Guibo

If it's not already doing this, Porsche's DCT can do something similar but for a different reason. From R&T on the new Turbo:
"As if telepathic and instantaneous gear selection wasn't enough, the PDK now uses clutch slip to create virtual intermediate gears, lowering engine speed when cruising. Any horror at the thought of mechanical torture inflicted on the clutch in the name of fuel economy is mostly dissipated when you realize the clutches are happily bathed in oil the whole time."

There could be a point in the future where the paddles themselves might be touch sensitive enough to allow the driver to modulate the clutch slip, so that they don't have to operate purely as on/off switches.

Daekwan06

Picture that. A computer controlled clutch. With a paddle. That is so touch sensitive. It allows the driver to modulate the clutch slip at his will. So it doesnt operate purely as an on/off switch.

Almost sounds like a clutch peddle.

Clutch peddle. I'd like to you to meet Clutch paddle. Your electronic brother.



Talk about drive-by-wire!

RedLS6

Yup, I know what you mean - although this video doesn't demonstrate "exactly" that, the PDK is more than good enough for me in this respect. The GT3 goes up on the trailer ramps at about 1:40 into the vid.

Shurshot

I noticed the same............

RedLS6

I wouldn't get excited about the prospects of a DCT in the C7 just yet. I think a good planetary unit is much, much more likely in the near future.




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obzidian

Who cares??? Corvettes require three pedals not two!

Shaka

Originally Posted by Yoav G
I do believe that this transmission will eventually show up in the Corvette. Dual clutch transmissions are designed and intended specifically for people who want to shift for themselves (enthusiasts).

Having said that, the only reason it might not make it to the Vette would be because of HP/torque limitations, but I can't imagine a world where GM would develop this transmission and not be 100% certain that it was going in the Corvette, their flagship sports car.

To make a long story epic, yes, I firmly believe this is going in the Vette eventually. Near future? that's another story... I'd say 2016-ish.

This is what I was responding to. Do you agree that it is complete and utter nonsense? The virtue of a DCT is that you can develop and hone driving skills that will be synergistic to the machine and conducive to faster lap times. Your energy and work load going into the pedal dance required with manuals can be better applied to alternative skills.
The LFA has a far superior solution which is a Formula 1 type transmission adapted to every day use.
Tadge said they considered the DCT but the chassis architecture would have to be a dedicated design. You can't run the clutches off the flywheel so they would have to be remote. The Ferrari FF and the GTR have complicated solutions and also the torque can be dissipated to the front wheels with their designs.
Both solutions are an engineering disaster waiting to happen.
I have asked many times for someone to sketch out the DCT layout from plan and side view of this transmission in a front engined Vette that would take 700+ HP.
You also have to make it light and strong and cheap. A LFA sequential is my answer but there are fancy slush boxes on the horizon that will put a stop to this DCT nonsense. Many race Corvette teams have such a transmission that could easily be adapted to street.
GMs patents for a DCT is for small high volume passenger cars that require a DCT for economy reasons. It won't translate or scale up to a Vette.

Yoav G

At this point we're all bench racing. I respect your opinion and those who agree with you, but I believe the DCT will go in the Vette.

You know what? I may be wrong. You too, however, maybe wrong. Declaring with all the certainty of the Chicago Tribune that "Dewey Defeats Truman" could come back to bite you. Argue away...

Shaka

Politics is different to physics and economics. It may be bench racing to you. Draw me a picture. Find an engineer and ask him to draw you a picture of the layout. Then ask him to weigh the alternatives. Why don't F1 cars use it if it is so great? Read my lips, it ain't going to happen.

CorvetteFerrariFTW

I remember someone high up at GM went on record with a DCT is not required because the fuel efficiency is negligible or the same as the automatic. He also said that it is difficult with the Corvette because of the amount of torque it uses and the only other manufacturer that has a DCT for high-torque applications is Porsche. I specifically remember that part, because I thought he was disingenuous. There are others out there with high torque DCTs like Ferrari (F12) and MB (SLS AMG Black Series). Maybe he was stating that there are no third-party DCTs on the market that would fit the Corvette and the only one that would is developed by and for Porsche and GM obviously can't use it. I wish I can find the interview. He MAY have said cost is also a problem but I don't recall. Nonetheless, cost is an issue. But I don't see why GM cannot develop a DCT that can handle high-torque and, therefore, can be used in low-torque vehicles, also. It would spread the cost out.

It's not just about the drag racing times for the magazine shoots. It's not even about track times. It's about potential buyers looking at the competition and observing that they have DCTs but GM doesn't even offer one as an option. It makes it appear as if GM is playing catch-up.

For personal reasons, I will not buy a German car (though they are fine machines), and I can't afford the Italians. I prefer the DCT to the manual, due to my area being congested stop-and-go roads and the nearest track is a considerable distance away. I really would like to purchase a C7 with a DCT. I hope it becomes available sooner than later, I really do.

Shaka

You know, you want to sit in the front rows for a dime.
Describe in detail, why you prefer a DCT over a ZF 8 speed slush box and a sequential gearbox?
Describe the differences between the DCTs fitted to a F12, a GT3, a Panamara, BMW 3 series, a FF and a GTR? Which one would resemble the C7 DCT the closest?
You really do indeed?

CorvetteFerrariFTW

Just wanted to make a clarification/amplification. According to the DCT wiki article, Porsche's DCT is supplied by ZF. At the time of the interview, which was maybe in the last 1-2 years, he did say the only one that can fit is used by Porsche. And GM would would have to use a DCT that can handle 600-800 ft-lb torque. All other DCTs on the market that are in-use in performance cars work in vehicles with torque numbers no more than 500 ft-lb (i.e. Mclaren 12C, MB SLS, Audi V10 Plus, Ferrari 458, Ferrari F12). Those cars are higher revving engines than the Corvette and have less torque. So, what I'm wondering is does ZF have an exclusive agreement with Porsche with their DCT or is it too expensive for GM or the DCT won't work with the upper variant Corvettes (i.e. Z06, ZR1).

The Mclaren P1, the new Ferrari hypercar, and Porsche 918 all use a DCT, correct? So, maybe GM can work with the transmission supplier for those vehicles and develop a cost-effective DCT that can work on high-torque and low-torque applications to spread cost.

b4i4getit

Exactly. We need something like this for the C7 and the sooner the better.

MikeyTX

Still trying to up skirt are you Sam ?

MikeyTX

Yup, this is exactly why I bought the '12 6 mos ago. It's going to force me to keep the car for at least 3 years to keep from taking a bath on trade in. By then, the upgrades and refresh will have happened.

Shaka

Where are you going to put it? Rush has a name for you.

ByByBMW

Serious question for you. You talk as a person that has extensive experience in either transmission design and application, or maybe a mechanical engineer. Your statements about the DCT not coming have a ring of background knowledge. Do you have the kind of experience or knowledge that leads you to your conclusions?
Thanks.

Shaka

This DCT subject has been thrashed about for some time now. There are those who have been told that a DCT is the greatest thing since apple pie. In certain applications, this may be true.
The first question I must ask is why doesn't the C5R and the C6R GT1, 2 and E use them but the F458 GTe does? What gearbox is used in the Ferrari F1 car? Why? If the DCT is so great why don't F1 cars use them?

The blind DCT folks here are unable to offer any reasonable explanation.
I propose that the correct gearbox to use in a C7 is the same type that F1 cars use which happens to be the same one used in the Corvette race cars. Surely that design would be superior? Why would you want to use the same gearbox as a Ferrari sports car, when the Corvette race car uses the same gearbox as F1 cars do?

A Toyota LFA uses one. My word. Maybe it's because it is not European that the don't like it?

The smartest and the least expensive way to go would be the 8sp slush box.
Even when it out performs a DCT, the DCT fanatics will not accept it. You know, like the earth has been cooling for the past 20 years.

Because some expensive sports cars use a DCT, not all, it must be the right way to go and obviously superior than the slush box. Maybe it's because everything in Europe is better than America. Maybe their schools have successfully convinced them to hate everything American. Beats me.

They are like the global warming crowd. They have no knowledge of the sciences, yet global warming is their unquestioned belief. How can that possibly be?

I frequent a couple of engineering forums where there is a base line of common understanding which facilitates a synergistic environment which is condusive to problem solving in machine design or applied physics.

What I find quite annoying, is that some will pretend to be knowledgeable about certain matters and their egos prevent any meaning full exchanges.

This same mentality destroyed Dave McLelland's digital dash on his 84 Vette.

To answer your question, yes I have the knowledge and experience that leaves me no doubt about my conclusions. The question is, do you have the knowledge to ascertain whether I do or not?

If you can comment on the following posts, it will help me understand your level of knowledge and understanding of this subject. It is very complicated and without a modicum of mechanics or machine design knowledge, it is difficult to present the information necessary to explain why one design is superior to another in this particular application.
Post # 34, 47, 49, 51, 52, 53, 56.

This is the Porsche Panamera PDK.



Ferrari FF



GTR





A8



Gallardo

ByByBMW

No I can't answer your questions, or answer your posts. All I know is what I have experienced. I just wanted to know if you have the engineering chops to make the posts you have made. It appears to me you probably do.
I was not asking to put you on the spot, but rather to gather information for my own knowledge.
Personally, I do hope GM can come up with a DCT, or at least one that acts like Porsche's and I can say that because I own a Porsche with PDK. I have no knowledge of any of the others.

Thanks for your time.

CorvetteFerrariFTW

For the record, I am an engineer, but not in this field. I can only speak for myself when I say the reason I want the Corvette to have a DCT is most of the Corvette's performance (not price) competition either have a DCT as an option or it's the only option. The Corvette should compete with the latest and greatest technology it can provide to its customers. Now, its average customer's income is less than a Ferrari's average customer income. I get that. But it doesn't look good when most of your competition have these fancy transmissions and the Corvette can't even offer one as an option.

Personally, I don't care what you call it. DCT. SMG. T5000. BestEverTranny. If GM can make an F1-style transmission that can be cost effective for its Corvette customers and competes with the best DCT transmissions, I would buy it. What I care about is smoothness and fast shifts. If GM can make a conventional automatic that can shift as smooth and as fast as a DCT, great. DCT just seems to be the transmission of the day and is what most of the Corvette's competition employs. But I don't much care what technology is behind the Corvette'a automatic transmission, as long as the results are the same or better than its competition.