairness then why did they post the Z/28 when it too did not get a clean lap? Logic says if the 7 ran a good lap it would have been made public IMO.

mksz51

Pretty spot on for my views. The other point is this - some people on this Forum get REALLY wound up about stats / numbers / etc. It's almost like their life is better or worse if they have more cubic inches, a faster lap time, better 1/4 mile etc. on paper for the vehicle in their garage. They are living vicariously through an inanimate object. It's akin to my disdain for those who choose to take their NEW car to a car show and get all crazy about winning a plastic trophy mounted on a composite wood base that they could essentially just go buy. My opinion - that isn't competition. I really like my Corvette - love the looks, the power is super-fun, I have a Z51 and manual transmission (yet will likely never track the car), etc. and I feel good when I drive it. Does it define my life? Not even close - my work, family, and cycling (I race bicycles, that's my competition - before you poo-poo it try it and you'll see how REALLY hard that is) fill that role.

Again - all my opinion - and your results may vary. The biggest nagging thing about this entire thread is I think the OP is simply trolling for controversy. And that's the last I will say in this spew.

Atticus Alan

As someone who also races bikes (the non-motorized kind), I agree 100% with what's written here. Note too the link above to the excellent article on the Z/28; the reporter was a full 6 s slower than the professional drivers on the same track with the same car. So, even if (and when) the C7 Nürburgring lap times get released, very few people in the world will be able to equal such times in the C7 tuned the same way. I ride a bike (Felt F2) that would be at home in the Tour de France peloton, but I'm not deluded into thinking that I can keep up with Brad Wiggins, unless he wants to go really slow that day.

VADanno

Grassroots Motorsports Magazine has a great article this month about "Arrive and Drive" the Nurburgring. I don't plan to go this year (moose hunting Alaska is taking up two weeks of vacation), but look forward to hot lapping the course with an instructor in the future. I'd love to rent a C7, but will be happy with some other sports car.

This fall, the NCM Motorsports Park will be open. I am expecting at least one day of instruction will be included in museum delivery. The straight on the course looks like you will get within 10-15 MPH of top end. That should be a blast!

Big Dan 427

When can a test literally ever be the same? Everything from air temp, humidity, clouds or sun, wind speed and direction and even driver have an end result effect. It's like baseball records, the hitters don't face the same pitchers the same number of times b/c they play in different divisions and they also may play 81 games a year in a more friendly hitters park, so how do you evaluate the equality?

Well you think wrong! Maybe if you were there you could have some say but you weren't, you may have been out riding your bicycle I guess. Fact is you've added nothing to this thread expect to let us know you like to ride a bike, so your unprovoked attack of me is quite unnecessary. BTW car shows are normally revolved around charities and fund raisers and a lot of good people make great friendships there, you should try it sometime. No one here is making fun of your hobby now are they? I got to see this yesterday, and numerous other amazing vehicles.

JoesC5

Video I saw of the Z28 running at the 'Ring showed the Z28 running at 159 MPH with the wipers on. They posted a 7:37.47 time for the Z28. Video in lower right hand corner is the ZL1. Notice that it hit 172MPh with a 7:41.27 time.


In this video, the weather looks great for BOTH the C7 and the Z28. In one segment(2:20), you can see the C7 pass by the Camaro a few seconds after the Z28 goes by. They appear to be running at the same time, same weather, same track, etc

stevebz06

Taking individual performance tests doesn't always work in determining which car will be fastest around a track. Motor Trend pretty much proved that when they lapped the Z/28 faster than the 911 Turbo and GTR even though they easily beat the Camaro in straight line tests.

The Z/28 is obviously not intended for everybody, but it is impressive that they can get such a big car to hustle around a track so fast.

The Corvette should be faster than the Z/28, but it would be faster yet if it didn't weigh so damn much.

FLYNLO

No clue where you got this information. I don't know if Car and Driver is considered a trusted reference. But the Corvette braked from 70-0 in 142ft. The GTR....161ft. That is a significant difference!!

FLYNLO

But do any of the other cars have FLYING CAR MODE????!!!!

Zymurgy

And the Camaro has only a driver while the C7 has a driver AND a passenger. This video proves nothing as we don't have any idea what the circumstances were.

JoesC5

My post was for those apologist that keep saying the C7 didn't get in a good run, blah, blah, blah, due the track conditions, blah, blah, blah, weather, blah, blah, blah,,etc. The video I posted showed that BOTH the Z28 and the C7 were at the track at the same time, with the same track conditions, same weather, yet GM doesn't officially release the C7's time. They did release the Z28's times.

In the video showing the C7 hauling ***, I sure don't see a helmeted passenger in the right hand seat.

Even if they did a lap with a passenger in the C7, do you believe GM went to the expense to run the C7 at Nurburgring and only ran one lap(with a passenger, LOL) and then packed up and went home.

GM has even run the 2016 Cruze(with camo) at Nurburgring. GM has spent the money to run various cars at Nurburgring yet they don't disclose the C7's time. Interesting.

dcbingaman

The C7 has better 0-60 and quarter-mile times than the Z/28, it has better brakes and it is much lighter, stiffer and lower in drag (CD * projected area). Tires are probably a draw since the Michelins were tuned for the C7 and the Pirellis tuned for the Camaro. My guess is the C7 is faster around the ring when conditions are right. The conditions weren't right in 2013. They may be better in 2014. I'm still thinking 7:25 to 7:30 for the C7 and 7:10 or less for the Z06.

Zymurgy

Check out the 2:30 mark of your video. Clearly a passenger. Again, this video proves nothing. We do not know if this was filmed at the time they ran the Camaro timed lap or not. This could have been just some warm-up laps and the timed laps occurred later. Again, without knowing the circumstances the video proves nothing no matter how much you want it to. It is just some video clips with no context.

You are making all kinds of assumptions in an attempt to prove your point. I'm simply stating that the video proves nothing because it lacks context. Yes both cars are in the video and it certainly appears to be at the same time of day. Still, we don't know what they were actually doing at the particular time. No context.

Guibo

When you get the same cars from the different manufacturers together on the same day, using similar methods, and on a much shorter track, you can definitely weed out the variables that can influence lap times. Are there going to be lot of variables on a sunny day at a short infield road course in Nevada? Probably nothing compared to different days (or even hours) on the Nurburgring where different corners have varying dampness, surface temps, wind factors, etc.
I guess for baseball, you never really can evaluate the equality. Even if you know a certain record, how can you be 100% sure that the players in question weren't juiced? Some things never come to light until years later, if they come out at all.
To tie this into cycling, up until a couple of years ago, we'd all have to believe that Lance Armstrong was the best cyclist in the history of the Tour de France. This is a sport that employs rigorous testing and verification to try to ensure that athletes are clean, plus a nationalistic press that does its best to dig up dirt on foreign competitors; you can't really say the same for manufacturer-supplied 'Ring times.
It may be a point of corporate pride for GM to want the Corvette to be faster, but for a lot of people, the fact that a Corvette is faster or slower than a Camaro is merely an interesting bit of trivia and not much more than that. On a winding road from point A to B, the Corvette might be the more enjoyable car to drive. And for those who care, it might even be faster regardless of what the 'Ring times say. While the 'Ring is a great test of vehicle dynamics, and while it is closer to real-world driving roads than many smooth, flat tracks, the testing procedures used to establish these manufacturer times bear little resemblance to the way most customers will be driving them even at a brisk pace on their own local roads.