Telepierre

Different ways of looking at this:

Rationally, at MSRP the C7 beats comparable cars (in the luxury sport) in both subjective and objective criterias. However C7 is not the only game in town..

So what is the delta to obtain a feasible substitution? ...

In my case it comes to several thousands of dollars... so comes time to chat with the dealer today I may have a threshold of let's say 2K over MSRP. In a year (most likely) less than MSRP...and so on ..

Also, at this rate in 10/15 years a car like a Corvette C7 will set you back the equivalent of 85/100K... so there are times where waiting actually works against you; not for you..

jimmyb

Perfectly stated!

Back when the C6 was intro'd and these same conversations took place about "adjusted market value", I posed the very same question...what part of supply and demand did folks sleep through?

I paid MSRP for my 2005 C6 convertible (and felt lucky to get that price), 3 years later, I paid invoice for my 2008 C6 convertible.

Jimmy

Bill17601

If you really think MSRP is to much how much under the current value of your Corvette are you willing to sell it for?

tuxnharley

I disagree. This is not about "supply and demand" or "free market economics" or a "moral compass" . That would only be true if ALL suppliers in the market were charging the same price, i.e. excess fees over MSRP. That is not the case here.

This is about some greedy dealers (anybody remember Maxi Price and the ZO6 debacle?) charging over market prices to uninformed or uncaring folks who have money "to burn". With a little research they could buy at MSRP, but evidently do not care to do so.

That may not be "stupid", but it is certainly uninformed and ignorant of the other suppliers willing to sell at MSRP.

How in the world is it possibly a violation of some "moral compass" to shop around for the best price? Isn't that process an integral part of a free market economy?

It IS other peoples business because it perpetuates this kind of practice by the greedy dealers. That affects more than just those spending more than they have to on a C7; it spills over into other vehicle sales as well.

tuxnharley

Depends on how badly I might need to sell it, and how quickly I need the cash flow - just like the dealers now sitting on C6s! In my case, I'm not willing to sell my C6 even at current high book! The dealers, on the other hand, need to move those puppies soon.

harlold

I simply don't see why dealers deserve the extra ADM on top of the MSRP. "Supply/Demand" is a specious argument. GM should set the price that meets demand.

I don't believe dealers deserve the extra cheddar simply for being middlemen.

I think doing so is short sighted by dealers. I wouldn't do business with one. It is looking at the sale as "transactional" and not considering the long term relationship with the consumer.

Thank god for the Internet, we all aren't subject to local dealer BS.

Sin City

The market is always correct, always.

Sin City

I very much agree!

The beauty of the internet as it has made all markets "local". Now, you can buy something across the country even more easily than next door.

When the market area expands, competition increases and costs go down.

Too bad we can't teach that to the government. (Ooops, sorry!)

Bill17601

By law it is " suggested " price. The manufacture can not dictate pricing, it is not legal. They can suggest. The dealer can charge whatever the market will allow. You can pay or not it is called free enterprise. I love America..and free enterprise..and the ability to make money. The stock market is paying for my C7.. Because the value is what people will pay for what they want.

Guibo

It wouldn't be practical for all suppliers to charge the same excess fees over MSRP. You'd likely see a self-correction in the market that would hurt GM's bottom line (fewer cars sold, some customers looking to competing marques, etc). If uncaring folks with money to burn want the latest and greatest, and there are people willing to satisfy their hunger, then there's really no problem there.
I don't think anyone is saying it's a violation of a "moral compass" to shop around. Just that you can't claim to live in a free market society and then ask for artificial price caps. The compass is free to swing thusly: Those who want short-term profits can sell at whatever ADM they feel the market will bear. They do so at the risk of losing long-term profits (loyal customers), but that is the mistake they have freely chosen. A customer can "pay to play" or he can shop around. No problem there either.

KentCNC

I live in San Antonio which is where the dealer is that the OP posted. I was interested in the 1985 Vette when that model year came out and the Dealrer the OP cited was asking several thousand over MSRP. Later that year I was temporarily relocated to Detroit on a project for General Motors. I spent a lot of time at Milford Proving Grounds and seeing all those new Vettes made me really want one. I bought one near then end of the MY for invoice in Detroit and drove it back to San Antonio. I highly doubt the dealer in San Antonio will ever sell me a car.

harlold

One of the tennets of the free market is access to information about the product you are buying.

I'd argue 2 decades ago, ADM on vehicles violated the free market, because people simply didn't have the ability to check the inventory of 1000 dealers across the US instantly.

Now, I think it is more "free market" - because you can simply find out who is and isn't selling at <= MSRP thanks to the Internet.

I think now if you are selling with ADM, you are just bad at business and if you are buying with ADM, you are a fool. Perhaps selling at a high markup is why they aren't selling many and thus not getting a lot of allocations...

I still don't see what dealers bring to the table as being the middle men in the purchase of a vehicle like this to justify the ADM cost. They aren't providing vehicles to test. They don't have sample product. They simply add no value to the equation to justify over MSRP, other than being the only conduit to purchase the vehicle.

texvette2

I was looking at 2013 Range Rover Sport yesterday. Since the
2014 new styles are shown on the net as well as pricing.

I asked well what are the incentives going to be to move
out the older style 13's.

Response was we will have them all gone before the 14, they
are selling briskly. Well now they had 30 that could see on the
lot. Just said glad your going to sell all of them, means the
economy is improving.

Car dealers are nothing but BS.

TommyFox

I like your style.

Bill17601

I agree that there would be a market correction. If dealers are ahead of the market the cars would not sell. Thus the price would come down, there would be no loss of vehicles..no loss of bottom line ..just a temporary situation which would be corrected to meet demand. Market dictates the price not the dealers. The dealers just read the market and react. In my opinion.

Admrl94

1.) Regarding "uninformed or uncaring" buyers, a fool and his money are quickly parted. No sympathy from me.

2.) If what you believe is true, then somewhere there must be a parallel Corvette dealer forum where they have threads about "those greedy customers trying to steal my profit by offering to pay less than MSRP."

B747VET

Caveat emptor is an inherent conceptual component of supply and demand and free markets everywhere. Why do you think the toy industry used to send only New York lawyers to negotiate deals in Hong Kong?

You send the the toughest and the best in hopes of squeezing out every penny possible. All sellers are different and all buyers are different. That is part of the fun. It is also part of the tragedy. You don't have to like the rules, you just have to understand them.

Darius

It wont be as bad as when the C6 Z06 came out as the economy was better then. Every dealer around me was asking 20k over. I put my name on the list at Courtesy Chevy in San Jose and told them to call me when they would sell at msrp. They called me every couple months with a better offer, 15k, 12k, 10k over, no thanks! I waited a year and finally found one in Indiana for msrp and bought it. It's bad enough what you lose on a new car, that $ over msrp goes in the toilet as soon as you leave.

A friend of mine works at Chevy dealer, they sold a ZL1 Camaro when they came out for 85k otd.

jr3

Including the housing market a few years ago?

SCM_Crash

I'll pay MSRP if it means I'll get my car without a markup and without waiting a year.

I'm not so concerned with the deal I'm getting so much as the quality of the product I'm buying. I feel that the C7 is worth the money I spend on it, and therefore I don't think MSRP is too much.