C7 Nurburgring time
12-02-2013, 05:33 PM
#201
Race Director
Of course they are. If they weren't and none of that mattered, everyone would just buy a Honda Fit and call it a day. Compared to others in the segment, the Miata and BRZ offer sport-car cred and good looks - and a definite element of "look at how cool I am". It's just that it is all happening in the economy subcompact segment.
I was not aware that you and Notch were so close that you know each other's dream car ( 
), but assuming this is the case, there are bragging rights for both, since each car fulfills its mission. The Vette, in whatever version, has always had the mission of world-beater at a manageable price. Win. The GT2 is the ultimate Porsche and is well into the exotic range against the likes of the 458 and so on. Different mission and different bragging rights. At least part of the Gt2 bragging rights are "look at what I could afford". Win also.
And when I refer to the horse being in front, I refer to performance, but I think you knew that. Fact remains that the Vette will usually win the performance game against cars considered its peers, for far less coin. This matters a lot to the Vette guys and very little to the Porsche guys, who can generally afford to spend more in which case it is more about conferring status. But I do find it very amusing when folks (and the C7 fanbois do this too) try to argue that performance does not matter when the entire sportscar segment is about just that.
Yes I do. They are both sportcars. One is a GT exotic and the other is an economy roadster. The Bentley would get laughed off the autocross course and the Miata would be laughed out of the Silver State Classic, but both are good at what they do.
The GT2 RS is just as fast as the ZR1, accelerates harder, holds a faster time by both manufacturer claim and Sport Auto supertest results (Cup results still AWOL for the ZR1), and costs much more. Not so sure "his horse" isn't out in front, by the criteria of bragging rights you've listed.
), but assuming this is the case, there are bragging rights for both, since each car fulfills its mission. The Vette, in whatever version, has always had the mission of world-beater at a manageable price. Win. The GT2 is the ultimate Porsche and is well into the exotic range against the likes of the 458 and so on. Different mission and different bragging rights. At least part of the Gt2 bragging rights are "look at what I could afford". Win also.And when I refer to the horse being in front, I refer to performance, but I think you knew that. Fact remains that the Vette will usually win the performance game against cars considered its peers, for far less coin. This matters a lot to the Vette guys and very little to the Porsche guys, who can generally afford to spend more in which case it is more about conferring status. But I do find it very amusing when folks (and the C7 fanbois do this too) try to argue that performance does not matter when the entire sportscar segment is about just that.
A Bentley murders a Miata by just about every metric of bragging rights you've described, but between them I'd say only one of them is a true sports car. Do you disagree?
Last edited by TTRotary; 12-02-2013 at 05:41 PM.
12-02-2013, 06:00 PM
#202
I seriously doubt a Miata or FR-S are about bragging rights.
The GT2 RS is just as fast as the ZR1, accelerates harder, holds a faster time by both manufacturer claim and Sport Auto supertest results (Cup results still AWOL for the ZR1), and costs much more. Not so sure "his horse" isn't out in front, by the criteria of bragging rights you've listed.
A Bentley murders a Miata by just about every metric of bragging rights you've described, but between them I'd say only one of them is a true sports car. Do you disagree?
The GT2 RS is just as fast as the ZR1, accelerates harder, holds a faster time by both manufacturer claim and Sport Auto supertest results (Cup results still AWOL for the ZR1), and costs much more. Not so sure "his horse" isn't out in front, by the criteria of bragging rights you've listed.
A Bentley murders a Miata by just about every metric of bragging rights you've described, but between them I'd say only one of them is a true sports car. Do you disagree?
If the ZR1 was in first gear...it would have had obliterated that Porsche totally.
As for the bold part...Sport Auto says it all.
Last edited by Lavender; 12-02-2013 at 06:03 PM.
12-02-2013, 06:36 PM
#203
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Of course I understand "bragging". I even engaged in it when I was young and didn't know any better.
Pretty juvenile behavior...
Pretty juvenile behavior...
12-02-2013, 06:39 PM
#204
Race Director
So you consider the entire automobile industry to be juvenile? Which, by the way, would include you, since you are clearly a gearhead who is obsessed with performance statistics...
Not much of an argument you are peddling.
Not much of an argument you are peddling.
12-02-2013, 06:43 PM
#205
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12-02-2013, 06:45 PM
#206
Race Director
Besides, most car marketing consists of bragging about performance stats, so you see, they do brag.
Last edited by TTRotary; 12-02-2013 at 06:54 PM.
12-02-2013, 06:48 PM
#207
Scraping the splitter.
12-02-2013, 06:50 PM
#208
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No, I'm not obsessed with performance statistics. If you examine my past posts on this forum you'll see that I don't give a flip about lap times.
12-02-2013, 06:52 PM
#210
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12-02-2013, 07:55 PM
#211
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No, there are places where incomplete sentences are appropriate.
Rule four here --> http://problogservice.com/2011/06/17...owed-to-break/
Rule four here --> http://problogservice.com/2011/06/17...owed-to-break/
12-02-2013, 08:02 PM
#212
Of course they are. If they weren't and none of that mattered, everyone would just buy a Honda Fit and call it a day. Compared to others in the segment, the Miata and BRZ offer sport-car cred and good looks - and a definite element of "look at how cool I am". It's just that it is all happening in the economy subcompact segment.
You don't know that it's about saying "look at how cool (or good) that car looks." You've never admired the beauty of a car without ever contemplating one bit about whether the owner is "cool" or whether he's a giant d-bag?
I was not aware that you and Notch were so close that you know each other's dream car ( ), but assuming this is the case, there are bragging rights for both, since each car fulfills its mission. The Vette, in whatever version, has always had the mission of world-beater at a manageable price. Win. The GT2 is the ultimate Porsche and is well into the exotic range against the likes of the 458 and so on. Different mission and different bragging rights. At least part of the Gt2 bragging rights are "look at what I could afford". Win also.
), but assuming this is the case, there are bragging rights for both, since each car fulfills its mission. The Vette, in whatever version, has always had the mission of world-beater at a manageable price. Win. The GT2 is the ultimate Porsche and is well into the exotic range against the likes of the 458 and so on. Different mission and different bragging rights. At least part of the Gt2 bragging rights are "look at what I could afford". Win also.Not sure what is so worthy of bragging about being at a manageable price. By that metric, the BRZ has got them all beat. If you are saying "different mission and different bragging rights," then there can be no winner between them, and if there isn't any, then what is there to brag about?
So you are saying a sports car can only be determined by whether it is on an autocross course or out on the Silver State Classic?
12-02-2013, 08:03 PM
#213
Melting Slicks
No, there are places where incomplete sentences are appropriate.
Rule four here --> http://problogservice.com/2011/06/17...owed-to-break/
Rule four here --> http://problogservice.com/2011/06/17...owed-to-break/
12-02-2013, 08:41 PM
#214
Some obscure Japan mag did a roll race between a GT2 RS and a ZR1 from a 50kph!! (ZR1 was in 2nd gear.....) and it easily pulled the Porsche.
If the ZR1 was in first gear...it would have had obliterated that Porsche totally.
As for the bold part...Sport Auto says it all.
If the ZR1 was in first gear...it would have had obliterated that Porsche totally.
As for the bold part...Sport Auto says it all.
While you're at it, tell me which car was faster on the racetrack, GT2 RS or LFA.It's not just Sport Auto. Check the C&D acceleration result:
GT2 RS vs ZR1, 0-150: 14.4 sec vs 16.4
Motor Trend (same day)
non-RS GT2 vs ZR1, 200-300 kph: 25.1 vs 25.2
Auto Motor und Sport
GT2 RS, 200-300: 20.9
In that same AMuS test, the GT2 RS blitzed the 458 to 300 kph, 31.3s vs 34.0. In the R&T same-day test between the ZR1 and 458, the Ferrari trapped in 10.9 @ 132.5 vs the ZR1's 11.4 @ 129.7. There's really no way the ZR1 is going to outaccelerate the GT2 RS.
12-02-2013, 09:51 PM
#215
I'm thinking this thread has run it's course 
12-02-2013, 10:27 PM
#219
And did you catch the comments about that video? There were apparently issues with the GT2's gearbox. Tell me which car was faster on the racetrack. While you're at it, tell me which car was faster on the racetrack, GT2 RS or LFA.
It's not just Sport Auto. Check the C&D acceleration result:
GT2 RS vs ZR1, 0-150: 14.4 sec vs 16.4
Motor Trend (same day)
non-RS GT2 vs ZR1, 200-300 kph: 25.1 vs 25.2
Auto Motor und Sport
GT2 RS, 200-300: 20.9
In that same AMuS test, the GT2 RS blitzed the 458 to 300 kph, 31.3s vs 34.0. In the R&T same-day test between the ZR1 and 458, the Ferrari trapped in 10.9 @ 132.5 vs the ZR1's 11.4 @ 129.7. There's really no way the ZR1 is going to outaccelerate the GT2 RS.
While you're at it, tell me which car was faster on the racetrack, GT2 RS or LFA.It's not just Sport Auto. Check the C&D acceleration result:
GT2 RS vs ZR1, 0-150: 14.4 sec vs 16.4
Motor Trend (same day)
non-RS GT2 vs ZR1, 200-300 kph: 25.1 vs 25.2
Auto Motor und Sport
GT2 RS, 200-300: 20.9
In that same AMuS test, the GT2 RS blitzed the 458 to 300 kph, 31.3s vs 34.0. In the R&T same-day test between the ZR1 and 458, the Ferrari trapped in 10.9 @ 132.5 vs the ZR1's 11.4 @ 129.7. There's really no way the ZR1 is going to outaccelerate the GT2 RS.
You really have absolutely no clue whatsoever about what the hell you are talking about. Seriously
562hp @ 3300 lbs(roughly)..are not going to trap 132.5 while 638hp @ 3300lbs (roughly) traps 129.7. EVER.
Second...there were issues with the syncros while they were doing laps `round the track.
Third...I remember reading that C&D test. Why was there no 1/4 mile time posted for the ZR1? It was like Porsche Porsche Porsche and oh wait..its 2 sec faster than a ZR1? Thats interesting...isn't it?
And so now the GT2 RS is only .2 faster to 300kph than my GT2 with "90" more hp and couple hundred lbs less? Damn I didnt know my car was that fast.
Last edited by Lavender; 12-02-2013 at 10:45 PM.
