Corvette c7 stingray: Driven
11-20-2013, 08:49 AM
#1
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11-20-2013, 10:01 AM
#2
Interesting article... and based on the details in the written body, not the pics, it looks like he test drove a base automatic (no Z51, no NPP) but was really wishing instead he was provided one with all the bells & whistles. Some excerpts from the author:
"And then GM delivered one with an automatic transmission. Way to poop the party, Mr General. Or maybe they just heard I couldn't, how do you say it, shift stick? This did at least give me the chance to confirm that you should only order an automatic Corvette if you cannot operate a clutch pedal.
And this is base Corvette, a car with 455hp and 460lb ft in standard US spec. Even with the silly slushbox, it's very, very fast on the road. The brakes are a touch over-sensitive and perfectly good for road use, but as we'll discuss in a minute, they weren't so good on track.
On the track this base version with its blipping auto 'box didn't show quite as well. The brakes couldn't handle much sustained lapping, and whereas I'd been happy with the electronic dampers set to Touring on the road, the Track setting was too stiff even for the flat turns of Chuckwalla circuit. In Sport matters were better.
You have to be patient with the C7. Get greedy with entry speed and it will either plough forward or want to rotate quite alarmingly when you back-off the throttle. When you find the sweet spot - and it's quite narrow- the 'vette is fast and rewarding. It'll oversteer on demand, but it can be hard to bring the car back into a straight line smoothly. Traction is okay, nothing more. And whereas the rear axle feels much more sophisticated on the road, this base version with a normal locking diff (the Z51 pack standard in Europe has an active locking unit) can feel a little loose at the rear when you push hard. Like the bushings are all a bit too compliant. I suppose it is a road car."
"And then GM delivered one with an automatic transmission. Way to poop the party, Mr General. Or maybe they just heard I couldn't, how do you say it, shift stick? This did at least give me the chance to confirm that you should only order an automatic Corvette if you cannot operate a clutch pedal.
And this is base Corvette, a car with 455hp and 460lb ft in standard US spec. Even with the silly slushbox, it's very, very fast on the road. The brakes are a touch over-sensitive and perfectly good for road use, but as we'll discuss in a minute, they weren't so good on track.
On the track this base version with its blipping auto 'box didn't show quite as well. The brakes couldn't handle much sustained lapping, and whereas I'd been happy with the electronic dampers set to Touring on the road, the Track setting was too stiff even for the flat turns of Chuckwalla circuit. In Sport matters were better.
You have to be patient with the C7. Get greedy with entry speed and it will either plough forward or want to rotate quite alarmingly when you back-off the throttle. When you find the sweet spot - and it's quite narrow- the 'vette is fast and rewarding. It'll oversteer on demand, but it can be hard to bring the car back into a straight line smoothly. Traction is okay, nothing more. And whereas the rear axle feels much more sophisticated on the road, this base version with a normal locking diff (the Z51 pack standard in Europe has an active locking unit) can feel a little loose at the rear when you push hard. Like the bushings are all a bit too compliant. I suppose it is a road car."
11-20-2013, 12:14 PM
#3
Interesting article... and based on the details in the written body, not the pics, it looks like he test drove a base automatic (no Z51, no NPP) but was really wishing instead he was provided one with all the bells & whistles. Some excerpts from the author:
"And then GM delivered one with an automatic transmission. Way to poop the party, Mr General. Or maybe they just heard I couldn't, how do you say it, shift stick? This did at least give me the chance to confirm that you should only order an automatic Corvette if you cannot operate a clutch pedal.
And this is base Corvette, a car with 455hp and 460lb ft in standard US spec. Even with the silly slushbox, it's very, very fast on the road. The brakes are a touch over-sensitive and perfectly good for road use, but as we'll discuss in a minute, they weren't so good on track.
On the track this base version with its blipping auto 'box didn't show quite as well. The brakes couldn't handle much sustained lapping, and whereas I'd been happy with the electronic dampers set to Touring on the road, the Track setting was too stiff even for the flat turns of Chuckwalla circuit. In Sport matters were better.
You have to be patient with the C7. Get greedy with entry speed and it will either plough forward or want to rotate quite alarmingly when you back-off the throttle. When you find the sweet spot - and it's quite narrow- the 'vette is fast and rewarding. It'll oversteer on demand, but it can be hard to bring the car back into a straight line smoothly. Traction is okay, nothing more. And whereas the rear axle feels much more sophisticated on the road, this base version with a normal locking diff (the Z51 pack standard in Europe has an active locking unit) can feel a little loose at the rear when you push hard. Like the bushings are all a bit too compliant. I suppose it is a road car."
"And then GM delivered one with an automatic transmission. Way to poop the party, Mr General. Or maybe they just heard I couldn't, how do you say it, shift stick? This did at least give me the chance to confirm that you should only order an automatic Corvette if you cannot operate a clutch pedal.
And this is base Corvette, a car with 455hp and 460lb ft in standard US spec. Even with the silly slushbox, it's very, very fast on the road. The brakes are a touch over-sensitive and perfectly good for road use, but as we'll discuss in a minute, they weren't so good on track.
On the track this base version with its blipping auto 'box didn't show quite as well. The brakes couldn't handle much sustained lapping, and whereas I'd been happy with the electronic dampers set to Touring on the road, the Track setting was too stiff even for the flat turns of Chuckwalla circuit. In Sport matters were better.
You have to be patient with the C7. Get greedy with entry speed and it will either plough forward or want to rotate quite alarmingly when you back-off the throttle. When you find the sweet spot - and it's quite narrow- the 'vette is fast and rewarding. It'll oversteer on demand, but it can be hard to bring the car back into a straight line smoothly. Traction is okay, nothing more. And whereas the rear axle feels much more sophisticated on the road, this base version with a normal locking diff (the Z51 pack standard in Europe has an active locking unit) can feel a little loose at the rear when you push hard. Like the bushings are all a bit too compliant. I suppose it is a road car."
The first bolded statement implies that the car has MSRC, which is only available with the Z51 package (at least in the US). Without MSRC, there are no "electronic dampers" and they don't change with the Driver Mode and would just be fixed dampers.
The second bolded statement implies that it has the standard LSD without the variable lock.
11-20-2013, 12:17 PM
#4
These two bolded statements seem to contradict one another.
The first bolded statement implies that the car has MSRC, which is only available with the Z51 package (at least in the US). Without MSRC, there are no "electronic dampers" and they don't change with the Driver Mode and would just be fixed dampers.
The second bolded statement implies that it has the standard LSD without the variable lock.
The first bolded statement implies that the car has MSRC, which is only available with the Z51 package (at least in the US). Without MSRC, there are no "electronic dampers" and they don't change with the Driver Mode and would just be fixed dampers.
The second bolded statement implies that it has the standard LSD without the variable lock.
11-20-2013, 12:26 PM
#6
Said steering was too soft. I dont think he check the settings to see if it was in auto selet or stuck in a mode like touring.
Brakes couldnt handle sustained lapping because they didnt put on the cooling rings I am sure.
GM designed holes on the rotor hat so the brakes can hold heat for the road to stop good on the street. Cooling rings are needed for the track. I am certain they were not on
Brakes couldnt handle sustained lapping because they didnt put on the cooling rings I am sure.
GM designed holes on the rotor hat so the brakes can hold heat for the road to stop good on the street. Cooling rings are needed for the track. I am certain they were not on
11-20-2013, 01:10 PM
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11-20-2013, 01:31 PM
#8
While I agree he's confusing on the configuration of the car, he's no hack. Just look on youtube for "Chris Harris Drive," or check his name on google with the following terms:
F1
WRC
962
Nurburgring
McLaren 12C GT3
He's probably driven far more sports cars than just about anyone on these forums, and has actually competed in 24 hour races and rallies. Unlike some "hacks," he doesn't pull punches, having called out Ferrari for its paranoid media micromanagement (and receiving a consequent test ban from Maranello for speaking his mind).
F1
WRC
962
Nurburgring
McLaren 12C GT3
He's probably driven far more sports cars than just about anyone on these forums, and has actually competed in 24 hour races and rallies. Unlike some "hacks," he doesn't pull punches, having called out Ferrari for its paranoid media micromanagement (and receiving a consequent test ban from Maranello for speaking his mind).
11-20-2013, 04:01 PM
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Interesting article. It seems to me like perhaps he drive multiple cars (at least two). It sounds like he drove a Z51/MRC/NPP car on the road, and then a base car on the track, and perhaps a Z51 car on the track as well. But yeah, he should have been more clear about that.
11-20-2013, 04:10 PM
#10
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"The Corvette is all about context - always has been. It is one of the worst automotive tourists in that it travels about as well as cheap Provencale wine. In the US, on smooth sunshine state roads, with cheap gasoline and a bargain sticker price, it's sometimes hard to imagine what more Chevrolet could offer for the money. On a wet, bumpy UK B-road, with a price adjusted for import, the 'vette has always been the preserve of the committed few. Or the few that need committing, depending on your viewpoint."
That being said, he was relatively complimentary, even though the review seemed rather shallow to me.
And honestly, the Brits need to get over this "I'd want to try one on a troublesome English B-road before writing a cheque" attitude. I've driven all over GB on routes that included mostly B-roads, and (thanks to early retirement) I've had the good fortune to drive on challenging and scenic roads all over America. Good grief, they act like every B-road is a the offspring of a WRC course and the Nürburgring. They're not.
As always, JMHO
Rat
11-20-2013, 04:55 PM
#11
He's an automotive journalist, I didn't see any mention of competition driving in his bio. Entering into it with the typical European "anything American is trash" attitude doesn't help:
"The Corvette is all about context - always has been. It is one of the worst automotive tourists in that it travels about as well as cheap Provencale wine. In the US, on smooth sunshine state roads, with cheap gasoline and a bargain sticker price, it's sometimes hard to imagine what more Chevrolet could offer for the money. On a wet, bumpy UK B-road, with a price adjusted for import, the 'vette has always been the preserve of the committed few. Or the few that need committing, depending on your viewpoint."
That being said, he was relatively complimentary, even though the review seemed rather shallow to me.
And honestly, the Brits need to get over this "I'd want to try one on a troublesome English B-road before writing a cheque" attitude. I've driven all over GB on routes that included mostly B-roads, and (thanks to early retirement) I've had the good fortune to drive on challenging and scenic roads all over America. Good grief, they act like every B-road is a the offspring of a WRC course and the Nürburgring. They're not.
As always, JMHO
Rat
"The Corvette is all about context - always has been. It is one of the worst automotive tourists in that it travels about as well as cheap Provencale wine. In the US, on smooth sunshine state roads, with cheap gasoline and a bargain sticker price, it's sometimes hard to imagine what more Chevrolet could offer for the money. On a wet, bumpy UK B-road, with a price adjusted for import, the 'vette has always been the preserve of the committed few. Or the few that need committing, depending on your viewpoint."
That being said, he was relatively complimentary, even though the review seemed rather shallow to me.
And honestly, the Brits need to get over this "I'd want to try one on a troublesome English B-road before writing a cheque" attitude. I've driven all over GB on routes that included mostly B-roads, and (thanks to early retirement) I've had the good fortune to drive on challenging and scenic roads all over America. Good grief, they act like every B-road is a the offspring of a WRC course and the Nürburgring. They're not.
As always, JMHO
Rat
http://www.worldcarfans.com/11005242...at-nurburgring
He placed 20th in 2011:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_24...C3%BCrburgring
Some rally coverage:
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/mo...-gb-class-lead
He's also done some of the VLN enduros leading up to the N24. You'd be hard pressed to find another journalist who's driven what he has. If he were a complete nobody, with no reach nor standing in the automotive world, would Ferrari had cared enough to ban him?
He was very complimentary about the C7 on many things. But his point about context makes sense. The ZR1, for example, was given rave road reviews in the US, but in the UK and Europe, there were harsher criticisms about its road manners. Just about all of the Brit mags (Evo, Car, Autocar) were highly complimentary of the Ford GT, which went on to win COTY, beating out Ferrari, Porsche, and BMW (whose 1-Series pretty much eliminated itself due to too harsh a ride, practically bouncing clean off the road), so it's not an "anything American is trash" attitude that they've adopted. They're looking for the traits that suit their style of driving more of the time. In the past, Audis (especially those with S Line sports suspension) have come under criticism for poor reviews in the UK, so it's not just an anti-American thing. (Audi not only now does chassis testing in the UK, but they've developed a modeling system designed around their roads, with the mentality that if it rides well there, it should ride well pretty much anywhere.)
As for it being a shallow test, that's probably what the follow up comparison is for.
Last edited by Guibo; 11-20-2013 at 05:10 PM.
11-20-2013, 05:31 PM
#12
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Again, JMHO
Rat
11-20-2013, 05:37 PM
#13
Drifting
He's an automotive journalist, I didn't see any mention of competition driving in his bio. Entering into it with the typical European "anything American is trash" attitude doesn't help:
"The Corvette is all about context - always has been. It is one of the worst automotive tourists in that it travels about as well as cheap Provencale wine. In the US, on smooth sunshine state roads, with cheap gasoline and a bargain sticker price, it's sometimes hard to imagine what more Chevrolet could offer for the money. On a wet, bumpy UK B-road, with a price adjusted for import, the 'vette has always been the preserve of the committed few. Or the few that need committing, depending on your viewpoint."
That being said, he was relatively complimentary, even though the review seemed rather shallow to me.
And honestly, the Brits need to get over this "I'd want to try one on a troublesome English B-road before writing a cheque" attitude. I've driven all over GB on routes that included mostly B-roads, and (thanks to early retirement) I've had the good fortune to drive on challenging and scenic roads all over America. Good grief, they act like every B-road is a the offspring of a WRC course and the Nürburgring. They're not.
As always, JMHO
Rat
"The Corvette is all about context - always has been. It is one of the worst automotive tourists in that it travels about as well as cheap Provencale wine. In the US, on smooth sunshine state roads, with cheap gasoline and a bargain sticker price, it's sometimes hard to imagine what more Chevrolet could offer for the money. On a wet, bumpy UK B-road, with a price adjusted for import, the 'vette has always been the preserve of the committed few. Or the few that need committing, depending on your viewpoint."
That being said, he was relatively complimentary, even though the review seemed rather shallow to me.
And honestly, the Brits need to get over this "I'd want to try one on a troublesome English B-road before writing a cheque" attitude. I've driven all over GB on routes that included mostly B-roads, and (thanks to early retirement) I've had the good fortune to drive on challenging and scenic roads all over America. Good grief, they act like every B-road is a the offspring of a WRC course and the Nürburgring. They're not.
As always, JMHO
Rat
11-20-2013, 05:57 PM
#14
Gently slapping another marque...That BMW finished in 9th place among the "affordable" group. That's six places behind the Roush Mustang, and beaten by the Subaru Forester STi. Pretty appalling, considering the 1-Series was touted as a return to BMW's driver-oriented roots after the 3-Series had bloated.
11-20-2013, 06:42 PM
#15
Burning Brakes
Interesting article... and based on the details in the written body, not the pics, it looks like he test drove a base automatic (no Z51, no NPP) but was really wishing instead he was provided one with all the bells & whistles. Some excerpts from the author:
"And then GM delivered one with an automatic transmission. Way to poop the party, Mr General. Or maybe they just heard I couldn't, how do you say it, shift stick? This did at least give me the chance to confirm that you should only order an automatic Corvette if you cannot operate a clutch pedal.
And this is base Corvette, a car with 455hp and 460lb ft in standard US spec. Even with the silly slushbox, it's very, very fast on the road. The brakes are a touch over-sensitive and perfectly good for road use, but as we'll discuss in a minute, they weren't so good on track.
On the track this base version with its blipping auto 'box didn't show quite as well. The brakes couldn't handle much sustained lapping, and whereas I'd been happy with the electronic dampers set to Touring on the road, the Track setting was too stiff even for the flat turns of Chuckwalla circuit. In Sport matters were better.
You have to be patient with the C7. Get greedy with entry speed and it will either plough forward or want to rotate quite alarmingly when you back-off the throttle. When you find the sweet spot - and it's quite narrow- the 'vette is fast and rewarding. It'll oversteer on demand, but it can be hard to bring the car back into a straight line smoothly. Traction is okay, nothing more. And whereas the rear axle feels much more sophisticated on the road, this base version with a normal locking diff (the Z51 pack standard in Europe has an active locking unit) can feel a little loose at the rear when you push hard. Like the bushings are all a bit too compliant. I suppose it is a road car."
"And then GM delivered one with an automatic transmission. Way to poop the party, Mr General. Or maybe they just heard I couldn't, how do you say it, shift stick? This did at least give me the chance to confirm that you should only order an automatic Corvette if you cannot operate a clutch pedal.
And this is base Corvette, a car with 455hp and 460lb ft in standard US spec. Even with the silly slushbox, it's very, very fast on the road. The brakes are a touch over-sensitive and perfectly good for road use, but as we'll discuss in a minute, they weren't so good on track.
On the track this base version with its blipping auto 'box didn't show quite as well. The brakes couldn't handle much sustained lapping, and whereas I'd been happy with the electronic dampers set to Touring on the road, the Track setting was too stiff even for the flat turns of Chuckwalla circuit. In Sport matters were better.
You have to be patient with the C7. Get greedy with entry speed and it will either plough forward or want to rotate quite alarmingly when you back-off the throttle. When you find the sweet spot - and it's quite narrow- the 'vette is fast and rewarding. It'll oversteer on demand, but it can be hard to bring the car back into a straight line smoothly. Traction is okay, nothing more. And whereas the rear axle feels much more sophisticated on the road, this base version with a normal locking diff (the Z51 pack standard in Europe has an active locking unit) can feel a little loose at the rear when you push hard. Like the bushings are all a bit too compliant. I suppose it is a road car."
11-20-2013, 06:49 PM
#16
Le Mans Master
While I agree he's confusing on the configuration of the car, he's no hack. Just look on youtube for "Chris Harris Drive," or check his name on google with the following terms:
F1
WRC
962
Nurburgring
McLaren 12C GT3
He's probably driven far more sports cars than just about anyone on these forums, and has actually competed in 24 hour races and rallies. Unlike some "hacks," he doesn't pull punches, having called out Ferrari for its paranoid media micromanagement (and receiving a consequent test ban from Maranello for speaking his mind).
F1
WRC
962
Nurburgring
McLaren 12C GT3
He's probably driven far more sports cars than just about anyone on these forums, and has actually competed in 24 hour races and rallies. Unlike some "hacks," he doesn't pull punches, having called out Ferrari for its paranoid media micromanagement (and receiving a consequent test ban from Maranello for speaking his mind).
11-20-2013, 06:50 PM
#17
Melting Slicks
The pics show what looks to be a CG Z51 with rev match paddles, the write up is a non-Z51 A6, one of the first I've seen for that spec so its kind of interesting. By the looks of it all, he did a separate test comparing a Z51 to a 991 which he's going to let out of the bag later on and the pics are from that test. Hopefully he'll be a little more organized when letting us know how that went.
11-21-2013, 01:54 AM
#18
Not my buddy, and you don't need to qualify your sentence with "maybe he knows how to drive." He definitely knows how to drive and would run circles around you like crazy. You don't get asked by the Porsche factory to compete in the N24, nor do you get to drive an F1 car, nor do you get to drive Ford's works WRC rally car, nor do you get to drive the Nissan Deltawing, nor do you get asked by an F40 and F50 owner to wring out both cars if you only "maybe" know how to drive. You say he's a "hack," but you won't likely find a more accomplished "hack" who's driven more cars than he has.
What he's good at is describing how a car feels, how it behaves, and he's apparently been very good at it to be able to afford his toys (multiple Ferraris, Porsches, BMW M car here and there). People pay him to give drive impressions, on both sides of the Atlantic (edmunds, Evo, Autocar). People ask him to drive their megabuck cars to the limit to give an impression of what he thinks. Just because he doesn't gush with nothing but effusive praise for a car doesn't make him a hack. I suspect nobody has ever asked you to test drive their Ferrari F50 and F40...
11-21-2013, 02:55 AM
#19
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Confusing perhaps, but hardly poorly written. He does describe what the car feels like at the limit, and will probably be doing so more in-depth in the follow up.
Not my buddy, and you don't need to qualify your sentence with "maybe he knows how to drive." He definitely knows how to drive and would run circles around you like crazy. You don't get asked by the Porsche factory to compete in the N24, nor do you get to drive an F1 car, nor do you get to drive Ford's works WRC rally car, nor do you get to drive the Nissan Deltawing, nor do you get asked by an F40 and F50 owner to wring out both cars if you only "maybe" know how to drive. You say he's a "hack," but you won't likely find a more accomplished "hack" who's driven more cars than he has.
What he's good at is describing how a car feels, how it behaves, and he's apparently been very good at it to be able to afford his toys (multiple Ferraris, Porsches, BMW M car here and there). People pay him to give drive impressions, on both sides of the Atlantic (edmunds, Evo, Autocar). People ask him to drive their megabuck cars to the limit to give an impression of what he thinks. Just because he doesn't gush with nothing but effusive praise for a car doesn't make him a hack. I suspect nobody has ever asked you to test drive their Ferrari F50 and F40...
Not my buddy, and you don't need to qualify your sentence with "maybe he knows how to drive." He definitely knows how to drive and would run circles around you like crazy. You don't get asked by the Porsche factory to compete in the N24, nor do you get to drive an F1 car, nor do you get to drive Ford's works WRC rally car, nor do you get to drive the Nissan Deltawing, nor do you get asked by an F40 and F50 owner to wring out both cars if you only "maybe" know how to drive. You say he's a "hack," but you won't likely find a more accomplished "hack" who's driven more cars than he has.
What he's good at is describing how a car feels, how it behaves, and he's apparently been very good at it to be able to afford his toys (multiple Ferraris, Porsches, BMW M car here and there). People pay him to give drive impressions, on both sides of the Atlantic (edmunds, Evo, Autocar). People ask him to drive their megabuck cars to the limit to give an impression of what he thinks. Just because he doesn't gush with nothing but effusive praise for a car doesn't make him a hack. I suspect nobody has ever asked you to test drive their Ferrari F50 and F40...
11-21-2013, 03:16 AM
#20
Melting Slicks
Confusing perhaps, but hardly poorly written. He does describe what the car feels like at the limit, and will probably be doing so more in-depth in the follow up.
Not my buddy, and you don't need to qualify your sentence with "maybe he knows how to drive." He definitely knows how to drive and would run circles around you like crazy. You don't get asked by the Porsche factory to compete in the N24, nor do you get to drive an F1 car, nor do you get to drive Ford's works WRC rally car, nor do you get to drive the Nissan Deltawing, nor do you get asked by an F40 and F50 owner to wring out both cars if you only "maybe" know how to drive. You say he's a "hack," but you won't likely find a more accomplished "hack" who's driven more cars than he has.
What he's good at is describing how a car feels, how it behaves, and he's apparently been very good at it to be able to afford his toys (multiple Ferraris, Porsches, BMW M car here and there). People pay him to give drive impressions, on both sides of the Atlantic (edmunds, Evo, Autocar). People ask him to drive their megabuck cars to the limit to give an impression of what he thinks. Just because he doesn't gush with nothing but effusive praise for a car doesn't make him a hack. I suspect nobody has ever asked you to test drive their Ferrari F50 and F40...
Not my buddy, and you don't need to qualify your sentence with "maybe he knows how to drive." He definitely knows how to drive and would run circles around you like crazy. You don't get asked by the Porsche factory to compete in the N24, nor do you get to drive an F1 car, nor do you get to drive Ford's works WRC rally car, nor do you get to drive the Nissan Deltawing, nor do you get asked by an F40 and F50 owner to wring out both cars if you only "maybe" know how to drive. You say he's a "hack," but you won't likely find a more accomplished "hack" who's driven more cars than he has.
What he's good at is describing how a car feels, how it behaves, and he's apparently been very good at it to be able to afford his toys (multiple Ferraris, Porsches, BMW M car here and there). People pay him to give drive impressions, on both sides of the Atlantic (edmunds, Evo, Autocar). People ask him to drive their megabuck cars to the limit to give an impression of what he thinks. Just because he doesn't gush with nothing but effusive praise for a car doesn't make him a hack. I suspect nobody has ever asked you to test drive their Ferrari F50 and F40...
Chris H is the real deal. The pictures and the article don't belong together. You can see the Porsche & the C7 Z51 being tested in the pictures (I am sure this is the future Article). That is what I am waiting for. All my Euro friends in the USA & Europe are on the fence about the C7 & think I am crazy moving from Porsche. If Chris & Top Gear UK speak well about the C7-Z51 it could be a game changer for GM that could help create more interest for the C7 overseas..
Last edited by fasttoys; 11-21-2013 at 03:19 AM.
