People with bad knees that are thinking about an automatic.
09-08-2013, 02:49 PM
#21
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If you knew how to heel/toe that wouldn't present a problem. You can sit 1" off my rear bumper and I don't have an issue.
I heel/toe on the track, but over the years I also have what I call the toe/toe...lol. Under true threshold braking I heel/toe for the highest degree of pedal pressure, but under street conditions I do a toe/toe (as I've coined it), which is just the upper left of my right foot on the brake, with the right side of my right foot on the gas.
On the street, under typical driving conditions, this is how I heel/toe, as a full heel swing isn't necessary. Therefore, being via muscle memory I can quickly jump to either position, when on a hill, I hold the car in position with the brake using the left side of my foot and modulate throttle with the right side, then release the clutch and pull away....no roll back whatsoever...even on the steepest of hills.
Before you make any assumption about it...I can do it in dress shoes, socks, barefoot...in a Corvette, a Honda or a Toyota pickup truck. I don't have huge feet either....11 1/2's.
Become a capable operator...problem solved.
I heel/toe on the track, but over the years I also have what I call the toe/toe...lol. Under true threshold braking I heel/toe for the highest degree of pedal pressure, but under street conditions I do a toe/toe (as I've coined it), which is just the upper left of my right foot on the brake, with the right side of my right foot on the gas.
On the street, under typical driving conditions, this is how I heel/toe, as a full heel swing isn't necessary. Therefore, being via muscle memory I can quickly jump to either position, when on a hill, I hold the car in position with the brake using the left side of my foot and modulate throttle with the right side, then release the clutch and pull away....no roll back whatsoever...even on the steepest of hills.
Before you make any assumption about it...I can do it in dress shoes, socks, barefoot...in a Corvette, a Honda or a Toyota pickup truck. I don't have huge feet either....11 1/2's.
Become a capable operator...problem solved.
09-08-2013, 03:01 PM
#22
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The clutch is only necessary if you are stopped with the engine running and need to put it into 1st. As I already said you can put it into 1st then start the car engine in 1st gear( If there is some kind of hydraulic clutch malfunction I am not sure how it will work with cars that need to be started with the clutch pressed down)
09-08-2013, 03:07 PM
#23
Le Mans Master
Heck back in 1980 I spent two months traveling cross country pulling a 17 foot camper using aScout 4 speed diesel. I can remember more than once stopping at a traffic light on a steep hill in SanFrancisco with some idiot stopping in back of me almost touching my camper bumper. A combination good luck and skill kept me from rolling into whatever was behind me. With a bit of practice anyone should be able to start their car without rolling back
09-08-2013, 03:09 PM
#24
Le Mans Master
All I know is...when I read threads on the Corvette forum where members detail their theory on how to drive manual transmission vehicles...and the statements they make.....it makes me wanna leave...lol.
I think people need some driving instruction....bad....
I think people need some driving instruction....bad....
09-08-2013, 03:28 PM
#26
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The one thing I never had the nerve or guts to try is a power shift. The very first new car I ever had was a 1965 Falcon convertible wit bucket seats. I never drove standard shift before and taught myself how to drive the car after picking it up at the dealer. 1965 was a long time ago but I am pretty sure it was a 260 V8. We had a road near my high school marked off with a 1/8 mile (that is not a typo 1/8 not 1/4) start finish line and it would hold up pretty good against most other cars.
09-08-2013, 03:33 PM
#28
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Are you talking about shifting with or without the clutch? If you are using the clutch you do not need to rev match, but if you are shifting without the clutch you need to rematch. You can get away without rev matching but after a long period of time you are going to cause premature wear to the syncros
09-08-2013, 03:38 PM
#29
Burning Brakes
I'm driving manuals over 25 years and I've never shifted without using the clutch...
I guess I'm not as skilled and I'm ok with that...
I'd still recommend an automatic c7 z51 with MRC and NPP as a daily driver if you have a bad knee...
Plan on having to use the clutch in the m7 especially if your in pain....as your sense to shift without stepping on the clutch might become impaired..
All kidding aside even after hundreds of thousands of miles I've never even tried doing that ...the cost of damaging the transmission always had me reading this technique but never trying it.
Good luck deciding
I guess I'm not as skilled and I'm ok with that...
I'd still recommend an automatic c7 z51 with MRC and NPP as a daily driver if you have a bad knee...
Plan on having to use the clutch in the m7 especially if your in pain....as your sense to shift without stepping on the clutch might become impaired..
All kidding aside even after hundreds of thousands of miles I've never even tried doing that ...the cost of damaging the transmission always had me reading this technique but never trying it.
Good luck deciding
09-08-2013, 08:22 PM
#30
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It's also about how slow and in which gear you must be to go around a corner without shifting....that's what I want to try out...the straight line from a dead stop is one thing, but cornering without having to change gears is most important to me.
09-08-2013, 08:35 PM
#32
Team Owner
I have been shifting modern cars without a clutch or rev matching since the early 80's, premature syncro wear has never been a problem for me, and I average close to 40 k miles per year on my cars. Granted I dont do it all of the time, but sometimes I just don't feel like pushing the clutch, especially on nice long drives when I get comfy.
09-08-2013, 08:48 PM
#33
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My first job out of high school required me to drive a company van. I used that van to learn how to shift without a clutch and it didn't seem to hurt the van. However, it may have affected the life of the transmission.
09-08-2013, 09:14 PM
#34
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I'm driving manuals over 25 years and I've never shifted without using the clutch...
I guess I'm not as skilled and I'm ok with that...
I'd still recommend an automatic c7 z51 with MRC and NPP as a daily driver if you have a bad knee...
Plan on having to use the clutch in the m7 especially if your in pain....as your sense to shift without stepping on the clutch might become impaired..
All kidding aside even after hundreds of thousands of miles I've never even tried doing that ...the cost of damaging the transmission always had me reading this technique but never trying it.
Good luck deciding
I guess I'm not as skilled and I'm ok with that...
I'd still recommend an automatic c7 z51 with MRC and NPP as a daily driver if you have a bad knee...
Plan on having to use the clutch in the m7 especially if your in pain....as your sense to shift without stepping on the clutch might become impaired..
All kidding aside even after hundreds of thousands of miles I've never even tried doing that ...the cost of damaging the transmission always had me reading this technique but never trying it.
Good luck deciding
09-08-2013, 09:26 PM
#35
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I have been shifting modern cars without a clutch or rev matching since the early 80's, premature syncro wear has never been a problem for me, and I average close to 40 k miles per year on my cars. Granted I dont do it all of the time, but sometimes I just don't feel like pushing the clutch, especially on nice long drives when I get comfy.
09-08-2013, 10:08 PM
#36
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[QUOTE=2 Ag R8C
Way back a few decades ago before synchromesh gears were invented people had to double clutch in order to match revs to the gear you were shifting into. Rev matching with the computers aid is basically doing the same thing people did back in the day when double clutching was a common and necessary process.[/QUOTE]
Obviously non of the na-sayers have spent time driving a semi. Having spent years driving over the road most of the time I shifted without the clutch, especially with a 13 speed. You had to be a patient man to shift by feel in a Mack with a 300 and a five speed so there I would relent to double clutching. Back to the OP's question, I wonder if the software for the C7 rev matching is based only on shifter positioning or if if also requires clutch input signals along with the obvious speed and rpm inputs? Any one know about the programming? It has to be quite complex to do what comes natural to a skilled driver.
Way back a few decades ago before synchromesh gears were invented people had to double clutch in order to match revs to the gear you were shifting into. Rev matching with the computers aid is basically doing the same thing people did back in the day when double clutching was a common and necessary process.[/QUOTE]
Obviously non of the na-sayers have spent time driving a semi. Having spent years driving over the road most of the time I shifted without the clutch, especially with a 13 speed. You had to be a patient man to shift by feel in a Mack with a 300 and a five speed so there I would relent to double clutching. Back to the OP's question, I wonder if the software for the C7 rev matching is based only on shifter positioning or if if also requires clutch input signals along with the obvious speed and rpm inputs? Any one know about the programming? It has to be quite complex to do what comes natural to a skilled driver.
09-09-2013, 09:29 AM
#37
I believe the C7 has hill assist and also you can tap the electric emergency brake and as soon as you begin to move forward it disengages.
09-09-2013, 10:01 AM
#38
I loved driving a standard trans but Long Island crowded roads with stop and go traffic were not well suited for that type setup. It was almost as bad trying to drive a 5 second dragster in midtown Manhattan traffic. Sometimes I need a cane to walk and when it gets bad I have cortisone injections in my knees. But having a new C-7 with manual transmission gives me something to look forward to..
09-09-2013, 12:22 PM
#39
Humm good point...the switch on the back of the clutch may trigger rev matching. The car would need to know if the clutch was engage to release throttle control to the driver or the car would act like cruise control holding last speed to match gears? I think that rev match needs both clutch position, and shifter position to know that the driver desires a gear change.
Last edited by CitationZ06@yahoo; 09-09-2013 at 12:30 PM.
