Drove the Stingray and Viper on track -- Viper had a great view...
10-05-2013, 01:27 PM
#41
Danny, Danny, Danny. You are so desperate. Viper is a good car but just does not have the real popularity or history that the Corvette owns...and it never will. The Corvette is THE American sports car and everyone knows it. If there wasn't a Corvette there never would have been a Cobra or a Viper.
10-05-2013, 01:32 PM
#42
Team Owner
Photos never lie. My white 64, with it's measly 300 HP, two speed automatic transmission, power steering, power brakes, power windows(all the go fast options) is out in front of a C5, a 67 427 and a ZR1. We were racing hard at the Grand Prix of Branson(AKA Veterans day parade), and we all four had to hit our brakes to keep from running over that slow poke Grand Sport in front of me.
10-05-2013, 01:35 PM
#43
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Sep 2007
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Photos never lie. My white 64, with it's measly 300 HP, two speed automatic transmission, power steering, power brakes, power windows(all the go fast options) is out in front of a C5, a 67 427 and a ZR1. We were racing hard at the Grand Prix of Branson(AKA Veterans day parade), and we all four had to hit our brakes to keep from running over that slow poke Grand Sport in front of me.
^ At those breakneck speeds it's all about Aero - yours obviously has real aerodynamic advantages . . . .
10-05-2013, 01:38 PM
#44
Drifting
Please keep everyone informed on when the race will be held. I would like to watch as Big Dan will " waste a C7 on any day on any track"
I think it's great that he agreed . I can respect someone that will put up or shut up.
I think it's great that he agreed . I can respect someone that will put up or shut up.
10-05-2013, 01:42 PM
#45
Team Owner
Of course, what the photo doesn't show is the high school band in front of the Grand Sport. That slow *** tuba player with a .87 Cd ruined the day for everyone.
10-05-2013, 03:27 PM
#46
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Viper vs Vette
No, no, no, Dan. You completely missed the point. You get the ponies and Andy gets the granny mobile. If you are putting Kendall in the car then we have to put Andy in an equally competitive car, thus Tommy gets to look at the rear end. Pretty much what the Viper Team has been doing in ALMS all year; just like today.
Last edited by VLE-OPD; 10-05-2013 at 03:31 PM.
10-05-2013, 03:58 PM
#48
10-05-2013, 05:23 PM
#49
Race Director
.
I've spent plenty of time in different Vipers on track. Here's my summation: They are aggressive cool looking cars and I like them, I really do -- they are not fun to drive on track at the limit, period. We have 400 members at the club and many own Vipers, they do not track them and for good reason, they are not confident inspiring and too many have found the Armco. They're great for getting ice cream on a Friday night or going to a drag strip.
Also, I don't understand your comments. You state that you drive a C6R, and you find the 640HP Viper slow, but you later say you consider the Viper intimidating? Can't be both, as any racer knows, so this seems somewhat contradictory on it's face. If the Viper feels slow to you, that would mean you think you have not extracted all the speed out of it... The symptoms would suggest more seat time is needed.
Anyway, just trying to keep things real. We get it though - you don't like the Viper. That's cool. But it would be quite silly to suggest that the Viper is an inferior piece of crap - which some in here will happily assume based on comments. Of course, if there is any forum where that notion will get sympathetic ears, it is here.
Last edited by TTRotary; 10-05-2013 at 05:42 PM.
10-05-2013, 05:33 PM
#50
Team Owner
Dan,
The post was tongue in cheek as this was a media event, I really thought that was obvious. You jumped up too quickly showing your biasness. Despite driving the cars aggressively, I posted no lap times nor who was driving each of the cars. Hardly a realistic comparison.
For the sake of a civil conversation I'm happy to address your comments regardless.
Firstly, a higher HP car is NOT always faster on the track. If you really believe this then you don't understand all the variable that go into lowering lap times. A track like Road America or VIR will certainly favor the higher HP car, but not at a track like Autobahn (4th largest full track in the US) because it has shorter straight-a-ways and HP will not help you in the handling department. The ACR is a different story, neat car.
Here's a clip of my C6R so you understand driving a 640 HP Viper actually feels quite slow to me, as does a ZR1 as well.
In my C6R I see about 150mph at Autobahn on the straights ( A Viper will only see 128mph) whereas Road America I see 180mph+.
As far as myself, not your fault, you don't know me, despite many here that do, or what I've driven so I applaud you for questioning it.
I've spent plenty of time in different Vipers on track. Here's my summation: They are aggressive cool looking cars and I like them, I really do -- they are not fun to drive on track at the limit, period. We have 400 members at the club and many own Vipers, they do not track them and for good reason, they are not confident inspiring and too many have found the Armco. They're great for getting ice cream on a Friday night or going to a drag strip.
As you clearly state later on, you have considerable seat time in the Viper. You're welcome as my guest to come to Autobahn to drive against a new Stingray. I'll even pop for dinner afterwards!
You drive your Viper to a faster lap time than the new Stingray here and I'll cover your travel expenses. You lose and we affix a racing window visor decal stating "I lost to a Corvette on track" which you proudly present for photo ops.
Mike
This is exactly why when our club first opened there were many Vipers brought out, until all the Corvettes, BMWs, Porches were proven to be better performance cars. Performance meaning stopping distance, threshold braking, handling, car feedback, nit just stepping on the go pedal.
J, you get it!
If we take human error out of the equation, quite possibly. But we live in a world of humans and we make errors, heck I make too many every day -- like posting here.
With all the new technology evolving we have autonomous cars that have been programmed to drive on track and soon faster than humans. We are not robots; therefore it's critical to have a piece of machinery that we can handle, the easier it is to handle, the easier it is to go faster.
Absolutely the Viper is better since Gen 1, in fact world's better. It's still not up to par in terms of driver friendliness as other factory sports cars have to offer today. It doesn't make it a bad car or not enjoyable, but extracting the most from it is nearly impossible.
If you ever get a chance to drive the new Stingray on track, you will see for yourself there's a lot more to a car than a dyno pull. Until you've had that opportunity any comparisons you make are baseless.
Mike
The post was tongue in cheek as this was a media event, I really thought that was obvious. You jumped up too quickly showing your biasness. Despite driving the cars aggressively, I posted no lap times nor who was driving each of the cars. Hardly a realistic comparison.
For the sake of a civil conversation I'm happy to address your comments regardless.
Firstly, a higher HP car is NOT always faster on the track. If you really believe this then you don't understand all the variable that go into lowering lap times. A track like Road America or VIR will certainly favor the higher HP car, but not at a track like Autobahn (4th largest full track in the US) because it has shorter straight-a-ways and HP will not help you in the handling department. The ACR is a different story, neat car.
Here's a clip of my C6R so you understand driving a 640 HP Viper actually feels quite slow to me, as does a ZR1 as well.
In my C6R I see about 150mph at Autobahn on the straights ( A Viper will only see 128mph) whereas Road America I see 180mph+.
As far as myself, not your fault, you don't know me, despite many here that do, or what I've driven so I applaud you for questioning it.
I've spent plenty of time in different Vipers on track. Here's my summation: They are aggressive cool looking cars and I like them, I really do -- they are not fun to drive on track at the limit, period. We have 400 members at the club and many own Vipers, they do not track them and for good reason, they are not confident inspiring and too many have found the Armco. They're great for getting ice cream on a Friday night or going to a drag strip.
As you clearly state later on, you have considerable seat time in the Viper. You're welcome as my guest to come to Autobahn to drive against a new Stingray. I'll even pop for dinner afterwards!
You drive your Viper to a faster lap time than the new Stingray here and I'll cover your travel expenses. You lose and we affix a racing window visor decal stating "I lost to a Corvette on track" which you proudly present for photo ops.
Mike
This is exactly why when our club first opened there were many Vipers brought out, until all the Corvettes, BMWs, Porches were proven to be better performance cars. Performance meaning stopping distance, threshold braking, handling, car feedback, nit just stepping on the go pedal.
J, you get it!
If we take human error out of the equation, quite possibly. But we live in a world of humans and we make errors, heck I make too many every day -- like posting here.
With all the new technology evolving we have autonomous cars that have been programmed to drive on track and soon faster than humans. We are not robots; therefore it's critical to have a piece of machinery that we can handle, the easier it is to handle, the easier it is to go faster.
Absolutely the Viper is better since Gen 1, in fact world's better. It's still not up to par in terms of driver friendliness as other factory sports cars have to offer today. It doesn't make it a bad car or not enjoyable, but extracting the most from it is nearly impossible.
If you ever get a chance to drive the new Stingray on track, you will see for yourself there's a lot more to a car than a dyno pull. Until you've had that opportunity any comparisons you make are baseless.
Mike
I am sorry I did not have a chance to post in this thread prior to now. Glad you had a great day on the track with the Stingray. Just an incredible machine. I can't talk to the Viper on the track but I have been behind the wheel of the Stingray on the road and I know your capabilities behind the wheel of a race car. Glad you posted some footage of the beast.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Paul
10-05-2013, 05:36 PM
#51
Team Owner
Gerry,Nice to see you pop in once in a while. You know, I'm pretty sure Andy would do it.
Paul P
10-05-2013, 06:17 PM
#52
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
I would say that it was mis-leading rather than tongue in cheek, as it implies the C7 could stay ahead of the Viper, any day, any time. I'm sure that is a pleasant day-dream for the C7 fans, but it is not reality. A number of folks in this particular section take things literally (see above responses to your OP) and cannot make that distinction. Also, it looks to me by the picture that the event had no passing rules, which is pretty standard.
Have you actually driven a 2013 on a track? I just test-drove one last week on the street, aggressively, and I can tell you the new car has absolutely nothing to do with the older car, including the 2008 that I drove at Pahrump a few years back. Totally different feel, much better balance, and less crude/intimidating. The progress in tires alone would be a game changing aspect for the Viper, as it is for the C7.
There are also contradictions in your comments. You state that you drive a C6R, and you find the 640HP Viper slow, but you later say you consider the Viper intimidating? Can't be both, as any racer knows. If the Viper feels slow to you, that means you have not extracted all the speed out of it... The symptoms would suggest more seat time is needed.
First off I didn't say the Viper was slow, I said my C6R makes it 'feel 'slow, it was a relative reference -- I also included the ZR1 in that statement. Those that have ridden shotgun with me in the Beast understand what I'm talking about. When talking about fast on a road track, we aren't talking about top speed, we are talking about getting around the circuit in the least amount of time as possible.
I also stated the new Viper handles much better than previous models, it's still not a confidence builder like the Stingray is. A car doesn't have to have 640HP to be a handful on the track. better stated, the Viper feels like you're driving a car much larger than it is, the Stingray does not. This was a common observation by all the media that attended as well. This does not mean the Viper can't achieve faster lap times, it just means it's going to take more effort and more talent, a tough task if you're not a paid driver. Forum member David Pintaric is one of the few guys I have seen here who can hustle a Viper around the track very well.
Ever drive a Noble GT, wicked fast cars too, but insanely difficult to drive at the limit despite their ability to put down fast times.
Keep things real? Far from it.
Where did I say I don't like the Viper? How many times do I have to post that I think they are cool cars? Where did I say it was a piece of crap? Oh, I didn't.
Just because the new Stingray is universally preferred over the Viper doesn't make the Viper a bad car, it just makes the Stingray preferred. I do like the adjustable pedals the Viper offers and it does have decent helmet room with the seat lowered.
I prefer a good rib eye over salmon, but still like both. Does this mean that salmon is a piece of crap?
Mike
10-05-2013, 07:54 PM
#53
Safety Car
No, no, no, Dan. You completely missed the point. You get the ponies and Andy gets the granny mobile. If you are putting Kendall in the car then we have to put Andy in an equally competitive car, thus Tommy gets to look at the rear end. Pretty much what the Viper Team has been doing in ALMS all year; just like today.
And to Mike, I guess I'm not the only one who misinterpreted your initial post but why the "those on edge" comment? We all have opinions, if they can't be discussed here than they should close the forum. Some of the posts in this thread are border line hysterical, I really don't get where some of these guys get their info from but whatever.
So if I did not misinterpret you I gathered you are saying the C7 will be better than the Viper with the same driver behind the wheel and that is where I will disagree. If any of us drove both cars back to back IMO there is no way the 7 would be faster, I get that the 640 will not be the tell all but the Viper will outshine as it should the 7 in most if not all aspects of the course.
At the end of the day they are both good cars, for my money the new SRT is now a true supercar b/c it is now been brought up to modern material standards, the performance has always been there! And if the car is hard to drive to the limit then how did Randy set the Laguna record? Yesterdays rep is gone and even though the Viper sales are struggling it may be a good time to jump in and buy one. I saw a loaded GTS for 10k off at 126k, well worth it IMO.
10-05-2013, 08:15 PM
#54
Team Owner
If there's a race between Short Throw in his car and pretty much anyone not a pro in an ACR Viper, I'll put my money on ST. I've seen this guy drive.
10-05-2013, 08:53 PM
#55
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Take Pill Dan
Not sure how Mikes T1 and a pro driver got into this, I thought I had to run a C7 with an SRT.
Again you are saying I am to race AP? And wow you are insulting Tommy Kendall? And lastly you are attacking a new team in ALMS that has done extremely well for first year? Okay we're done here!
And to Mike, I guess I'm not the only one who misinterpreted your initial post but why the "those on edge" comment? We all have opinions, if they can't be discussed here than they should close the forum. Some of the posts in this thread are border line hysterical, I really don't get where some of these guys get their info from but whatever.
So if I did not misinterpret you I gathered you are saying the C7 will be better than the Viper with the same driver behind the wheel and that is where I will disagree. If any of us drove both cars back to back IMO there is no way the 7 would be faster, I get that the 640 will not be the tell all but the Viper will outshine as it should the 7 in most if not all aspects of the course.
At the end of the day they are both good cars, for my money the new SRT is now a true supercar b/c it is now been brought up to modern material standards, the performance has always been there! And if the car is hard to drive to the limit then how did Randy set the Laguna record? Yesterdays rep is gone and even though the Viper sales are struggling it may be a good time to jump in and buy one. I saw a loaded GTS for 10k off at 126k, well worth it IMO.
Again you are saying I am to race AP? And wow you are insulting Tommy Kendall? And lastly you are attacking a new team in ALMS that has done extremely well for first year? Okay we're done here!
And to Mike, I guess I'm not the only one who misinterpreted your initial post but why the "those on edge" comment? We all have opinions, if they can't be discussed here than they should close the forum. Some of the posts in this thread are border line hysterical, I really don't get where some of these guys get their info from but whatever.
So if I did not misinterpret you I gathered you are saying the C7 will be better than the Viper with the same driver behind the wheel and that is where I will disagree. If any of us drove both cars back to back IMO there is no way the 7 would be faster, I get that the 640 will not be the tell all but the Viper will outshine as it should the 7 in most if not all aspects of the course.
At the end of the day they are both good cars, for my money the new SRT is now a true supercar b/c it is now been brought up to modern material standards, the performance has always been there! And if the car is hard to drive to the limit then how did Randy set the Laguna record? Yesterdays rep is gone and even though the Viper sales are struggling it may be a good time to jump in and buy one. I saw a loaded GTS for 10k off at 126k, well worth it IMO.
10-05-2013, 11:02 PM
#57
Safety Car
Geez Dan I was offering a little variety for you to show off your stuff. Talk about being uptight and a little on edge Dan? Maybe you need to reread what you posted. There is no doubt the Viper should out perform a C7, and if it didn't they should shut down the brand right now, but it doesn't mean the C7 will get beaten. However if you think the Corvette guys are sitting back basking in the lime light watch out. You mean to tell me they are discounting the Viper already?!!!! Well says a lot about it doesn't it? By the time you get yours there will be another C7 for you to deal with and in reality that hand built Viper (Have you ever seen them build one? I have!) will be hustling to keep up with the pace. So with all that said you can take your ball, your bat, your Viper, and go home if that's what you want to do. The reality is the Corvette IS a better car and everyone else seems to notice that but a few Snake oil sales people. It’s your money Dan and it’s a free country for now.
So you say if the Viper doesn't outperform the C7 they should shut down the brand but it doesn't mean the C7 will get beaten...HUH? You're talking out of both sides, is it better or is it not IYO?And btw, they are discounting the C7 already also, not to mention the absurd amount of problems that are already occurring within the first two weeks of release. And what C7 will "I" have to deal with, your words are becoming laughable. And yes I've seen a Viper built at Conner Ave, what does that have to do with anything?
*****, bats...what are you talking about? And tell me seeing how you know, how is the Corvette a better car? You're telling me that if someone offered you a 2013 SRT or a 2014 C7 you'd take the bailout car? If so than someone or somehow GM brainwashed you!
Last edited by Big Dan 427; 10-05-2013 at 11:17 PM.
10-06-2013, 12:46 PM
#58
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What are you talking about? Given same drivers familiar with each car, the Gen V Viper will win every time over the base C7. When the ZR1 comes out, the Viper will have its work cut out for it.
There is a guy on the VCA site, pretty new to racing, took his brand new $14,500 paint job GTS to the track and dominated everyone.
It is all the skill of the driver.
There is a guy on the VCA site, pretty new to racing, took his brand new $14,500 paint job GTS to the track and dominated everyone.
It is all the skill of the driver.
10-06-2013, 12:48 PM
#59
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harlold! Hello! I think that is exactly what we all said here! Duh! Except for the fact HP doesn't always win on a road course if it isn't conducive to that layout the Viper should win. Now the new Z06 may have something to say about that just like the old one did. However all of these nebulous examples of the Vipers superiority leads one to question the validity of any claim without a C7 present. In other words put it on the track and SHOW ME!