Corvette Versus Porsche from the eyes of a Porsche Guy lets moderate the trolls!
05-17-2013, 03:29 PM
#1
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Corvette Versus Porsche from the eyes of a Porsche Guy lets moderate the trolls!
First this is a Corvette forum, and I came here to hear about Corvettes there are too many people (or a few with more than one User name) that have taken to try and make a Porsche look good no matter what. they are influencing discussions with rhetoric that makes them attempt to sound so knowledgeable in destroying the Corvette compared to PorscheThe Germans respect Corvettes and they are run at multi marque track days all the time here. Go to the Ring or Spa here and see! The Corvette has actually won enough races over here to get the Europeans attention
Internet Brands has a Porsche site they own and you don't see Corvette nuts going on about how much better Corvettes are and how expensive Porsches can be to maintain or how expensive they are to fix.( IMS Failures from 99-08) They would be moderated into oblivion ( and have been) So why are they allowed here
A little goes a long way. I love the dynamics of Porsches but I also have come to love a front engine rear drive car that is now as good a road car as the World's best. If you look at it logically Chevrolet has made a world
class car that is now knocking on the door of companies that have been building great sports cars for years. I would maintain that it's time for the Porsche Trolls to be slowed down and get back to building the community of Corvette owners
Below is my history with the Porsche Marque if there is any question on my obsession with things Porsche. I have three Porsches here in Germany and am selling my C-6 to Purchase a C-7
Porsche is making excellent cars, but the old Porsche faithful are not going out and buying them at retail ( for the most part ) The depreciation of Porsches since the end of the 993 has been steep
150K sticker turbos from 02 and 03 are now selling for $40K with 60K miles. I was offered a 997 Turbo Cab with a 165K Sticker for $54K with 38 thousand miles. a $60K Boxster S new from 03 just traded hands for $15K The New cars are amazing but with what Porsche is pricing them at they need to be. In 07-09 Porsche was selling cars at 30 percent discounts and had to remake their brand. So the 991 which is selling 1-2 years old at a $20-30K discount is starting to hurt the market. They have slowed production on it and are focusing on the Cayenne (sells like crazy and drops its value like a rock 05- $80K sticker Cayenne S cars can be had for $16K
The C-7 Corvette is a car that can easily hurt Porsche. If it is close to as good and 47 percent less money It will make a dent. I reserve judgement until I drive one, but the people I know that have said it is a very large leap forward ( and they drive cars for a living)
My understanding is that there will be several cars and events available for us to compare them to the 911 (991) I will reserve judgement until I have been on a track with one, but I have seen a small group take a car and turn in into a car that will hold it's own on a road course. the C-6 was nervous and yes the interior was low grade. but driving one on the Autobahn or on a track was a treat.
THe new Porsches are depreciating like rocksThe early 911s up until 1998 are going up at a pace that is unbelievable a 73RS sold for $500K and a 67S for $70K that hasn't run for years and will require $100K restoration. The sheer small numbers of these cars made are making them go nuts.
My Porsche history
I will start with the fact that I own 18 Porsches from 1958 to 2005
only two were built after 1998 Only 2 Have been Brand New when I bought them
I at one time had 25 cars and have owned and own some rare and desirable cars of which very few were made. In all toll I have owned over 47 Porsches. I am not rich some may call me stupid. I am a card carrying member of 7 Porsche clubs. I have been a devout Porschephille for a long time. I am often invited to drive the new cars for a couple days a days or at the intros in Spain. I have written for several Porsche magazines, and participated at Porsche club events on 4 continents I have dined with or met 4 of the Porsche family and attended the Celebration of Life for Dr Ferry Porsche and Butzi Porsche his son and designer of the 911. I have paid my respects in person at the family site in Austria I own memorabilia that has become staggeringly valuable that I dont want to get rid of. I have worked the pits of the 24 Hours of Lemans when TRG Won, At Daytona with the winning GT Team and Several Supercup races (not to mention all the club races and Porsche Parades I have attended since before I had my license.
The plant in Bowling Green has as many hand built steps and QC processes as the plants in Zuffenhausen or Leipzig
maybe more If you seen both you know, not true in 1987 but now its as good as any.
Internet Brands has a Porsche site they own and you don't see Corvette nuts going on about how much better Corvettes are and how expensive Porsches can be to maintain or how expensive they are to fix.( IMS Failures from 99-08) They would be moderated into oblivion ( and have been) So why are they allowed here
A little goes a long way. I love the dynamics of Porsches but I also have come to love a front engine rear drive car that is now as good a road car as the World's best. If you look at it logically Chevrolet has made a world
class car that is now knocking on the door of companies that have been building great sports cars for years. I would maintain that it's time for the Porsche Trolls to be slowed down and get back to building the community of Corvette owners
Below is my history with the Porsche Marque if there is any question on my obsession with things Porsche. I have three Porsches here in Germany and am selling my C-6 to Purchase a C-7
Porsche is making excellent cars, but the old Porsche faithful are not going out and buying them at retail ( for the most part ) The depreciation of Porsches since the end of the 993 has been steep
150K sticker turbos from 02 and 03 are now selling for $40K with 60K miles. I was offered a 997 Turbo Cab with a 165K Sticker for $54K with 38 thousand miles. a $60K Boxster S new from 03 just traded hands for $15K The New cars are amazing but with what Porsche is pricing them at they need to be. In 07-09 Porsche was selling cars at 30 percent discounts and had to remake their brand. So the 991 which is selling 1-2 years old at a $20-30K discount is starting to hurt the market. They have slowed production on it and are focusing on the Cayenne (sells like crazy and drops its value like a rock 05- $80K sticker Cayenne S cars can be had for $16K
The C-7 Corvette is a car that can easily hurt Porsche. If it is close to as good and 47 percent less money It will make a dent. I reserve judgement until I drive one, but the people I know that have said it is a very large leap forward ( and they drive cars for a living)
My understanding is that there will be several cars and events available for us to compare them to the 911 (991) I will reserve judgement until I have been on a track with one, but I have seen a small group take a car and turn in into a car that will hold it's own on a road course. the C-6 was nervous and yes the interior was low grade. but driving one on the Autobahn or on a track was a treat.
THe new Porsches are depreciating like rocksThe early 911s up until 1998 are going up at a pace that is unbelievable a 73RS sold for $500K and a 67S for $70K that hasn't run for years and will require $100K restoration. The sheer small numbers of these cars made are making them go nuts.
My Porsche history
I will start with the fact that I own 18 Porsches from 1958 to 2005
only two were built after 1998 Only 2 Have been Brand New when I bought them
I at one time had 25 cars and have owned and own some rare and desirable cars of which very few were made. In all toll I have owned over 47 Porsches. I am not rich some may call me stupid. I am a card carrying member of 7 Porsche clubs. I have been a devout Porschephille for a long time. I am often invited to drive the new cars for a couple days a days or at the intros in Spain. I have written for several Porsche magazines, and participated at Porsche club events on 4 continents I have dined with or met 4 of the Porsche family and attended the Celebration of Life for Dr Ferry Porsche and Butzi Porsche his son and designer of the 911. I have paid my respects in person at the family site in Austria I own memorabilia that has become staggeringly valuable that I dont want to get rid of. I have worked the pits of the 24 Hours of Lemans when TRG Won, At Daytona with the winning GT Team and Several Supercup races (not to mention all the club races and Porsche Parades I have attended since before I had my license.
The plant in Bowling Green has as many hand built steps and QC processes as the plants in Zuffenhausen or Leipzig
maybe more If you seen both you know, not true in 1987 but now its as good as any.
Last edited by Gmumd48; 05-17-2013 at 03:34 PM.
05-17-2013, 04:09 PM
#2
First this is a Corvette forum, and I came here to hear about Corvettes there are too many people (or a few with more than one User name) that have taken to try and make a Porsche look good no matter what. they are influencing discussions with rhetoric that makes them attempt to sound so knowledgeable in destroying the Corvette compared to PorscheThe Germans respect Corvettes and they are run at multi marque track days all the time here. Go to the Ring or Spa here and see! The Corvette has actually won enough races over here to get the Europeans attention
Internet Brands has a Porsche site they own and you don't see Corvette nuts going on about how much better Corvettes are and how expensive Porsches can be to maintain or how expensive they are to fix.( IMS Failures from 99-08) They would be moderated into oblivion ( and have been) So why are they allowed here
A little goes a long way. I love the dynamics of Porsches but I also have come to love a front engine rear drive car that is now as good a road car as the World's best. If you look at it logically Chevrolet has made a world
class car that is now knocking on the door of companies that have been building great sports cars for years. I would maintain that it's time for the Porsche Trolls to be slowed down and get back to building the community of Corvette owners
Below is my history with the Porsche Marque if there is any question on my obsession with things Porsche. I have three Porsches here in Germany and am selling my C-6 to Purchase a C-7
Porsche is making excellent cars, but the old Porsche faithful are not going out and buying them at retail ( for the most part ) The depreciation of Porsches since the end of the 993 has been steep
150K sticker turbos from 02 and 03 are now selling for $40K with 60K miles. I was offered a 997 Turbo Cab with a 165K Sticker for $54K with 38 thousand miles. a $60K Boxster S new from 03 just traded hands for $15K The New cars are amazing but with what Porsche is pricing them at they need to be. In 07-09 Porsche was selling cars at 30 percent discounts and had to remake their brand. So the 991 which is selling 1-2 years old at a $20-30K discount is starting to hurt the market. They have slowed production on it and are focusing on the Cayenne (sells like crazy and drops its value like a rock 05- $80K sticker Cayenne S cars can be had for $16K
The C-7 Corvette is a car that can easily hurt Porsche. If it is close to as good and 47 percent less money It will make a dent. I reserve judgement until I drive one, but the people I know that have said it is a very large leap forward ( and they drive cars for a living)
My understanding is that there will be several cars and events available for us to compare them to the 911 (991) I will reserve judgement until I have been on a track with one, but I have seen a small group take a car and turn in into a car that will hold it's own on a road course. the C-6 was nervous and yes the interior was low grade. but driving one on the Autobahn or on a track was a treat.
THe new Porsches are depreciating like rocksThe early 911s up until 1998 are going up at a pace that is unbelievable a 73RS sold for $500K and a 67S for $70K that hasn't run for years and will require $100K restoration. The sheer small numbers of these cars made are making them go nuts.
My Porsche history
I will start with the fact that I own 18 Porsches from 1958 to 2005
only two were built after 1998 Only 2 Have been Brand New when I bought them
I at one time had 25 cars and have owned and own some rare and desirable cars of which very few were made. In all toll I have owned over 47 Porsches. I am not rich some may call me stupid. I am a card carrying member of 7 Porsche clubs. I have been a devout Porschephille for a long time. I am often invited to drive the new cars for a couple days a days or at the intros in Spain. I have written for several Porsche magazines, and participated at Porsche club events on 4 continents I have dined with or met 4 of the Porsche family and attended the Celebration of Life for Dr Ferry Porsche and Butzi Porsche his son and designer of the 911. I have paid my respects in person at the family site in Austria I own memorabilia that has become staggeringly valuable that I dont want to get rid of. I have worked the pits of the 24 Hours of Lemans when TRG Won, At Daytona with the winning GT Team and Several Supercup races (not to mention all the club races and Porsche Parades I have attended since before I had my license.
The plant in Bowling Green has as many hand built steps and QC processes as the plants in Zuffenhausen or Leipzig
maybe more If you seen both you know, not true in 1987 but now its as good as any.
Internet Brands has a Porsche site they own and you don't see Corvette nuts going on about how much better Corvettes are and how expensive Porsches can be to maintain or how expensive they are to fix.( IMS Failures from 99-08) They would be moderated into oblivion ( and have been) So why are they allowed here
A little goes a long way. I love the dynamics of Porsches but I also have come to love a front engine rear drive car that is now as good a road car as the World's best. If you look at it logically Chevrolet has made a world
class car that is now knocking on the door of companies that have been building great sports cars for years. I would maintain that it's time for the Porsche Trolls to be slowed down and get back to building the community of Corvette owners
Below is my history with the Porsche Marque if there is any question on my obsession with things Porsche. I have three Porsches here in Germany and am selling my C-6 to Purchase a C-7
Porsche is making excellent cars, but the old Porsche faithful are not going out and buying them at retail ( for the most part ) The depreciation of Porsches since the end of the 993 has been steep
150K sticker turbos from 02 and 03 are now selling for $40K with 60K miles. I was offered a 997 Turbo Cab with a 165K Sticker for $54K with 38 thousand miles. a $60K Boxster S new from 03 just traded hands for $15K The New cars are amazing but with what Porsche is pricing them at they need to be. In 07-09 Porsche was selling cars at 30 percent discounts and had to remake their brand. So the 991 which is selling 1-2 years old at a $20-30K discount is starting to hurt the market. They have slowed production on it and are focusing on the Cayenne (sells like crazy and drops its value like a rock 05- $80K sticker Cayenne S cars can be had for $16K
The C-7 Corvette is a car that can easily hurt Porsche. If it is close to as good and 47 percent less money It will make a dent. I reserve judgement until I drive one, but the people I know that have said it is a very large leap forward ( and they drive cars for a living)
My understanding is that there will be several cars and events available for us to compare them to the 911 (991) I will reserve judgement until I have been on a track with one, but I have seen a small group take a car and turn in into a car that will hold it's own on a road course. the C-6 was nervous and yes the interior was low grade. but driving one on the Autobahn or on a track was a treat.
THe new Porsches are depreciating like rocksThe early 911s up until 1998 are going up at a pace that is unbelievable a 73RS sold for $500K and a 67S for $70K that hasn't run for years and will require $100K restoration. The sheer small numbers of these cars made are making them go nuts.
My Porsche history
I will start with the fact that I own 18 Porsches from 1958 to 2005
only two were built after 1998 Only 2 Have been Brand New when I bought them
I at one time had 25 cars and have owned and own some rare and desirable cars of which very few were made. In all toll I have owned over 47 Porsches. I am not rich some may call me stupid. I am a card carrying member of 7 Porsche clubs. I have been a devout Porschephille for a long time. I am often invited to drive the new cars for a couple days a days or at the intros in Spain. I have written for several Porsche magazines, and participated at Porsche club events on 4 continents I have dined with or met 4 of the Porsche family and attended the Celebration of Life for Dr Ferry Porsche and Butzi Porsche his son and designer of the 911. I have paid my respects in person at the family site in Austria I own memorabilia that has become staggeringly valuable that I dont want to get rid of. I have worked the pits of the 24 Hours of Lemans when TRG Won, At Daytona with the winning GT Team and Several Supercup races (not to mention all the club races and Porsche Parades I have attended since before I had my license.
The plant in Bowling Green has as many hand built steps and QC processes as the plants in Zuffenhausen or Leipzig
maybe more If you seen both you know, not true in 1987 but now its as good as any.
05-17-2013, 04:20 PM
#4
Good read. Thanks for posting. Now tell us what was/is your favorite Porsche and what made you decide to want to own a Corvette? What is it about the C7 that catches your attention?
05-17-2013, 04:29 PM
#5
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St. Jude Donor '15
"In honor of jpee"
I didn't know all that background on you! Very interesting.
05-17-2013, 04:40 PM
#6
The Consigliere
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OP - interesting post. Nice to hear from somebody with hands-on experience.
05-17-2013, 04:50 PM
#8
Racer
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Porsches
Its hard to say I love them all, and so my wife doesn't read this and makes me get rid of the rest, I have a 73 Gulf blue targa ( with Gulf Orange trim ) that is not stock and a 68s that have soft spots
Depends on the day
My 356s are great fun but in Germany the 993 C2S is always finding the long way home and the 993 speed yellow cab when the sun is out
I really respect what Chevy has done and although I still love Porsches the many of the cars lack the soul and ping of the hand made cars
I think the C-7 is exciting from what I have heard from those who have driven the proto I reserve judgement till I have some time in one
THe C-7 is a car that they listened to the criticisms and used what they learned from racing, I thinks its exciting ( but that doesn't make me like Porsches less)
I get to drive the car on the autobahn and the C-7 will be a rocket, It is unique and the sound of a V-8 is different but amazing while driving in the curvy back roads we have.
Depends on the day
My 356s are great fun but in Germany the 993 C2S is always finding the long way home and the 993 speed yellow cab when the sun is out
I really respect what Chevy has done and although I still love Porsches the many of the cars lack the soul and ping of the hand made cars
I think the C-7 is exciting from what I have heard from those who have driven the proto I reserve judgement till I have some time in one
THe C-7 is a car that they listened to the criticisms and used what they learned from racing, I thinks its exciting ( but that doesn't make me like Porsches less)
I get to drive the car on the autobahn and the C-7 will be a rocket, It is unique and the sound of a V-8 is different but amazing while driving in the curvy back roads we have.
05-17-2013, 04:53 PM
#9
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05-17-2013, 05:03 PM
#10
Team Owner
Gmumd48,
I've never owned Porsche and don't plan to ever own one. I'm a Corvette person and if I ever leave the Corvette fold, it will not be because Porsche lured me away, but because GM drove me away.
You seem to want to get the point across that most Porsche buyers in Europe buy used Porsches.
Who is buying all those new Porsches so that they can become used Porsches, or does Porsches have a secret factory where they build used Porsches for the used car market in Europe?
I've never owned Porsche and don't plan to ever own one. I'm a Corvette person and if I ever leave the Corvette fold, it will not be because Porsche lured me away, but because GM drove me away.
You seem to want to get the point across that most Porsche buyers in Europe buy used Porsches.
Who is buying all those new Porsches so that they can become used Porsches, or does Porsches have a secret factory where they build used Porsches for the used car market in Europe?
Last edited by JoesC5; 05-17-2013 at 05:06 PM.
05-17-2013, 05:07 PM
#11
Corvettes selling in europe
I'm curious on your opinion, if a base corvette sold for say 60k US in Europe do you think it would do well? I was stationed in Germany, Baumholder and Babenhausen, in the Army and know about the crazy tariffs/taxes or whatever you call them that we here in America do not do to the Europeans.
Thanks
Thanks
05-17-2013, 05:13 PM
#12
Racer
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Porsche sells more cars in the US than Europe !
They get resold quite often ( leasing Porsches is huge)
As many people buy used Porsches in the States, its just knw the europeans are buying many of them in the states and sending them back to Europe
I am glad you are loyal to something, A Porsche is an amazing automobile, you will find you might like it is not a dragster but a curvy road specialist. Now that GM is doing the same with the Corvette its great for America
As many people buy used Porsches in the States, its just knw the europeans are buying many of them in the states and sending them back to Europe
I am glad you are loyal to something, A Porsche is an amazing automobile, you will find you might like it is not a dragster but a curvy road specialist. Now that GM is doing the same with the Corvette its great for America
Gmumd48,
I've never owned Porsche and don't plan to ever own one. I'm a Corvette person and if I ever leave the Corvette fold, it will not be because Porsche lured me away, but because GM drove me away.
You seem to want to get the point across that most Porsche buyers in Europe buy used Porsches.
Who is buying all those new Porsches so that they can become used Porsches, or does Porsches have a secret factory where they build used Porsches for the used car market in Europe?
I've never owned Porsche and don't plan to ever own one. I'm a Corvette person and if I ever leave the Corvette fold, it will not be because Porsche lured me away, but because GM drove me away.
You seem to want to get the point across that most Porsche buyers in Europe buy used Porsches.
Who is buying all those new Porsches so that they can become used Porsches, or does Porsches have a secret factory where they build used Porsches for the used car market in Europe?
05-17-2013, 05:25 PM
#13
All I know is that if you stuff 2 guys my size in a Porsche, there isn't much room left for air. Corvette is way roomier inside. Without even getting into the capabilities of the 2 cars.
05-17-2013, 05:59 PM
#14
Race Director
Just as corvettes are iconic sports cars so are porsches ...
Thanks for your insights
Thanks for your insights
05-17-2013, 07:34 PM
#16
Banned Scam/Spammer
Very well stated Carlos. I agree. Porsches pretty much suck across the board when you consider what the price of these things are. A Boxster S for over 80 grand? Get real. A Z06 at that price rips a lap at VIR 11 seconds faster. That is pathetic for Porsche, bad value, stick with Corvette.
05-17-2013, 07:42 PM
#17
Race Director
When I see my neighbor who always gives me a wave ...with his beautiful 911 turbo who has a new turbo 911 on order as they become available....I always give his choice the proper respect he deserves..
More important than any car is to respect each sports car enthusiast choices...
The 911 turbo and non turbos rock although I prefer corvettes.....
Just different flavors of cool ...
More important than any car is to respect each sports car enthusiast choices...
The 911 turbo and non turbos rock although I prefer corvettes.....
Just different flavors of cool ...
05-17-2013, 09:06 PM
#18
Team Owner
Member Since: Jun 2005
Location: Northern, VA
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St. Jude Donor '15
"In honor of jpee"
When I see my neighbor who always gives me a wave ...with his beautiful 911 turbo who has a new turbo 911 on order as they become available....I always give his choice the proper respect he deserves..
More important than any car is to respect each sports car enthusiast choices...
The 911 turbo and non turbos rock although I prefer corvettes.....
Just different flavors of cool ...
More important than any car is to respect each sports car enthusiast choices...
The 911 turbo and non turbos rock although I prefer corvettes.....
Just different flavors of cool ...
05-17-2013, 10:15 PM
#19
Burning Brakes
OP:
Since you probably have more experience with Porsche than anyone I will ever know, I have to ask you a few questions. Hopefully I can put this in words that make some kind of sense. Here we go...
Corvette has many loyal customers and some that will be Vette owners for life. However, the question of build quality and lack of GM taking responsibility for some catastrophic failures that have left many with much out of pocket expenses has driven away people from Corvettes and GM in general. Vettes are a great bang for the buck sports car which more people can afford than most Porsches but GM has earned a reputation for sub par products with questionable reliability.
Now, we know that Porsche build quality is good. But how about in terms of reliability or maintenance? I have read up on some 911's and learned that some earlier models had complete engine failures with relatively low miles. Do Porsche owners just tend to be more wealthy to the point they can just take their losses and buy a new one or does Porsche usually step in a take responsibility when the car tends to have an engineering issue?
There just seems to be less pissed off Porsche owners out their compared with the Vette owners who swear to themselves they will never buy a GM product again.... What is the catalyst here?
I myself have owned several Corvettes which both had their share of issues but I do plan on owning another so I'm not trying to talk bad about Corvettes. I'm just interested in your point of view.
Since you probably have more experience with Porsche than anyone I will ever know, I have to ask you a few questions. Hopefully I can put this in words that make some kind of sense. Here we go...
Corvette has many loyal customers and some that will be Vette owners for life. However, the question of build quality and lack of GM taking responsibility for some catastrophic failures that have left many with much out of pocket expenses has driven away people from Corvettes and GM in general. Vettes are a great bang for the buck sports car which more people can afford than most Porsches but GM has earned a reputation for sub par products with questionable reliability.
Now, we know that Porsche build quality is good. But how about in terms of reliability or maintenance? I have read up on some 911's and learned that some earlier models had complete engine failures with relatively low miles. Do Porsche owners just tend to be more wealthy to the point they can just take their losses and buy a new one or does Porsche usually step in a take responsibility when the car tends to have an engineering issue?
There just seems to be less pissed off Porsche owners out their compared with the Vette owners who swear to themselves they will never buy a GM product again.... What is the catalyst here?
I myself have owned several Corvettes which both had their share of issues but I do plan on owning another so I'm not trying to talk bad about Corvettes. I'm just interested in your point of view.
05-17-2013, 10:20 PM
#20
Melting Slicks
which one of the 18 do you drive on the 'ring
Gmumd48
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Garage is empty, add now
My Corvette Photos
Member Since: Oct 2006
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Gmumd48
CF Senior Member
Garage is empty, add now
My Corvette Photos
Member Since: Oct 2006
Location: American in Germany 1 Hour to the ring fast
Last edited by 05dsom; 05-17-2013 at 10:22 PM.
