Hirohawa

No but I may offer him a ride back to his moms house after his car blows up.

I have been to Buttonwillow several times and Willow Springs. in both my old C5Z and my new one.



Was that you in front in the Porsche?




These aren't watches or display pieces. All Sports car sacrifice amenities and comfort in the pursuit of performance. Looks are subjective. But the performance metrics are not. I like the LFA - I really do - but it is sub par in performance and being underpowered was a huge sin when asking $350K.

I don't care how rare a car is - that is a marketing ploy - Toyota knows what is up as well as other Japanese manufacturers - they will not sell Corvette or Porsche numbers - at those price points. Just look at all the $30K-$55K sports cars that came out of Japan in the early 1990s - The RX7, The 3000GT, 300ZX, and the Supra. All sold poorly and none of them survived the decade. There where two choices go cheaper ie RX8, 350Z or go expensive GTR (Sells poorly here) or Super expensive LFA - where money is no object types will buy it just because it is expensive.

Well you've already spent almost $400K why not spend more $$$ to add stuff that may or may not work to maybe beat a car that is almost $300K cheaper.

I like the design of the 458 better. 599 is nice but doesn't knock my socks off. And since the 458 handily beat the LFA at the same track on the same day, with the same drivers, this very year, I thought it was more relevant.

No doubt. I completely agree. I just think it is douchey to buy something just because it is expensive or marketed with a perception of exclusivity. Rare and exclusive does not always mean something is better. I live in LA and I think we are ground Zero for D-Bags in expensive cars - seeing Ashton Kutcher in a at the time new Aston Martin Vanquish made me question God's existence.

But Lamborghini does not make the Camry either. And Pagani does not make the Prius. Lambo has a 50 year history of making sports cars - FAMOUS - Outrageous sports cars - performance and racing be damned- but they did make their mark. If you show a poster of a 80's Countach to a non car person they will say "Lamborghini" - do the same with a Supra poster (if they even exist) - you'll get a blank stare.

Again performance metrics. LFA does not seem to be the best in any category. Close sure. But close is not good enough with sports cars.
LFA needed to have more HP a lot more - Would you really like it less if it had 750 HP and was actually beating the other top cars?

When you are in the LFA, losing to a lower priced 458, Dodge Viper and Chevy ZR1 around a track, will you stick your head out the window and say "B-b-but my car is exclusive and they only made 500 of them!"?

Hirohawa

So we'll ignore this Corvette that came in 21st place this year's 24 hours of Nurburgring?



When does the LFA make it's debut at ALMS or LeMans? Or is it too exclusive for real racing? A one and done deal?

15th place is good enough I guess.

Guibo

And what happens when your engine drops a valve?

In bone stock trim, what were your lap times and which configuration?

Not all sports cars do that, and most certainly not all premium sports cars. Look at the McLaren MP4-12C. Some people do appreciate these cars as they'd appreciate a watch. From Autonews:
"The future LFA owners said they were looking for a different car that exudes performance and prestige without being flashy or overwrought. Europeans also appreciate the doting customer service offered by Lexus, a refreshing contrast to the haughty elitism of rival brands.
One buyer, a manufacturing engineer who declined to be identified, compared the LFA to owning a rare, ultraexpensive mechanical wristwatch. 'To most people, it's an unknown quantity,' he said. 'But true aficionados know its value.'"

Because if you cared, you'd end up with a vastly better-built, rarer, AND faster car. But Lexus clearly didn't care to do that, now did they?

599 is nice but doesn't knock your socks off...does that mean you're willing to concede it is overpriced? Don't think that nobody has noticed you treating European brands with kid gloves here.
How is the 458 beating the LFA at the same track anymore relevant? How many bone stock 458 drivers do you see racing on a track against bone stock LFAs? Are you talking about the VIR test, where C&D was sandbagging out of respect to the owner? Or the Motor Trend test where they arbitrarily added 2 psi to all the tires, except the R8 GT and the 458 (at the request of the Ferrari engineers on hand)? Get that? Ferrari engineers on hand...tell me there isn't a pattern here.

Wait, who says the vast majority of LFA buyers buy it just for its exclusivity? I think you haven't been paying attention to any of my posts, if that's what you're getting from this.

Nope.

Why does that even matter? You're basing a car's value based purely on what else the brand makes? What about the quality of the car in question? Lambo didn't always have a 50 year history of making sports cars, now did they? They were once known for making tractors and farm equipment. I'd say Toyota's pedigree with the 2000GT, Group C racers, WRC-winning Celica, and yes, even the Supra, are far greater automotive accomplishments when they made the LFA compared to Lamborghini when it made its first car (which, by the way, was more expensive and slower than the 365 GTB Daytona of the time).
Your argument is self-fulfilling: "Lexus shouldn't be rewarded with sales of its supercar because it hasn't had a supercar before."

By your logic, there can only ever be one best car and anyone buying anything else if a fool, is that it? Point to me any reputable source that says only objective performance matters in determining the value of a car, and not, say, subjective considerations or whether the market at large agrees with a car's price by having people buy it at that price.
I would not like it less if it did that, with all else being equal. But with the ZR1 and ACR, we know that all else is most certainly not equal. Frankly, I wouldn't care. And a 599 GTO on its fat Michelin Pilot Supersports already has difficulty enough with its power...what makes you think an LFA with its less gummy, narrower tires can effectively put down anywhere near 750 hp on a snaking mountain road?

If it were my LFA, I wouldn't stick my head out to say anything. I'd be too busy reveling in the sound of the engine, which would drown out anything I'd have to say anyway. See? There are people out there who simply don't give a rat's ***. Just because you're not one of them doesn't mean they don't exist. Seriously. The fact that cheaper Vipers and ZR1s are faster than Audi R8s, Mercedes SLS, etc, doesn't stop those people from buying them. Mercedes sold 2275 units of the SLS last year, while Audi sold 2144 R8s. You don't even want to get started with a certain car from Stuttgart. GM sold only 882 combined units of the Z06 and ZR1 for MY2012. Care to guess how many ACRs Dodge sold after its initial 7:22 run? With these kinds of volumes in mind, what makes you think that any sizeable portion of buyers in this segment really care about outright fractional speed differences? And more importantly, unless they're racing them (which they aren't) why should they even care about that above all else?

Guibo

Who said we should be ignoring it? I'm just stating facts.
The LFA makes its debut at ALMS or LeMans whenever they restart the production line to make more. It's not that it's too exclusive. It's that with production done and units sold there isn't much reason to race.

RC000E

I will say that I appreciate both approaches. Currently, I commend SRT and Corvette for keeping the live box alive, and no DCT. To me, working three pedals with two feet and one operation for each arm makes me feel alive. I feel it demands ability, and makes consistency, without error, in a circuit setting, that much more difficult.

As stated, with our GTM's, that was my feeling...pure raw. It was hot, it was hard, it had huge oversteer tendency, it was loud, but it got it done. I felt good coming back with myself, as well as the car in one piece, along with a strong lap time to show for it.

On the other hand, driving a DCT/sequential automated transmission isnt necessarily doing anything for you. While its shifting for you, it also commands you to be more precise in a circuit environment. In addition I can left foot brake full time. The value of the time savings is valid. In addition, now I focus on left foot braking entirely, I can really whittle away at precision and divert that time/effort saved into more focus on being faster. So...as a driver, I dont feel like I am losing touch, I feel like it allows me to push harder and be faster.

I simply appreciate all approaches, which is how I appreciate so many various automobiles. I use that information to extract, what I feel, are the best at what they do. In my opinion, a car that does it all, displays pure excellence.

With many exotics and high end sports cars, there are compromises. Compromises are fine, but when there is a car that comes along doing things just as well, but without those compromises...to me that defines the better car.

The Viper ACR...great car...very much a racecar for the street. Not very refined by comparison to its competitors, off the shelf aftermarket components, etc. is it fast...sure...is it worth owning...sure. Kinda weird to take your lady out to dinner or to the theater for a play...sure..

ZR1...nearly as fast, more refined, every bit a driver car, but does it more civil and looks classier doing it. Its a more complete machine for the dollar. The new GTS Viper closed the gap here and makes it a valid choice to the zr1. When the new perf variant of c7 comes out though...that choice will likely be obvious yet again.

Its all debatable...I love many, many cars...believe me. In the end though, I think the LFA and the Corvette achieve a balance that is undeniable. They perform like mad, they can take you to the track or the office, your girl can wear an evening gown and get out of it, they both command respect in their parking space, both have great visibility for what they are (this is why I love Testarossa)....they are just both great cars....money aside.

Hirohawa

I now realize who you are. We met last summer when I was in Florida with my Girlfriend at Don's shop. You gave us a tour of all your projects. Love that roadster. I got the 2 tip diffuser from Don, that you designed along with that awesome 2 tip exhaust. The whole setup is incredible and the exhaust is exactly as you described - loud but not offensive with no drone at all. Way better than stock. You are a gifted and talented car guy.

Shaka

Thanks man. I didn't realize that you were a real car guy and a comic. I've been cracking up reading your posts.

No but I may offer him a ride back to his moms house after his car blows up.

Big Dan 427

Real nice write up! Thanks for your insight and opinions!!

nevillej

I absolutely agree 100%, I believe I made the comment at one time "If you hate the rear of the vette look at the LFA". May make a select few pee on themselves but I don't find it anything great to look at personally, it didn't have anywhere the amount of people looking at it as the corvette when I was in NY for the auto show.

Guibo

You mean the auto show with the brand new C7 Corvette, right? Because I'm pretty sure a C6 wouldn't get more attention at a car show than the LFA, which is still pulling onlookers at car meets 4 years after its debut.

robvuk

That was truly funny.

punky

Interesting and most entertaining thread which has brought the usual import loving, Corvette bashing geeks to the plate.

A nearly 400 thousand dollar performance car that many describe as anything from not good looking to ugly as well as underpowered. Amazing that this offering is described as "awesome". It is obviously a universe from awesome in the looks department and lacking in the performance metrics. Maybe the insane price tag makes it "awesome".

It really is interesting to note that the C7 has been called every name in the book for the absence of a DCT but it is all OK when a $400,000 Lexus comes to market without one. Simply amazing how some people will blindly worship virtually anything from a non US based auto manufacturer.

Lavender

It's the same crap with the Aventador too. It has no DCT. It's Lamborghinis flagship for crying out loud! Yet it gets a pass?

Pathetic !

Guibo

Who's bashing the Corvette?
Simply amazing how CF's resident and blind worshipper of virtually anything for a US based auto manufacturer is here bashing yet another import. Check that. It's not amazing at all.
You're more than welcome to offer your personal experience in driving the LFA, or referencing those who have and said it's not awesome. Since you're into objective numbers and Top Trumps, we can even keep score if you're willing.

Hirohawa

Guibo

Have you driven an LFA? If so what where your impressions of it? I'm not being a smart *** just want to see why you are defending it so staunchly.

Do you track your car(s)?

Shaka

I would love to. I love the sound of a high revving engine and an electronically controlled sequential gearbox would be a blast to operate. I don't have the nerve to take even a Triumph Herald to it's limit so i'll be safe in a LFA.
I PMd you.

Guibo

No, I have not driven an LFA. But then again, I'm not the one bashing it. I think there are enough independent reviews out there to suggest that the car is indeed awesome. Whether it is better than some other car is another matter, as is whether it is worth the price. I'm not defending it anymore staunchly than any other car for which I can see
1) why the manufacturer built the car,
2) whether it lives up to that purpose, and
3) whether it offers something that satisfies a true driving enthusiast (and I don't mean people who formulate assessments based on numbers on some stat sheet).
I don't track my cars, but I have been on a track. For me, a car's ability on the road counts for far more than its track numbers by highly trained professionals in very controlled conditions that maybe .0001% of us ever experience. Tell me that sounds crazy. And while you're at, tell me that Nadal is a "lousy" tennis player or that Jensen Button is "slow."
Do you know why people like Jay Leno don't buy Ferraris?

rcallen484

Jay Leno does not buy Ferraris?????????

Hirohawa

PM sent back

ATC399

what is the OP smoking...lmmfao