in honor and anticipation of the new model,
05-07-2013, 07:12 PM
#1
in honor and anticipation of the new model,
What are your favorite (and least favorite) features of various vette models to date? nostalgia, hope and fear as the c7 approaches first deliveries:
I've owned c3's, 4's, 5's and 6z's, and so far here is my list:
1. Best engine – LS7; I could say LS9 but it has drawbacks. Time will tell on LT1 but it looks promising.
2. Best remaining drivetrain – c6 GS
3. Best brakes – none are really any good, but the c5z06 wins hands down for factory brakes so far. C7 will probably be the best unless the abs sucks. I rule out the carbon on price and their fragile existence...
4. Best handling – c5z06 and 84-87 c4 are tied for first, both handling extremely well; I’m pretty sure the c7 will not be allowed to handle this well by HAL, but we’ll see.
5. Best seats – 85-88 c4, we’ll see on c7, they look good.
6. Best dash- c3, we’ll see on the c7 - it looks high quality, but too busy for me. I have not seen one in person. I actually like most of the early c4 layout, but the green bars kill it for me.
7. Best looks – 1968-69; honorable mention c2 coupe, early c4, c6z, c7
8. Best frame – c6 z06 bar none, now probably c7
9. Best stereo – really none are all that great, but I have to go with the bose 84-89 so far. We’ll see on c7. It should probably win this one.
10. Fixed headlights – c6-7
11. Best overall size – c1-2, with the c4 getting honorable mention for having the lowest roofline.
Least favorite features
1. VSES/AH with the EBCM – ECM - BCM routine, and High Speed GMLAN Serial Data lines: these modules should be stand alone. The c6 sucks, and the c7 is probably worse here.
2. Probably the E diff in the c7, but time will tell
3. Frame noodles – c1-4 just flex too much though it is easy to fix
4. Vacuum lights and wipers – c3. really chevrolet?
5. Steel calipers – c3 (or any drums on c1 or 2; i never understood why anyone ever used drums, discs existed in the 20's)
6. 6 piston 'pad ejection' calipers – c6z
7. Bean counter wiring, ignition, dash, and alternators – c4
8. Cease fire injection - 84 c4
9. Tuned port injection - c4
10. Overall looks – c5 is by far the worst
11. Overall size – c7, followed by 6. just too big for a 2 seat sports car.
12. Fuel starvation in corners – c4
13. Suspension tuning – the c6z is a big letdown from the c5z, so it gets the nod even though it actually handles better than most of the early cars; we’ll see on c7
14. TPWS – c4-7. I understand big brother mandates that but it still gets in the way on c6 and up.
15. Unnecessary obnoxious dings, lights, warnings, switches, modules, and all manner of things that don’t do what you tell them to, argue with you, and have an agenda all their own – the c6 is really bad; the c7 will probably be worse.
I've owned c3's, 4's, 5's and 6z's, and so far here is my list:
1. Best engine – LS7; I could say LS9 but it has drawbacks. Time will tell on LT1 but it looks promising.
2. Best remaining drivetrain – c6 GS
3. Best brakes – none are really any good, but the c5z06 wins hands down for factory brakes so far. C7 will probably be the best unless the abs sucks. I rule out the carbon on price and their fragile existence...
4. Best handling – c5z06 and 84-87 c4 are tied for first, both handling extremely well; I’m pretty sure the c7 will not be allowed to handle this well by HAL, but we’ll see.
5. Best seats – 85-88 c4, we’ll see on c7, they look good.
6. Best dash- c3, we’ll see on the c7 - it looks high quality, but too busy for me. I have not seen one in person. I actually like most of the early c4 layout, but the green bars kill it for me.
7. Best looks – 1968-69; honorable mention c2 coupe, early c4, c6z, c7
8. Best frame – c6 z06 bar none, now probably c7
9. Best stereo – really none are all that great, but I have to go with the bose 84-89 so far. We’ll see on c7. It should probably win this one.
10. Fixed headlights – c6-7
11. Best overall size – c1-2, with the c4 getting honorable mention for having the lowest roofline.
Least favorite features
1. VSES/AH with the EBCM – ECM - BCM routine, and High Speed GMLAN Serial Data lines: these modules should be stand alone. The c6 sucks, and the c7 is probably worse here.
2. Probably the E diff in the c7, but time will tell
3. Frame noodles – c1-4 just flex too much though it is easy to fix
4. Vacuum lights and wipers – c3. really chevrolet?
5. Steel calipers – c3 (or any drums on c1 or 2; i never understood why anyone ever used drums, discs existed in the 20's)
6. 6 piston 'pad ejection' calipers – c6z
7. Bean counter wiring, ignition, dash, and alternators – c4
8. Cease fire injection - 84 c4
9. Tuned port injection - c4
10. Overall looks – c5 is by far the worst
11. Overall size – c7, followed by 6. just too big for a 2 seat sports car.
12. Fuel starvation in corners – c4
13. Suspension tuning – the c6z is a big letdown from the c5z, so it gets the nod even though it actually handles better than most of the early cars; we’ll see on c7
14. TPWS – c4-7. I understand big brother mandates that but it still gets in the way on c6 and up.
15. Unnecessary obnoxious dings, lights, warnings, switches, modules, and all manner of things that don’t do what you tell them to, argue with you, and have an agenda all their own – the c6 is really bad; the c7 will probably be worse.
05-07-2013, 07:20 PM
#2
Moderator
Favorite
Stinger hood on the '67 big block:
Stinger hood on the '67 big block:
05-07-2013, 08:24 PM
#3
Burning Brakes
My C4 handled better on corners then my C5 and C6. 4+3 +Z51 and I was taking corners of the express way on ramps at 90 when the limit was 35.
C4 best at holding you in place with cloth seats and the big side bolsters they had. C7, will have to wait and see.
C6 HP is the fastest so far and can't wait to see what the final numbers will be on the C7.
C5 big disappointment in many areas. Seats were a joke. A few times I almost ended up in the passenger side seat turning a corner.
C4 best at holding you in place with cloth seats and the big side bolsters they had. C7, will have to wait and see.
C6 HP is the fastest so far and can't wait to see what the final numbers will be on the C7.
C5 big disappointment in many areas. Seats were a joke. A few times I almost ended up in the passenger side seat turning a corner.
05-07-2013, 08:49 PM
#4
I really liked the way the clamshell hood on my C4 put the front suspension right out in the open with the hood raised. The car really looked like an open wheel race car when hood up.
05-07-2013, 09:00 PM
#5
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Sep 2007
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Oh My - neither I nor the Corvette Collector hobby can agree with that assessment. Perhaps the big block 68-69's are desirable due to engine, but imho there are many other years with collect-ability based on 'best looks' far exceeding the 68-69's. Just my opinion - in the end, I love em all
05-07-2013, 09:36 PM
#6
05-08-2013, 08:50 AM
#7
Burning Brakes
That was my favorite part of the C4. Opening the hood to see the TPI and the tires was bad ***. Looked like a race car for sure...
05-08-2013, 09:09 AM
#8
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Best of:
C4 Clamshell. Wish that had carried forward to C5.
C6 interior - don't care what the haters say. I don't need leather on EVERYthing.
C5 DIC - every modern Corvette should be able to scan its own codes without separate equipment.
C5 Z06 - best overall. C5 simplicity, ample power and grip, no rattling roof. Perfect track day car that you can still drive every day.
Late 50's convertibles - probably some of the best looking convertibles in automotive history.
C2 big block cars, particularly the '67 L88. Rediculous power, elegant looks, an icon.
1969 - all models. Over-the-top styling, last of a dying breed of big block power.
LSx engines. Probably the most adaptable engine family since the original small block.
Worst of:
All pop-up headlights. Added weight and complication with no benefits at all.
Anything driven by vacuum lines.
Electric door handles.
On-Star.
Any wheels larger than 18".
Glued-on rocker panels. Why glue on the one body panel most likely to get damage from road debris?
Composite floor pans. Minimal weight savings, more glue to scrape off if damaged.
Doug Nash 4+3.
Coupe top storage. With that big rear end on the C5, there's no reason they couldn't store it vertically at the back and maintain cargo space.
C4 Clamshell. Wish that had carried forward to C5.C6 interior - don't care what the haters say. I don't need leather on EVERYthing.
C5 DIC - every modern Corvette should be able to scan its own codes without separate equipment.
C5 Z06 - best overall. C5 simplicity, ample power and grip, no rattling roof. Perfect track day car that you can still drive every day.
Late 50's convertibles - probably some of the best looking convertibles in automotive history.
C2 big block cars, particularly the '67 L88. Rediculous power, elegant looks, an icon.
1969 - all models. Over-the-top styling, last of a dying breed of big block power.
LSx engines. Probably the most adaptable engine family since the original small block.
Worst of:
All pop-up headlights. Added weight and complication with no benefits at all.
Anything driven by vacuum lines.
Electric door handles.
On-Star.
Any wheels larger than 18".
Glued-on rocker panels. Why glue on the one body panel most likely to get damage from road debris?
Composite floor pans. Minimal weight savings, more glue to scrape off if damaged.
Doug Nash 4+3.
Coupe top storage. With that big rear end on the C5, there's no reason they couldn't store it vertically at the back and maintain cargo space.
05-08-2013, 12:02 PM
#9
I am somewhat surprised by this discussion. As a C4 owner myself I can attest to some of its significant "pros" but when reading the forums I often get the impression the majority of Corvette people think nothing good came out of Bowling Green from '84 to '96! I have also observed that there seems to be an "undesireable era" around the 15-20 year mark. So back in '95 when I purchased my first car ('85 Z51) that was the late '70s. Today it works out to the mid '90s so it is interesting/predictable that the late C4s and early C5s aren't getting a lot of love.
My C4 best list is:
*Clamshell hood -- An open view into a great looking engine bay is rare
*TPI -- Because the plenum and those long runners looked awesome but also because it is a surprisingly good first effort by GM on a digital multiport fuel injection system. Huge torque, easily tunable and generally reliable (save a few crummy Bosch sourced parts) it is a technological marvel.
*Handling -- Sticks to the road like glue and has practically no body roll whatsoever
*Seats -- Surprisingly comfortable and supportive, and they still look great
*Digital IP -- 30 years later they are finally getting back to a digital dash
It's not all good news on the C4 IP but one thing they got right is that slowly changing gauges like temperature are practically useless as a dial and are much better as a number instead. The fact that they are reconfigurable and convert units is also nice.
Other bests:
LT5 -- best looking engine ever put into a Corvette
LS7 -- Big, loud, powerful, the best of the big block in a small block
Pretty much any mid-year -- best of practically everything Corvette
Other worsts:
Crossfire injection
6 cylinder engines
Drum brakes
My C4 best list is:
*Clamshell hood -- An open view into a great looking engine bay is rare
*TPI -- Because the plenum and those long runners looked awesome but also because it is a surprisingly good first effort by GM on a digital multiport fuel injection system. Huge torque, easily tunable and generally reliable (save a few crummy Bosch sourced parts) it is a technological marvel.
*Handling -- Sticks to the road like glue and has practically no body roll whatsoever
*Seats -- Surprisingly comfortable and supportive, and they still look great
*Digital IP -- 30 years later they are finally getting back to a digital dash
It's not all good news on the C4 IP but one thing they got right is that slowly changing gauges like temperature are practically useless as a dial and are much better as a number instead. The fact that they are reconfigurable and convert units is also nice.Other bests:
LT5 -- best looking engine ever put into a Corvette
LS7 -- Big, loud, powerful, the best of the big block in a small block
Pretty much any mid-year -- best of practically everything Corvette
Other worsts:
Crossfire injection
6 cylinder engines
Drum brakes
Last edited by jsiddall; 05-08-2013 at 12:55 PM.
05-08-2013, 12:32 PM
#10
Burning Brakes
I am somewhat surprised by this discussion. As a C4 owner myself I can attest to some of its significant "pros" but when reading the forums I often get the impression the majority of Corvette people think nothing good came out of Bowling Green from '84 to '96! I have also observed that there seems to be an "undesireable era" around the 15-20 year mark. So back in '95 when I purchased my first car ('85 Z51) that was the late '70s. Today it works out to the mid '90s so it is interesting/predictable that the late C4s and early C5s aren't getting a lot of love.
My C4 best list is:
*Clamshell hood -- An open view into a great looking engine bay is rare
*TPI -- Because the plenum and those long runners looked awesome but also because it is a surprisingly good first effort by GM on a digital multiport fuel injection system. Huge torque, easily tunable and generally reliable (save a few crummy Bosch sourced parts) it is a technological marvel.
*Handling -- Sticks to the road like glue and has practically no body roll whatsoever
*Seats -- Surprisingly comfortable and supportive, and they still look great
*IP -- 30 years later they are finally getting back to a digital dash It's not all good news on the C4 IP but one thing they got right is that slowly changing gauges like temperature are practically useless as a dial and are much better as a number instead. The fact that they are reconfigurable and convert units is also nice.
Other bests:
LT5 -- best looking engine ever put into a Corvette
LS7 -- Big, loud, powerful, the best of the big block in a small block
Pretty much any mid-year -- best of practically everything Corvette
Other worsts:
Crossfire injection
6 cylinder engines
Drum brakes
My C4 best list is:
*Clamshell hood -- An open view into a great looking engine bay is rare
*TPI -- Because the plenum and those long runners looked awesome but also because it is a surprisingly good first effort by GM on a digital multiport fuel injection system. Huge torque, easily tunable and generally reliable (save a few crummy Bosch sourced parts) it is a technological marvel.
*Handling -- Sticks to the road like glue and has practically no body roll whatsoever
*Seats -- Surprisingly comfortable and supportive, and they still look great
*IP -- 30 years later they are finally getting back to a digital dash
It's not all good news on the C4 IP but one thing they got right is that slowly changing gauges like temperature are practically useless as a dial and are much better as a number instead. The fact that they are reconfigurable and convert units is also nice.Other bests:
LT5 -- best looking engine ever put into a Corvette
LS7 -- Big, loud, powerful, the best of the big block in a small block
Pretty much any mid-year -- best of practically everything Corvette
Other worsts:
Crossfire injection
6 cylinder engines
Drum brakes
1985 and up (1984 no love for cross-fire injection) was a great car. Loved the digital gauges and only recently now are coming in vague. It was ahead of it's time IMO anyway.The C4 seats with the huge side bolsters were awesome. C5's seats were a joke big time.
C7 seats should be way better for holding you snug but we'll see when we get a chance to sit in the car instead of looking at pics....
05-08-2013, 12:33 PM
#11
You guys are my kind of vette lovers! Agree electric door handles, glue on rockers and 19+" wheels! Should have put on my worst list
Also love the clamshell hood, should have listed that too. Sort of took it for granted.
Also love the clamshell hood, should have listed that too. Sort of took it for granted.
05-10-2013, 03:52 PM
#12
The C1 Corvette began the fiberglass body on a frame and the front-mid-engine layout. Then Duntov was hired to improve the performance of the C1.
C1
102" wheelbase
57.0" / 59.0" track width
51.3" height
C2
98" wheelbase
56.3" / 57.0" track width
49.8" height
C3
98" wheelbase
58.7" / 59.4" track width
48.0" height
C4
96.2" wheelbase
57.7" / 59.0" track width
46.3" height
C5
104.5" wheelbase
62.1" / 62.2" track width
47.7" height
C6
105.7" wheelbase
62.1" / 60.7" track width
49.1" height
C7
106.7" wheelbase
61.7" / 62.9" track width
48.8" height
.
C1
102" wheelbase
57.0" / 59.0" track width
51.3" height
C2
98" wheelbase
56.3" / 57.0" track width
49.8" height
C3
98" wheelbase
58.7" / 59.4" track width
48.0" height
C4
96.2" wheelbase
57.7" / 59.0" track width
46.3" height
C5
104.5" wheelbase
62.1" / 62.2" track width
47.7" height
C6
105.7" wheelbase
62.1" / 60.7" track width
49.1" height
C7
106.7" wheelbase
61.7" / 62.9" track width
48.8" height
.
05-11-2013, 03:12 PM
#13
Melting Slicks
So many diverse opinions. That is one of the great things about the Corvette community.
Last edited by B747VET; 05-11-2013 at 03:26 PM.