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Old 07-14-2013, 09:25 AM   #1
rcooper
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Default Why oh why is the C7 so lamented

Why is there so much disappointment in the new Corvette? Why do people grip about no DCT, not enough horsepower, no HiPo model, poor interior fitment in the "trunk", no AWD? It seems to me that Chevrolet/Corvette has come up with a winner. A car that has good performance, handles well, looks good, has nice interior, and at a price that is outrageously cheap for what you get. And lets not forget good gas mileage. It is what it is, a United States built car ( for the most part ) that competes with the best cars in the world for much less money. I am a big fan of supporting our economy by buying local and home made product, and the Corvette is the epitome of this. I have one now and will, God willing, always have one, I am sure that I will love my upcoming C7 as much as I love my C6. As is the case with new and improve there will be some adjustments before it is "perfect" and there will be the detractors stating that GM missed the boat, if this is the case I hope they ( detractors ) will miss the boat.also. So all of you understand I am not against the posters who have an honest right to post their feelings but just felt that one who believes in this product needed to say so. I am impressed with the new car, having not driven it yet, having to rely on what other have said, and I am sure that I will like it when it arrives.
Thanks and save the wave.
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Old 07-14-2013, 09:28 AM   #2
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It's easy to have an opinion on something without ever having seen one, driven one, touched one etc etc.
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Old 07-14-2013, 09:40 AM   #3
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I think the Vette is an American Icon more than just another car. It's personal to many and everyone has their own opinion about what the car means to them.

If Chevy said it would not offer a manual anymore for this car, the beef about the tail lights would be minor compared to that. Not because a lot of people like the manual but because it's a major change of the icon -- a break with the past. The same would be if the car was sold with a V6 (which I believe it will be eventually)

Everyone has their own idea on what is and isn't a Corvette -- or what it should be. That's why you get the controversy.
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Old 07-14-2013, 09:49 AM   #4
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Lots of folks were 'disappointed' with the C6, particularly with the no-popup headlights. There was a lot of gnashing of teeth about that issue then. This is quite similar to the complaining about the C7 tail lights.

Now, 10 years later, we have a lot more folks on the internet and specifically this forum to express their opinions, positive and/or negative. A lot of these folks just expected something different or have an issue with style or options or procedural concerns.

There is also the new 'sport' of trollism that some just do because it is entertaining to them to bitch and whine to gain attention. Then you also have another form of trollism where people who own other (often competing) cars are part of a campaign (like the Ralph Gilles disciples) to go forth and denigrate competitor cars in their own forums, quite possibly for pay.
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Old 07-14-2013, 10:00 AM   #5
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The half of the world that sees the glass half empty has more drive to state their negative perspective.

It's unfortunately human nature for the majority of people....

In this case the car is literally a transportation device.q
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Old 07-14-2013, 10:07 AM   #6
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Most of the whining/bitching is coming from C6 owners that somehow feel they and their Cars are diminished by the advent of a newer/better Vette. Instead of celebrating a whole new chapter in the story of the Vette, they chose to pick nits. In a few MYs I predict that most, if not all, will extoling the virtues of their new C7.
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Old 07-14-2013, 10:12 AM   #7
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On balance I think there has been far less moaning about the C7 than there was when the C5 and C6 were introduced. There are alot of people that would be speachless if they weren't complaining Everyone's entitled to their opinion. I like it alot
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Old 07-14-2013, 10:35 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ch47d1sg View Post
It's easy to have an opinion on something without ever having seen one, driven one, touched one etc etc.
Well, this goes both ways BTW.

However, Isee much of the reaction like this;

The C6 actually ran for about three years longer than it was originally planned. During this time, there was alot of speculation about the next generation. And given the popularity of the Corvette, of course there was.

It's really too bad they deleted all the threads prior to the release of the C7. It was interesting to go back and read what people were expecting the new Corvette to be, compared to the actual final product. There were some really wild ideas about horsepower, chassis and design. There were those that seemed to think it should come out of the gate as a nearly pure bred race car, 600HP 2,600 lbs yada, yada. I think that's were a good bit of the criticsm comes from. Then there are traditionalist, or purists, if you will that think the edginess of the design sells out to the Europeans.

I think the extra couple of years of speculation created alot of this. I'd bet, that if this very car, with this very configuration were released in '09 or '10, it would have been insanely well received. In reality, it's a beautiful car, and huge leap forward for Corvette. They have proved that they listened to customers and the market with tremendous detail to the interior. Not to mention what they did with redesign of the frame. I'm not an engineer, but just my knowledge base from being a car guy tells me that this chassis is going to provide a really great driving experience. I believe Jim Mero when he says it feels alot lighter than it is.

But, alas, it is nearly impossible for reality to exceed the expectations of conceptual fantasy. Yes, this car focused alot on fuel economy, I get that. But really, a 455 HP car capable of 0-60 in under 4 sec and gettin 30+ mpg on those extended highway trips, isn't a poor performance benchmark for a 'standard' model. Also, consider that the car can be used as a daily commuter, driven in all kinds of weather. Can take you to the track, run hard all day, than take you to pick up pizza for the kids on the way home, I mean, c'mon.

I really can't wait to see what they put out there to make the 'track rats' happy, I bet it's going to be awesome. But alas, more speculation. (btw, I use the term 'track rats' with great respect for those that use the car to it's full extent)

But I can understand some have disappointment. It's impossible to design anything, much less a Corvette that creates this much passion without some of that passion being negative. Like the old saying, "If you try to make everyone happy, nobody will be happy."

Are there parts of this thing I don't like? Sure. Are there things that I wish weren't there, or things that I wish were? Sure. But from everything I've seen and read, based upon what I do know about cars, this, overall is a great one. If I could buy one right now, I would without a second thought.
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Old 07-14-2013, 10:43 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lt4obsesses View Post
Well, this goes both ways BTW.

However, Isee much of the reaction like this;

The C6 actually ran for about three years longer than it was originally planned. During this time, there was alot of speculation about the next generation. And given the popularity of the Corvette, of course there was.

It's really too bad they deleted all the threads prior to the release of the C7. It was interesting to go back and read what people were expecting the new Corvette to be, compared to the actual final product. There were some really wild ideas about horsepower, chassis and design. There were those that seemed to think it should come out of the gate as a nearly pure bred race car, 600HP 2,600 lbs yada, yada. I think that's were a good bit of the criticsm comes from. Then there are traditionalist, or purists, if you will that think the edginess of the design sells out to the Europeans.

I think the extra couple of years of speculation created alot of this. I'd bet, that if this very car, with this very configuration were released in '09 or '10, it would have been insanely well received. In reality, it's a beautiful car, and huge leap forward for Corvette. They have proved that they listened to customers and the market with tremendous detail to the interior. Not to mention what they did with redesign of the frame. I'm not an engineer, but just my knowledge base from being a car guy tells me that this chassis is going to provide a really great driving experience. I believe Jim Mero when he says it feels alot lighter than it is.

But, alas, it is nearly impossible for reality to exceed the expectations of conceptual fantasy. Yes, this car focused alot on fuel economy, I get that. But really, a 455 HP car capable of 0-60 in under 4 sec and gettin 30+ mpg on those extended highway trips, isn't a poor performance benchmark for a 'standard' model. Also, consider that the car can be used as a daily commuter, driven in all kinds of weather. Can take you to the track, run hard all day, than take you to pick up pizza for the kids on the way home, I mean, c'mon.

I really can't wait to see what they put out there to make the 'track rats' happy, I bet it's going to be awesome. But alas, more speculation. (btw, I use the term 'track rats' with great respect for those that use the car to it's full extent)

But I can understand some have disappointment. It's impossible to design anything, much less a Corvette that creates this much passion without some of that passion being negative. Like the old saying, "If you try to make everyone happy, nobody will be happy."

Are there parts of this thing I don't like? Sure. Are there things that I wish weren't there, or things that I wish were? Sure. But from everything I've seen and read, based upon what I do know about cars, this, overall is a great one. If I could buy one right now, I would without a second thought.
Very well stated.
We have a car, that by comparison of performance numbers provided by GM, is ~1/2 second and 4 mph quicker and faster in the 1/4 mile than its predecessor, stops 9' shorter than a base C6 and 6' shorter than a GS or 427, is precariously close to a C6 Z06 on a road course, has an EPA rating of 29 mph highway and bases at $52k. In addition, the radical new styling makes the car look like it belongs in 2014, not in 2004 and the interior appears to be far less rental-car-like. How is this car not an improvement over the C6???
S.
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Old 07-14-2013, 11:07 AM   #10
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It is simple,

The vocal minority make sure to have their opinions known by all that the car is a failure.

This is the same as other sites, you will always see more problems than praises as people are less likely to comment repeatedly about the same issues if they love it.

Then there are the people who just troll.
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Old 07-14-2013, 11:13 AM   #11
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I like it and think Chevy has hit a major home run.

Yes, I like the round tail lights better, but the lines, interior, technology, and power for the base coupe sounds perfect.

I will have to reserve other opinions until after I drive one, but the limited exposure I have had thus far, has me drooling.

Not since my C5 Z06 have I been so excited about a new Vette.
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Old 07-14-2013, 11:13 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorman View Post
Very well stated.
We have a car, that by comparison of performance numbers provided by GM, is ~1/2 second and 4 mph quicker and faster in the 1/4 mile than its predecessor, stops 9' shorter than a base C6 and 6' shorter than a GS or 427, is precariously close to a C6 Z06 on a road course, has an EPA rating of 29 mph highway and bases at $52k. In addition, the radical new styling makes the car look like it belongs in 2014, not in 2004 and the interior appears to be far less rental-car-like. How is this car not an improvement over the C6???
S.
Gets my vote!
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Old 07-14-2013, 11:14 AM   #13
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People complain because it's new and announced. Everyone has these things they feel it should have, and when it doesn't they still want those things.

I think the "C6 owners are jealous" thing is kinda lame. Are some? I'm sure. But the vast majority, I doubt it. I would imagine most people buying one initially are in fact C6 owners.

With the C7 they've changed the design a lot from the C5-C6 series, it's less rounded and more angular. A lot of people don't like angles - when overdone they become ugly as sin like current Cadillacs.

The transmission, you've got two camps. One who believes that more gears is always better and a lot of companies already have 8 and 9 speed transmissions, and so should Corvette to they can say it has as many gears as their buddy's IS-F or BMW. Then you've got the crowd that was uberfast neck-snapping shifts, they want a DSG like most any top level performance car. GM chose to keep the car somewhat mundane, and give it the RELIABLE and TESTED 6 speed automatic. IMO, that's not a mistake, because you end up with a Corvette that can be driven 200k without issue.

I think people see the Corvette in different ways is the main issue. To some, it's a sporty DD coupe, to others it's the "Everyman's sports car", and to others it's a dream car that they may never own. Each of those groups want different things from the car, and unfortunately, GM can only deliver one vehicle.

I think GM recognizes this, and so tried to "split the middle". I am concerned that they may decide to split the brand, and deliver a Corvette-like car that will be cheaper and less powerful, then the Corvette which will go up in price and power. I don't think that is a good idea personally, I think that it would the allure out of the Corvette, because to me, it's the everyman's sports car, and force the normal folks into the sub-vette, and take the Corvette into the "rich man's plaything" arena with a lot of the exotics.
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Old 07-14-2013, 11:21 AM   #14
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The main reason is there are a lot of people who just like to bitch...period. If we really did what they wanted...we'd all still be driving chariots.

Last edited by Mike Campbell; 07-14-2013 at 11:22 AM. Reason: note
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Old 07-14-2013, 11:22 AM   #15
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The bully on the playground has always had an inferiority complex. The detractors, or "trolls" here can't buy one so they're going to "pick it apart" to justify their fail. Some comments are just expressing opinions and that's good. Others, like BETTERMOSTCORVETTE are just that little kid that needs ignored.
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Old 07-14-2013, 11:24 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt26 View Post
It is simple,

The vocal minority make sure to have their opinions known by all that the car is a failure.

This is the same as other sites, you will always see more problems than praises as people are less likely to comment repeatedly about the same issues if they love it.

Then there are the people who just troll.


But my experience on other high end performance car forums is that more people are there to discuss what they like about the car, how they plan to improve it and less to criticize it. That is, people only hang out there if they want to positively contribute and others migrate to forums that deal with cars they do like.

I think a lot of this comes down to the historical ownership group, the culture associated with the car and how personal folks take change along with whether they personally approve of the change. On the BMW or MB forums, if a new generation of car came out that some members didn't love, they would be more likely to just go buy something else and join that forum. Here, people don't seem able/willing to get past changes they personally don't like and then they decide that most have to agree or they need to inform GM of the error of their ways Considering that the group who don't love the changes is relatively small (although they will debate this), the negative impact they seem to think the C7 will have on Corvette is crazy... but it's because they don't like it, they can't accept that and they don't want to move on to another car so they feel a need to try and "fix" it by informing GM... regardless of whether the new car might, just might, actually improve the perception and broader appeal of the car.
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Old 07-14-2013, 11:27 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcooper View Post
Why is there so much disappointment in the new Corvette?
Negativity begets attention. It's really that simple.

Context-switch from cars to movies for a second. Movie critics (both professional and amateur) often vehemently dislike the "big" movie that was just released. It could be raking in hundreds of millions of dollars each weekend, and these self-appointed experts would do their damnedest to pick it apart and tell us all how terrible it is.

Their negatively generates attention. It's not interesting to read a movie review that gushes about it. It's more interesting, apparently, to read one that's negative.

I don't know why that is inherently, but it appears to be the case. My goal: ignore the movie critics and go see the movie if I think it'll be worth it.

I'll do the same thing with the Stingray and its critics here on CF. Specially the ones that haven't driven one yet...
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Old 07-14-2013, 11:38 AM   #18
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Everyone is entitled to their opinion. My guess is that some do it for sport. And, they suck in more than a few Vette lovers. Some of them will be buying a C7 and some of them never were going to buy one for various reasons other than the tail lights and a dozen other excuses.
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Old 07-14-2013, 11:54 AM   #19
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Quote:
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Why is there so much disappointment in the new Corvette?
I'll play and keep in mind I have seen the car in person.

1. Expectations - this is the fault of the Corvette spoiling the auto world with it's progression of the C5 and C6. In both those we got:

- Lighter than the previous generation - This is a step backward that the C7 is heavier. I don't care what the excuse is. I really don't.

- Substantial bump in HP +/- around 50 over the outgoing model with the exception of the one off 1996 C4 Engine. WIth all the talk of DI and a new Generation engine I think everyone was expecting more than a 24hp increase. C6 at intro gained 50HP with no DI.

- Much needed size reduction in length on the C6


2. Looks

- 3/4 of the car is pretty attractive especially the front. The hatch gets the much needed revamp that is way overdue and is actually the most radical design element introduced to almost no consternation.

BUT:

- The rear end is a mess. - It is not like pop up headlights in the C6. The concept of the non pop up headlights was a point of contention more than the actual design of them.

Also no one compared them to the visual stylings of lesser Chevrolet models that also start with a "C" and end in "amaro". Unifying the design language of the Corvette so it has familial resemblance to the Malibu, Traverse or the other C car, is and will always be a bad idea. Corvette has been on it's own island for about 4 decades in the Chevy lineup and should have remained that way.

Embracing what made you an icon is part of what makes you an icon. Running away from it makes a mess.



3. Propaganda

- It irks me how IMO they are telling us how all these deficiencies are so great. Especially when the C7 is two years late to the party. Heavier is not better nor is having skinnier tires - it amazes me the audacity to spin weight gain as not negative to a sports car.

- More Efficient! - Duh! Isn't that the point of DI - wouldn't it be even more efficient if it where lighter?

- Going for the "younger" buyer agenda. Did not work for Nissan and the GTR - buying a $59 copy of GT4 for the Playstation does not mean you can buy a $59,000+ car. And what is sad it there are hints of GTR design elements all over the C7. Pandering to the audience that did NOT buy the GTR - brilliant.

- On the forum C7 criticism is met with "hater" and "jealous" tags that are for the most part incorrect or childish. Many of us here could go out and buy a C7 today if we wanted to. I had no problem dumping my C5 Z06 for the C6Z06 as it was a better car and better looking in every way.

Many of the critiques of the C6 during it's run got us a better more refined car as the model matured. The notion that GM is deaf to criticism is just more BS.



The good news is GM can put their big boy pants on and fix these things on the upcoming Hi-Po (Z06) model - Make it lighter, faster wider and please, please fix that horrid rear end.

If they do not step up I fear it will get even uglier around here.


Save all the puffed up defense and attacks - It's not your first born - He asked and I answered.


Last edited by Hirohawa; 07-14-2013 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 07-14-2013, 12:04 PM   #20
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What I find interesting, though is how much some of you love to hate the trolls. I've only been a member for a short time but I learned who some of them, such as BettermostCorvette, are. As soon as I figure out who they are, I put them on permanent ignore because they add little, if anything, to the conversation and waste my time. Consequently, I don't see their posts, am not subjected to their abuse, and am never tempted to respond to their mindless drivel.

On the other hand, I see some here who are repeatedly riled up over comments I never see and drawn into back and forths over comments specifically intended to do just that. I can only conclude those drawn in actually enjoy the controversy and argument because they embroil themselves in it again and again. They are the reason trolls post.

Posts that inquire, inform or opine are usually worth reading. Posts designed to aggravate or inflame are not. These latter type of post is the stock in trade of the troll and those who respond for whatever reason only serve to encourage the trolls to continue posting. It is the reason they do it.

So do yourself and the rest of us a favor. When you identify someone whose posts seem designed to aggravate or inflame rather than inquire, inform or sincerely opine, put them on ignore through your settings, like I do. You'll find that your forum experience is much more pleasant and you can spend your valuable time reading posts that have information of value or interest to you.

I love the C7. Is it perfect? No. Did I expect it to be? No. Should there be well thought out discussions about how the car can be improved? Absolutely, IMO! Does bashing the car serve a purpose to the community at large? Absolutely not, IMO. Your thoughts?

Last edited by Stingray Sam; 07-14-2013 at 12:06 PM.
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