OnPoint

I've noticed that with BMW lately as well. It suprises me the firm is headed in that direction. It didn't seem like they had problems selling the previous variants, and in fact the handling and feel had become something of their "stock in trade".

I wonder if they'll make a course change or stay headed where they are.

Guibo

It will likely depend on sales. Dilution of the sporting nature of any marque is always a threat, with so many forces in the market asking for different things. Perhaps a threat overplayed by forum enthusiasts? Maybe. Almost every M3 since the original E30 has gotten further and further from that core sporting ethos, and has fattened up. There's the possibility that the system can be further fined-tuned through software, so that those who want those subtle messages can still have them, while those who want them filtered out can also be satisfied, all within the same vehicle. BMW may decide that the best steering should be saved for M models, as a way to up-sell to a higher profit line. Some car makers take very seriously what the mags have to say, and it will be a black eye to the upcoming M3/M4's reputation if the press is mercilessly critical of that car's steering. The one possible benefit for BMW is that competing brands (particularly Audi and MB) could face their own gremlins as they too adopt EPAS.

OnPoint

Having the ability to tailor the software could indeed be a benefit, and perhaps that is what they have in mind. The weight gain is there as well, but in all fairness to them, all marques are suffering that thru a combination of regulatory and consumer demands.

Perhaps the top manufacturers over the next few years will take EPAS to higher levels than presently seen as mastery of it becomes more mature.

bcmarly

You can count on it. The 2nd & 3rd generations should provide a lot more "feel." Car magazines like to exaggerate to make a point and in the case of the 991's steering it is over blown. The previous generations that I have driven did have more feel in that the steering wheel would dance around in your hand. So the car magazines said that was a good thing, but quite frankly the new one has a ton of road feel.
They also bitched about the seats in the C6 and it bordered on obsessive. For me they were very comfortable, but not supportive in high speed cornering, but come on they weren't that bad.
Now they're trying to control the conversation as it relates to automated manuals. They were the first to sing the praises and benefits of DCT/PDK etc and they are arrogant enough to believe they are responsible for its vast popularity among manufacturers. Now they are bemoaning the demise of the manual which is highly exaggerated. Sure many of the super car manufacturers have gone to automated manuals but the purpose of a super car is to extract the most performance possible. The auto manual accomplishes this, frees up the engineer to strategize with gearing, while meeting the rigid demands of the EPA. Is the manual dead? No! Not yet

PDCjonny

So after haunting the Viper forums and Lambo forums, you ended up with nothing?

bcmarly

Nope I bought a new 911S w/ pwr kit, pdk etc..... how about you, are you still driving the bull?

Carnut12

I thought Trakcar made a valid point in his single post on that link.

CorvetteFerrariFTW

To the OP, do you have any insight into when Motor Trend will publish the story? I'm sure most of us cannot wait to hear the official word on how it compared to the 911 CS.

jimb100

Nothing changes much.

I just reread the Car & Driver comparison between the 05 Vette and 05 911. The vette outperformed it at the track but the Porsche was more "civilized". The Vette's interior was much improved over the C5 but the Porsche was nicer.

The Porsche cost $20k more than the Vette and people complained it wasn't a fair comparison.

Do you think when the C8 released the reviews will be any different? I mean, the performance improves by a small amount but as far as writing the article, the words all stay the same.

skank

It should be here shortly as they just put out the Ferrari F12 test that was being done at the same time at Laguna. Look at my other thread I just started this morning on the F12. I couldn't mention the lap times before but now Motor Trend put it out there. So there you go!!!!!

335i

I'm not sure I agree. In that C&D comparison (http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...tte-z51-page-3), they noted quite a few cons about the C6 (relative to the 911) that seem to have been addressed in the C7 (based on reviews and the Edmunds comparison tests):

- Less path accuracy and slower slalom speed.
- Poor visibility over the hood.
- A lot of body motion over bumpy curves.
- Even though it's fast, it doesn't inspire confidence when driven that way.
- Eager to fishtail.
- Numb steering and chassis.
- Uninspired exhaust note.
- Longer braking distance.
- Stiff, balky shifter.
- Also, they had one sentence saying the new interior was comfortable and attractive. No mention about the seats being supportive, and overall very brief compared to the praise the C7's interior has gotten.

My point in recapping what they said is not to hate on the C6, but just to point out almost from the outset, there were a number of deficiencies that critics observed relative to the 911, and that I think Chevy has paid very close attention to when creating the C7. Also, the price difference between the Corvette and 911 is even greater than it was in 2005.

johnglenntwo

The original ZR1 did an 1:38.70 in 08 at Laguna Seca. In 12 the Ferrari F12 Berlinetta did an 1:38.04. The C7's gots to be better then either? Why?

sweetcharity

I guess I will never understand the back and forth going on about whether the C7 is better than any other car on earth. I've had a 911 turbo and a 911cs as well as a vette, aston martin etc...and never once did I stop and worry or lament and certainly never wasted my time actually arguing (or caring) about whether any other car was better than mine.....corvette or otherwise. Why is it so friggin important?? Now the F12 is thrown in the mix??? So if the C7 actually makes it around a track faster than the F12 by a 1/10th or 2, does that make it a better car and folks can save themselves $390k cuz the vette was faster around a track??? WGAF (the W in this case = WHY)!

johnglenntwo

Around the same time the ZR1 did that 1:38.70 Laguna Seca time it did the 7:26 Ring time!

And yes the German care to much about shorter term sales goals without looking at the bigger picture. BMW should already have had that Z8 out!