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Old 05-08-2013, 11:34 AM   #1
0Halltech
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Default 1.47 HP/Cubic Inch

I predicted 490 HP a number of months ago. Maybe GM knows something I don't know about math.

Think about this. The 2012 Chevrolet Camaro LFX V6 Engine is rated at 323 Horsepower. Direct Injection rules!! http://gmauthority.com/blog/2011/04/...23-horsepower/

The LT1 will be 6.2 liters or 72.22% more displacement that the mini 6 cylinder Camaro. Do the math.

Oh, and the Camaro Z28 will be horsepower king at 505+ HP? Right. If that happens, GM will never live it down. Obviously a Supercharged ZL1 will trump the LT1, but I do not believe for one minute the Camaro all motor 427 will.

If you do the math based on the DOHC mini 6 cylinder hp/ci, the interpolation for the LT1 would be 556 HP.

Jim Hall

Last edited by Halltech; 05-08-2013 at 11:43 AM.
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:49 AM   #2
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Correct me if I am wrong but, hasn't GM had Camaros that were momentarily more powerful than Corvettes before?

-Alex
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:50 AM   #3
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I think the power figure will be below 500 for the LT1. I have no qualms about the Z28 having superior power figures. They are both Chevrolets but the entry level Camaro is a 6 cylinder offering. So a hard egded Camaro a couple of rungs up on the Camaro ladder edging out the entry level Corvette isn't so bad. Interesting predictions though! I will enjoy seeing how close you are.
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:53 AM   #4
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So you think that the 3.6 liter 6 cylinder motor will have more power/cubic inch than the LT1?

Explain please.

Forget the Camaro stuff for a moment. That is just a marketing thing, and you could be right about that. The weight/power will go to the Corvette for sure.

The only advantage the 3.6 L 219.7 cubic inch Camaro motor has over the LT1 is overhead cams. Chevy has already proven that they can squeeze as much hp out of the pushrod motors as ohc.
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:55 AM   #5
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We know they're holding something back. Not just peak HP, (which really isn't THAT important other than marketing) but it's slipped that the new motor power curve stays fairly high over 7000 RPM. Peak power is cool and all, but a motor that climbs smooth and stays high over 3000 RPMS, sustaining its peak power through ~1000 RPMs is just plain nuts.

I'm really looking forward for the real reveal on the performance specs. All we've gotten so far is little marketing crumbs. It could very well be 500+, but it could also be something different across the RPM range.

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Old 05-08-2013, 11:57 AM   #6
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I'm sticking with 475. As I said earlier it accomplishes everything GM needs it to:


1) 475hp makes the base C7 significantly faster than both the base C6 & GrandSport C6.

2) 475hp makes the C7Z51 "competitive" with the outgoing C6Z06.

3) 475hp leaves plenty of room for HP increases in future model years of the base C7.

4) 475hp leaves plenty of room for a 550-600hp C7Z06 427ci, should GM decide to bring LT1 upgrades to the LS7 engine.
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:00 PM   #7
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One more way to look at it. Lets say you add two more cylinders to the 3.6L 6 making it a 4.8 liter V-8, with exactly the same cylinder configuration, timing, valve gear, etc. That would be a 440 HP motor. 292.9 cubic inches and 440HP!
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:03 PM   #8
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That motor actually makes the V6 Camaro a fairly attractive package. I had an LT1 C4 with 10% less hp and it didn't get nearly the 30mpg they are claiming for the LFX in the Camaro.
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:04 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halltech View Post
I predicted 490 HP a number of months ago. Maybe GM knows something I don't know about math.

Think about this. The 2012 Chevrolet Camaro LFX V6 Engine is rated at 323 Horsepower. Direct Injection rules!! http://gmauthority.com/blog/2011/04/...23-horsepower/

The LT1 will be 6.2 liters or 72.22% more displacement that the mini 6 cylinder Camaro. Do the math.

Oh, and the Camaro Z28 will be horsepower king at 505+ HP? Right. If that happens, GM will never live it down. Obviously a Supercharged ZL1 will trump the LT1, but I do not believe for one minute the Camaro all motor 427 will.

If you do the math based on the DOHC mini 6 cylinder hp/ci, the interpolation for the LT1 would be 556 HP.

Jim Hall
I can easily believe that GM knows more than you about math, how to produce horsepower and whether/which Vette will be the hp king or not. They also know a whole lot more than you about what matters to them in the scheme of things and what the future will be bringing.
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:07 PM   #10
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The F22C has more power per cubic inch than any LS/LT motor at 1.77. 238hp/134.3ci. So what? Doesn't mean that engine is better. I've got a buddy at work with that car and he always totes how much power it makes from such a small displacement. He never raced me when I had the C5, after getting my 2012 5.0, we ran from a 40 roll and left him by several car lengths. My car bone stock and he has headers, exhaust, intake, a manual transmission, lighter wheels etc.

Not to get off on a separate tangent but point I am intending to make is that so what if it has a better power/displacement if it is still a slower car and still makes far less power. 323hp is still much less than an LS2 lol. Just sayin.

-Alex
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:14 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daekwan06 View Post
I'm sticking with 475. As I said earlier it accomplishes everything GM needs it to:


1) 475hp makes the base C7 significantly faster than both the base C6 & GrandSport C6.

2) 475hp makes the C7Z51 "competitive" with the outgoing C6Z06.

3) 475hp leaves plenty of room for HP increases in future model years of the base C7.

4) 475hp leaves plenty of room for a 550-600hp C7Z06 427ci, should GM decide to bring LT1 upgrades to the LS7 engine.
Just speculation, which is what I am doing. I have only the current technology to base my assumptions on. If GM cannot match the 1.47 HP/cubic inch of a base car Camaro, what exactly will they do to reduce horsepower to around 1.25 hp/cubic inch ?

I'm not saying you are not correct, but I think you assumptions are.

The 427 platform is gone as far as the Corvette is concerned. Direct injection is here to stay, and the next motor will not be a 427.

We are in aftermarket intake sales, so if the intake is very restrictive, you might see a substantial loss of power, making our job real easy and profitable.

We should see pretty soon.
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:15 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckyThreadkiller View Post
That motor actually makes the V6 Camaro a fairly attractive package. I had an LT1 C4 with 10% less hp and it didn't get nearly the 30mpg they are claiming for the LFX in the Camaro.
Not only that. The Camaro starts at $24,000.

You want something brand new, thats sporty, looks great, gets 30mpg, has backseat & trunk and comes with decent all around performance. The Camaro is still about the best buy I can think of in that price range.

I like the Mustang too.. but the base V6 version is still too feminine for me.
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:16 PM   #13
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Power is about displacement and compression. Anyone can make a powerful engine. It's the one that can make it run efficiently that wins. Who cares about a 500 or 1000hp engine that run 6-10 miles a gallon. If u can get a 500hp engine with 30-40mpg, I'm golden
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:19 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halltech View Post
So you think that the 3.6 liter 6 cylinder motor will have more power/cubic inch than the LT1?

Explain please.

Forget the Camaro stuff for a moment. That is just a marketing thing, and you could be right about that. The weight/power will go to the Corvette for sure.

The only advantage the 3.6 L 219.7 cubic inch Camaro motor has over the LT1 is overhead cams. Chevy has already proven that they can squeeze as much hp out of the pushrod motors as ohc.
I am by no means an expert on the subject, but I don't believe it would be unheard of if the Camaro wins this power/cubic inch comparison. How about 8.3 liters or 7 liters for "just" 500 hp? Not knocking it but the power delivery will be worlds apart, even if the V6 is superior in that respect of power output per cubic inch displacement.

The DOHC plays a huge role in the V6 being able to achieve its power.....I was already impressed with 305 out of the motor years ago. I would REALLY like to see a return to DOHC in the Vette, I feel the displacement allows plenty of down low fun while the extra valves allow lots of breathing up top to keep pulling.

I would not rule the 427 out. R&D has come a long way since the LS7 was produced. There is simply too much marketing goodness and gimmicks to pass up by never bringing it back. Remember when Dave Hill said using 7 liters was never intended as a marketing ploy? Who really bought that line?

Last edited by 1985 Corvette; 05-08-2013 at 12:22 PM.
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:26 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halltech View Post
Just speculation, which is what I am doing. I have only the current technology to base my assumptions on. If GM cannot match the 1.47 HP/cubic inch of a base car Camaro, what exactly will they do to reduce horsepower to around 1.25 hp/cubic inch ?

I'm not saying you are not correct, but I think you assumptions are.

The 427 platform is gone as far as the Corvette is concerned. Direct injection is here to stay, and the next motor will not be a 427.

We are in aftermarket intake sales, so if the intake is very restrictive, you might see a substantial loss of power, making our job real easy and profitable.

We should see pretty soon.
Trust I'm hoping you are right.. and I am wrong.

The C7 is already an absolute buy for me. 490hp just makes that more absolute-er
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:30 PM   #16
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You can easily increase hp without forced induction by changing the crankshaft, pistons, for higher compression, intake, exhaust for increased and better airflow. If u really wanted too, I'm sure u can push 500-550 easily on the stock engine. But how long will that last before it blows up? Running it softer is better for the engine and thus the manufacturer can provide u with 100k, 5 yr power train warranty.
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:30 PM   #17
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The only problem I see with the math is that is assuming a linear increase in power/cu. in. In the equation, there should probably be adjustments made for increased mass of rotating assembly and bigger, heavier parts, pistons valves, crank etc. I'm no math major, nor engineer, but I would guess that for every increase in displacement, there is a subsequent increase in mass for the parts involved, which would lower the HP/Cu. in. ratio?
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:34 PM   #18
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The only problem I see with the math is that is assuming a linear increase in power/cu. in. In the equation, there should probably be adjustments made for increased mass of rotating assembly and bigger, heavier parts, pistons valves, crank etc. I'm no math major, nor engineer, but I would guess that for every increase in displacement, there is a subsequent increase in mass for the parts involved, which would lower the HP/Cu. in. ratio?
Not necessary true. U can use forged internals or other material and lighter parts to reduce weights.

I'm an engineer myself and have experience building engines and transmissions
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:34 PM   #19
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me thinks the horsepower may be a lower advertised number than everyone wants ot see, based upon the fed govt wanting it that way. wouldnt be the first time it happened.
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:36 PM   #20
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Comparing a 300hp V6 Camaro to a near 500hp V8 Corvette engine is pretty interesting.

-Alex
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