Corvette Versus Porsche from the eyes of a Porsche Guy lets moderate the trolls!
08-12-2013, 06:16 PM
#201
Melting Slicks
I liked the OP's post but found it ironic . . . I 've been riding motorcycles for 35 years. Never had a Harley . . . only Japanese and European bikes. But the Harley guys love their rides, and most would never consider a Japanese machine or BMW . . . even if its got newer technology, better performance or higher reliability.
Now that I bought a Corvette seems you can substitute Harley and BMW/Honda with Corvette and Porsche and its almost the same discussions.
I say good for variety and choices . . . buy what you like and respect others choices to buy what they want as well.
That said, my friend who is a jeweler once told me the more you spend on a watch the worse time it will keep, so always have a Timex in the drawer. And thats why I always have my Toyota RAV4 parked next to my fancy sports cars. Craig
Now that I bought a Corvette seems you can substitute Harley and BMW/Honda with Corvette and Porsche and its almost the same discussions.
I say good for variety and choices . . . buy what you like and respect others choices to buy what they want as well.
That said, my friend who is a jeweler once told me the more you spend on a watch the worse time it will keep, so always have a Timex in the drawer. And thats why I always have my Toyota RAV4 parked next to my fancy sports cars. Craig
Last edited by csf; 08-12-2013 at 06:19 PM.
08-12-2013, 06:33 PM
#202
Race Director
Listen to this weeks autoline Detroit discussion as most journalist will freely admit it is the CUV s that create the volume as well as the panamera that keep Porsche in business.
Yes the shared platform of the 911 and boxsters did create an economy of scale back when the two seater was created following advice from Toyota production ideals but it was the influx of CUV buyers that brought Porsche back from the brink this last time . The first was with the synergy of both the 911 and the Boxster sharing a dramatic amount of development but that did **** off many 911 owners....
I like the Porsche brand but to speak of the product to the degree that it is superior to corvette even as the new c7 releases is an error. The 911 is a boutique item, its quaint, its unique because of its cost......much in ths same way but not to the same degree as Aston Martin.
Product development, quality and advanced engineering can be evaluated in many ways.
Just utilizing performance, reliability and cost of ownership with regards to maintanience for the vehicle...I personally feel the engineering task was better accomplished by the corvette c7 team than their German counterparts at Porsche.
We can each have our own perspective and as an educated and successful consumer many of us..(especially at corvette forum) can appreciate the expertise the corvette team utilized in developing this new car.
Faster, handles better, costs almost half as much and over any period of time discussed will run as a daily driver with minimal costs...
Surely we will continue to disagree and yet I hope I have respectfully communicated this as I truly do admire the 911s as it recently released.
Just not as much as I do corvette.
The American engineering on the corvette is in my opinion superior to the much heralded boutique brand Porsche.
The new smaller CUV ...the Macanese also caught my attention and I to believe it will be an interesting new product.
Many wonder with the base cayenne priced at 49 grand v6 manual...what the new Macan will come in at? 43 grand? These CUV s will continue to be what Porsche becomes known for (possibly questioning why the 911 still exists)and as discussed on auto line after hours last week on autoline.tv. The hosts were admitted Porsche fans as you so you might find the 1 hour show interesting...
Good shooting the breeze even if we disagree on which sports car we each pref.
Yes the shared platform of the 911 and boxsters did create an economy of scale back when the two seater was created following advice from Toyota production ideals but it was the influx of CUV buyers that brought Porsche back from the brink this last time . The first was with the synergy of both the 911 and the Boxster sharing a dramatic amount of development but that did **** off many 911 owners....
I like the Porsche brand but to speak of the product to the degree that it is superior to corvette even as the new c7 releases is an error. The 911 is a boutique item, its quaint, its unique because of its cost......much in ths same way but not to the same degree as Aston Martin.
Product development, quality and advanced engineering can be evaluated in many ways.
Just utilizing performance, reliability and cost of ownership with regards to maintanience for the vehicle...I personally feel the engineering task was better accomplished by the corvette c7 team than their German counterparts at Porsche.
We can each have our own perspective and as an educated and successful consumer many of us..(especially at corvette forum) can appreciate the expertise the corvette team utilized in developing this new car.
Faster, handles better, costs almost half as much and over any period of time discussed will run as a daily driver with minimal costs...
Surely we will continue to disagree and yet I hope I have respectfully communicated this as I truly do admire the 911s as it recently released.
Just not as much as I do corvette.
The American engineering on the corvette is in my opinion superior to the much heralded boutique brand Porsche.
The new smaller CUV ...the Macanese also caught my attention and I to believe it will be an interesting new product.
Many wonder with the base cayenne priced at 49 grand v6 manual...what the new Macan will come in at? 43 grand? These CUV s will continue to be what Porsche becomes known for (possibly questioning why the 911 still exists)and as discussed on auto line after hours last week on autoline.tv. The hosts were admitted Porsche fans as you so you might find the 1 hour show interesting...
Good shooting the breeze even if we disagree on which sports car we each pref.
Last edited by JerriVette; 08-12-2013 at 06:37 PM.
08-12-2013, 08:28 PM
#203
Most journalists are on Autoline Detroit?
Porsche will continue selling the 911 as long as it is profitable. Companies don't necessarily kill off cars just because one is more profitable than another. The 911, Cayman, and Boxster are quaint boutique items...which sold in volumes of 38k worldwide last year.
It's way too soon to say much about handling and reliability. We can marvel at the price of the Corvette, and consider product development and engineering, etc. But the price of automobile is often determined by its product placement, under which almost everything else falls into place.
Porsche will continue selling the 911 as long as it is profitable. Companies don't necessarily kill off cars just because one is more profitable than another. The 911, Cayman, and Boxster are quaint boutique items...which sold in volumes of 38k worldwide last year.
It's way too soon to say much about handling and reliability. We can marvel at the price of the Corvette, and consider product development and engineering, etc. But the price of automobile is often determined by its product placement, under which almost everything else falls into place.
08-12-2013, 09:10 PM
#204
Race Director
08-12-2013, 09:43 PM
#206
Race Director
Most journalists are on Autoline Detroit?
Porsche will continue selling the 911 as long as it is profitable. Companies don't necessarily kill off cars just because one is more profitable than another. The 911, Cayman, and Boxster are quaint boutique items...which sold in volumes of 38k worldwide last year.
It's way too soon to say much about handling and reliability. We can marvel at the price of the Corvette, and consider product development and engineering, etc. But the price of automobile is often determined by its product placement, under which almost everything else falls into place.
Porsche will continue selling the 911 as long as it is profitable. Companies don't necessarily kill off cars just because one is more profitable than another. The 911, Cayman, and Boxster are quaint boutique items...which sold in volumes of 38k worldwide last year.
It's way too soon to say much about handling and reliability. We can marvel at the price of the Corvette, and consider product development and engineering, etc. But the price of automobile is often determined by its product placement, under which almost everything else falls into place.
Listen to this weeks autoline after hours if you are a Porsche enthusiasts....as you would most probably enjoy the conversation of the panelists...
If not....and you prefer to just stay on corvette forum to discuss the nuances of the Porsche mystique......beyond mear performance numbers and track time.
I understand that the boxster S, the Cayman S, and the 911S are wonderful vehicles...they are small alternative to higher performance sports cars like corvette...
Interesting review of the new C7 as it transcends the high performance statistics and includes a beautiful interior and getting accolades for its driver feel...
The subjective remarks that porsches are superior to less expensive sportscars because of their subjective feel might just be reaching..
Enjoy the autoline.tv show if you get there.
08-12-2013, 10:01 PM
#207
Burning Brakes
Subjective??? Anyone that thinks an American Interior is even close to Audi has some very odd taste. Audi has set the standard for many years now, it is not even close. American cars have better resale, are you crazy??? Especially Cadillac and Lincoln, there resale is close to Range Rover and Jaguar. People liked the C7 Interior over the R8 and M6, that is absolutely ridiculous. MPG you think American cars beat out foreign ones, once again you are way off. Compare similar cars with similar Power and it is not even close. You can say the Vette gets better MPG than the Porsche, reality is it is not close in real world driving. The Vette has to install the Skip-shift to get those numbers.
I do agree American is getting MUCH better, my Dodge Ram is a 2012 and the interior was much nicer than the one made several years ago. The New Mustangs Interior is light years nicer than my Shelby. They still have a ways to go to reach Audi, with the Unions it is going to be very difficult to do, they have a huge disadvantage over non-union manufacturers, but that is a whole different topic.
It is so funny how a few of you think some of us are trolls, although we have not bashed the Vette at all, as a matter of fact most of us that Prefer Porsche including myself say it is a better Bang for the Buck, there is no denying that.
A good friend of mine has a Z06, until he drove in my 911 he did not know why everyone bashed the Corvette Interior, as soon as he saw mine he said "Now I know what a Nice interior is supposed to look like." He respects my car for what it is as I do his car, both great cars, but to say the build quality is even close means you have not looked at both. Is that build quality worth the premium, probably not, Porsche makes more on a car than most. That is not because of the Status, it is because it is a Great Car.
By the way I am on here because if the Interior is as nice as they claim I would consider a Vette, I would prefer to buy American.
I do agree American is getting MUCH better, my Dodge Ram is a 2012 and the interior was much nicer than the one made several years ago. The New Mustangs Interior is light years nicer than my Shelby. They still have a ways to go to reach Audi, with the Unions it is going to be very difficult to do, they have a huge disadvantage over non-union manufacturers, but that is a whole different topic.
It is so funny how a few of you think some of us are trolls, although we have not bashed the Vette at all, as a matter of fact most of us that Prefer Porsche including myself say it is a better Bang for the Buck, there is no denying that.
A good friend of mine has a Z06, until he drove in my 911 he did not know why everyone bashed the Corvette Interior, as soon as he saw mine he said "Now I know what a Nice interior is supposed to look like." He respects my car for what it is as I do his car, both great cars, but to say the build quality is even close means you have not looked at both. Is that build quality worth the premium, probably not, Porsche makes more on a car than most. That is not because of the Status, it is because it is a Great Car.
By the way I am on here because if the Interior is as nice as they claim I would consider a Vette, I would prefer to buy American.
Last edited by Carnut12; 08-12-2013 at 10:03 PM.
08-12-2013, 10:55 PM
#208
Race Director
Really think none of us have sat in or driven an audi? Mercedes? BMW? Porsche?
Are you kidding?
Thanks for sharing your opinion.
Enjoy your perceptions......
Are you kidding?
Thanks for sharing your opinion.
Enjoy your perceptions......
Last edited by JerriVette; 08-12-2013 at 10:59 PM.
08-13-2013, 12:25 AM
#209
Instructor
The reason German cars are expensive is because the US dollar is worthless. I have a 993 Turbo with bla, bla, bla and an 2012 GS L4T Centennial Vert. Both are as dependable as my F150.
And I am REALLY interested to see the C7 Z06. I have room in the garaj...
And I am REALLY interested to see the C7 Z06. I have room in the garaj...
Last edited by Tour18; 08-13-2013 at 12:27 AM.
08-13-2013, 04:02 AM
#210
Is this the episode you're talking about? Starts at 13:21:
08-13-2013, 04:46 AM
#211
"Average compensation (a figure including wages and employer-paid benefits) for autoworkers in Germany was 48.97 Euros per hour ($67.14 US), while compensation for auto work in the United States averaged $33.77 per hour, or about half as much as in Germany, all according to 2007 data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics."
http://www.remappingdebate.org/artic...stems?page=0,0
For people who insist that the 911 should cost as little as the Corvette, ask yourself why considering:
Exchange rates
Labor costs
More bespoke engineering and production (flat-6 architecture isn't being spread across millions of trucks/SUVs; leather is cut and sewn in-house)
Higher level of luxury and safety equipment
Product positioning
Why would they cannibalize their own Boxster/Cayman sales?
What do you suppose might happen to Corvette sales if the 911 were offered at the same price? (I know some here won't take the 911 at any price, but not everyone thinks that way.)
Why would Porsche vacate a segment in which they're already doing quite well?
Why would they knowingly leave profit on the table, when they know darn well they can bank it?
08-13-2013, 08:45 AM
#212
Pro
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Quality isthe name of the game with high priced sports cars. The Cadillac XLR and XLR-V tried to compete with the Mercedes Benz SL. Only sold about 15,000 cars in 9 years. Gone.
There was no way the XLR was going to compete with the SL. Quality was the big difference.
The ZR1 at $130,000 suffers from the same lack of quality and sells only 500 cars a year. Correct me if I am wrong here.
Porsche sells lots of cars in the $100,000 and up price range. Performance is about the same as Corvette. Price is much higher than Corvette. Quality is the difference. All Corvette owners seem to talk about is their big motor. Quality for the first time in the C6.5 is mentioned after years of KMART interiors.
Build quality, high quality dealerships and service are why Porsche can charge and get their high prices. In addition, you can custom build your Porsche from a long line of options.
A Chevrolet, even Cadillac quality is no match for Porsche, Audi, or Mercedes Benz.
The XLR=V is a good example. There were dreaming over at GM to think that car would compete with the SL.
There was no way the XLR was going to compete with the SL. Quality was the big difference.
The ZR1 at $130,000 suffers from the same lack of quality and sells only 500 cars a year. Correct me if I am wrong here.
Porsche sells lots of cars in the $100,000 and up price range. Performance is about the same as Corvette. Price is much higher than Corvette. Quality is the difference. All Corvette owners seem to talk about is their big motor. Quality for the first time in the C6.5 is mentioned after years of KMART interiors.
Build quality, high quality dealerships and service are why Porsche can charge and get their high prices. In addition, you can custom build your Porsche from a long line of options.
A Chevrolet, even Cadillac quality is no match for Porsche, Audi, or Mercedes Benz.
The XLR=V is a good example. There were dreaming over at GM to think that car would compete with the SL.
08-13-2013, 10:29 AM
#213
Pro
Member Since: Dec 2007
Location: Montgomery Alabama
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St. Jude Donor '09
A lot of the higher end cars are touted as superior based from legend and not facts. In the past; fewer people owned them and only relied upon passed down misinformation and a little snobbery as well. Now with so many actual owners and tons of magazines and automotive tv shows; it's a lot more difficult to maintain the status quo. Technology instantly delivers information in real time and in real word situations.
Car companies can not rely on legend any longer. The car has to be good to compete. All cars has their flaws, but they can no longer ignore them. The internet nation will tell on you.
Car companies can not rely on legend any longer. The car has to be good to compete. All cars has their flaws, but they can no longer ignore them. The internet nation will tell on you.
08-13-2013, 10:59 AM
#214
Banned Scam/Spammer
Most journalists are on Autoline Detroit?
Porsche will continue selling the 911 as long as it is profitable. Companies don't necessarily kill off cars just because one is more profitable than another. The 911, Cayman, and Boxster are quaint boutique items...which sold in volumes of 38k worldwide last year.
It's way too soon to say much about handling and reliability. We can marvel at the price of the Corvette, and consider product development and engineering, etc. But the price of automobile is often determined by its product placement, under which almost everything else falls into place.
Porsche will continue selling the 911 as long as it is profitable. Companies don't necessarily kill off cars just because one is more profitable than another. The 911, Cayman, and Boxster are quaint boutique items...which sold in volumes of 38k worldwide last year.
It's way too soon to say much about handling and reliability. We can marvel at the price of the Corvette, and consider product development and engineering, etc. But the price of automobile is often determined by its product placement, under which almost everything else falls into place.
08-13-2013, 11:28 AM
#215
Burning Brakes
Porsches are great cars, but so are Corvettes
Having owned a 997 Carrera (which I bought new), when the time came to get another sports car, I looked at the new Carrera S but opted for the C7 sight unseen. I believe the Corvette team has got the engineering skills and understands the car-guy needs to truly make a world-class car. Personally, I think that American auto makers are awakening and now showing the world what they are capable of, and the new C7 will be a world-beater at a fraction of the cost of a Porsche, Audi R8, or Ferrari. I also think the Corvette QC will be as good or better than any of them as the GM team seems focused on ensuring they get this right from the start.
The Porsche was a great car, but the C7 should be even better, and the V8 front engine with all that torque will be intoxicating. Go USA!
The Porsche was a great car, but the C7 should be even better, and the V8 front engine with all that torque will be intoxicating. Go USA!
08-13-2013, 12:07 PM
#217
I don't need to get a grip. What you need is to tell me why a car made in another country with higher wages, built to a higher standard of quality, then imported, should cost the same or less than one built by lower wage workers, and which does not need to be imported.
08-13-2013, 12:16 PM
#218
Banned Scam/Spammer
I was replying to
I don't need to get a grip. What you need is to tell me why a car made in another country with higher wages, built to a higher standard of quality, then imported, should cost the same or less than one built by lower wage workers, and which does not need to be imported.
I don't need to get a grip. What you need is to tell me why a car made in another country with higher wages, built to a higher standard of quality, then imported, should cost the same or less than one built by lower wage workers, and which does not need to be imported.
08-13-2013, 12:21 PM
#219
Le Mans Master
American cars span a huge range now, and, even have large percentages of foreign content. Some are European models being built in the U.S. and Mexico. In aggregate, American cars are perfectly competitive with imports.
By the way, I am having to take my foreign car in for a recall that involves drilling holes in the body, something I never had to do with any of my "American" cars.
Michael
Last edited by Michael A; 08-13-2013 at 12:24 PM.
