Guibo

You don't have to sell me on those items. I too love the fact that the Corvette has it, but I wouldn't say I'm amazed. I (and others here) long ago wondered when GM would ditch Goodyear for Michelins (PS2s was a good first step), and as for efficiency, check my post dated 4.5 years ago:
Is that so out of touch with what is acheivable, and what GM wants for the Corvette? 3 out of 5 isn't so bad.

Guibo

Not saying I'm a sage, just that my views are not so terribly off-base as some like to think. And not everyone bitched long and loud about what needed to be changed; there were plenty of folks here saying C6 seats and interior were perfect. I'm hoping the C7 will be my first, but that's of no value to this discussion. If there are shortcomings, and you concede there are, then there's not much more to it. A question was asked to which cars offers those features. I replied accordingly. You seemed to doubt my sales figures for the R8. I replied accordingly. This is not trying to tell everyone what's wrong with their favored marque (although lack of some basic safety features in a convertible is hardly "right"). This is just trying to put some perspective into this debate with regard to pricing vs development costs. The two are not always in sync, and with premium marques, they often bear no relationship to each other (eg. price of a Reventon vs Murcielago or Aventador).

jimmyb

You're missing the most important element here. To "plenty of folks", the C6 interior IS "Perfect". It was not to me, and I stated that (many times) and many agreed and many disagreed. My opinion on MY car. NO car is perfect, every car is compromised in MANY WAYS, so buying a car that has what is important to YOU is ALL THAT MATTERS. I do get sick of the "GM Koolaid" comments (you didn't make them but many have) like all Corvette owners are mindless sheep who can't make a decision on their own. This is a CORVETTE forum, your perspective, as someone who's never owned one, will be taken with many grains of salt, as you have not lived with the car. As far as "basic safety features", the only one that is not right is lack of roll over protection, the rest of the stuff the OP mentioned is meaningless. And it's meaningless IN MY OPINION, only. If lack of all these safety features is a deal breaker to someone else, I understand totally. We all have our level of compromise. So, I wish the C7 convertible had rollover protection, but I will assure you that the ONLY reason I've even THOUGHT about the lack of it is because of threads like this. I had 2 C5 convertibles and 2 C6 convertibles and the lack of rollover protection NEVER entered my mind.

Jimmy

Guibo

Wait, first you said "Everyone who actually owns a Corvette has bitched long and loud about what needed to be changed" and now you're saying "plenty of folk felt the C6 interior was perfect." You can't have that both ways. Are these folks' views being supported by the Corvette development team? Based on the C7's interior, I'd say most certainly not.
This is not about cars being perfect. It's about answering questions that were asked, and I think I've done that. Whether my opinions should be taken with a grain of salt is irrelevant. In any event, people who have never owned GM products have had their opinions taken into consideration, by focus groups among perceived class competitors or by GM (actually Bob Lutz) having hired professional journalists for their independently minded, unbiased input into car development. You can keep talking about your position on rollover protection for a third time; it's not going to sink in any deeper than when I got it the first time.
If threads like these got you to think about convertible safety, then they've done their job (I guess).

jimmyb

Just like 427 C5....
So, you QUOTED my thread and then you still changed the content. I didn't say "everyone who actually owns a corvette has bitched long and loud about what needed to be changed" anywhere. What I wrote (you quoted my entire post, how did you get it wrong?) was: "To plenty of folks, the C6 interior is PERFECT". I then wrote: "It was not to me and I stated that (many times) and many agreed and many disagreed". I am not trying to have it both ways. I have very intimate knowledge of Corvettes, through personal experience of ownership, you have Corvette "book smarts". For instance, I wouldn't buy a C6 without F55, many folks never give F55 a second thought. It's a meaningful option to me, doesn't mean it is to everyone.

I am really trying hard to be gentle with you but at least have the good taste to quote me exactly without putting YOUR spin on my words.

And now, this thread can take credit for my "thinking about convertible safety"? Please, I think the C7 should have rollover protection, and that it doesn't will cause me not ONE second of concern.

In closing, my post (which you quoted) is the way it is with cars. All are compromised (why does a Bentley Continental GT weigh more than a SUBURBAN?), find the one with the set of compromises that bother you the least, and BUY it.

Jimmy

SCM_Crash

HAHA... I was just trying to even the playing field. But more ZL1s will sell than R8s and FAR more ZL1s will sell in comparison to the R8 GT which will hardly make it into the production car category. LOL

Either way, the R8 is supposed to be a super car and still gets spanked by a sub $50K car. And a Camaro no less. Not even the Z28 Camaro either. The heavier and slower on the track Camaro. LAWLS!

Oh, I know I said you were going back on the ignore list. But the truth is you never came off it. I just been unhiding your posts to see how ridiculous the next comment is.

SHUSH! Guibo responds to facts with more dumb comments.

...

DAMN! He posted.

Only two types of drivers need more safety equipment:

Dumb drivers and racecar drivers.

I was t-boned on the driver-side by an SUV in my 10 year old Z06. I walked away with just a scratch on my foot. These cars get great crash test ratings.

Everything else means you're either doing something stupid, or you didn't reinforce your car to be able to do something stupid safely. PERIOD!

You think that they put roll cages in track cars for looks? Even the OEM stuff isn't good enough to match a roll cage. Are you saying that the OEM should put a roll cage in because it's safer? That's a stupid assessment.

"This car costs 200K so we should put a roll cage in it. That will make things super comfortable for the driver."

If adding a retractable roll bar to the convertible is what sets the bar (no pun intended) for safety, you have a LOT to learn about safety equipment.

RC000E

That argument kind of went against you there...lol...I don't think 90% of the people that own Corvettes can handle what that car is capable of. I see a bunch of old boys driving Corvettes with their heads in the clouds and the wind in their hair.


In reality though, NCM insurance on vettes is cheap because plainly...they just don't get wrecked out as often. Not enough miles driven...not enough wrecks happenin....so point is...I agree with you.

To further support what you said...I was at Road America comin round the Carousel at obscene speeds in a Corvette race car I owned....ahead of me was a guy in a C5 Z06 (vintage race practice session) making his way through the deadly turn 11 (i.e. the kink). He hit the rumbles at a substantial speed...unloaded the right side and lost it quick...he ping ponged through the kettle bottoms wall to wall with parts strewn everywhere. He didn't have a scratch on him...and it was a HELL of crash. He hit the wall at every bit of 100mph+

I don't have pics of the back, but it was ragged too...

I was simply amazed at the LACK of damage though considering watching what took place. That car absorbed that impact like a champ...no intrusion...nothin. Had my GOPro not had a memory card issue I'd have it all on video.

SCM_Crash

Yeah. They're safe cars. I don't understand what the point of this thread is. If safety was lacking, this car would simply not sell.

More to the point of the "dumb driver" comment, you really have to be pushing the car in a very stupid way to need that kind of safety equipment. That was what I meant by that. I know people that push these cars to their limits. (Very few can.) And trust me, the stock safety equipment is very good.

There was a C6 Convertible that flipped in my area a few years back and killed 4 people... Guess what? Those four people were ALL in the car and they were driving the car VERY stupid in an area with tons of bumps and turns and even rail road tracks. That's a "Dumb Driver" instance.

jimmyb

Ron White said it best: "You can't fix stupid"


Jimmy

SCM_Crash

Oh god... I loath that quote thanks to C5 427. He managed to play it out like a Beatles song in no time flat.

ArcticC7

OK Then someone blows a red light and T bones you and flips you over. The stupid person you talk about then is me and everyone else that buys a poorly engineered Corvette convertible without roll over protection. This driver did nothing stupid behind the wheel what he did do stupid was buy a convertible from Chevrolet without roll over protection.

RC000E

^^Wow....you MUST be a liberal...with all your false spin and smokescreen statements

The picture you posted is an accident that occurred because the driver of the yellow vert Corvette, WHO WAS DRUNK, T boned another car and then flipped over.....AND he didn't even die.

If your plan is to drive your Corvette drunk, I suggest you just invest in an entire roll cage.

Guibo

I didn't change the quote. Here is what you said. ("..." means omission of parts that are not relevant to our current discussion):
Notice emphasis that YOU put on "IS." Now it is you who has changed it to "To plenty of folks, the C6 interior is PERFECT." Regardless, either two things are going on here:
1) "plenty of folks" who think the C6 interior IS "Perfect" does not include that group of people who own Corvettes or,
2) there is a contradiction in what you said (that EVERYONE, ie 100%, who actually owns a Corvette has bitched long and loud about what needed to be changed VS. "plenty of folks" within that group of EVERYONE feeling the C6 interior was perfect)

This is not about you personally opposing those people. I'm just telling you the sentiment that led to multiple threads sometimes spanning dozens of pages on these forums involving people who, despite your assertion about them owning Corvettes and complaining, never complained about the C6 interior and in many cases defended it against interiors that were obviously much nicer.

As to the question of why a Bentley weighs so much, there are plenty of good reasons why but I suppose your question was rhetorical.

"This thread?" I said "threads like these."

Guibo

Didn't die, but did suffer some injuries that might not have happened with better rollover protection. From Motorauthority:
"The woman behind the wheel, who remarkably survived the accident, received severe injuries to her face and upper body and severed one of her hands in the crash."

Perhaps she was lucky. The occupants of this one weren't (all died):

Guibo

You were trying to even the playing field, and yet a mag journalist with only 2 flying laps turns in a time several seconds faster than a GM engineer who for sure knows the car very well.
Gee, a $50k car selling far more than a $120k-220k car. Is that meant to be a boast, or your inability to comprehend that as prices increase, the pool of potential buyers exponentially decreases?
R8 is not meant to be a supercar. It was targeted at the 911 Carrera 4, which is not a supercar. Supercars aren't always faster than other cars factory modded for more speed. They don't have to be.
Audi's profit margins are hovering around 11-12%. About double of what GM is pulling in. That means they earn more compared to what they put in. Now who's "LAWLS"?
And what do you suppose happens on a real-world road? Remember that video of the driver in the R8 GT nearly keeping pace with Walter Rohrl in the GT2 RS, in snowy cold and damp conditions? Meanwhile, the C6 Grand Sport has trouble keeping pace with a 991 driven by journalists (who described it with the rarely used term, "dangerous"). Imagine how badly the Z28 on R-compound DOT rubber would fare. You see, Audi has built a car that acquits itself quite well on the track AND offers more confidence for the driver in everyday real-world conditions.
And just so you know, Auto Bild compared the R8 V10 against the Z06 with ceramic brakes and magnetic suspension. In this same-day test, the R8 was faster than the Z06 around Hockenheim with a 1:11.2 vs 1:11.5. (GT-R beat them both with a 1:09.9.) Really think the ZL1/Z28 is faster than the Z06 on carbon brakes and MRC? If so, then that makes the Z06 look like poor value, no?

In other words, you have no conviction nor self-control. I get it.

Never said it sets the bar for absolute safety. I'm saying it's safer than nothing and should be considered as a minimum measure. You have a LOT to learn about understanding other people's posts.

SCM_Crash

I agree with this but what's with the "liberal" comment. I won't even get into how "conservative" news twists facts until they break.

I do make comments about the Tea Party, but it's hard not to.

SCM_Crash

Right!

Guibo

In other words, you have no logical counterpoint against my statements. Just as I thought.

SCM_Crash

GO GUIBO! Use those typing skills! Before you know it, you'll stop drooling and walk upright!


Sorry, I know I'm acting like a jerk. I just can't stand your posts anymore. They don't make sense and you compare the dumbest things to a car you know nothing about.

jimmyb

Jeez, WRONG again. Do me a favor, while on your path to car forum nirvana, let me help you with one thing. Once you quote someone's post, that is the way it will appear in YOUR post that you added the quote to. I can go back and edit my original post 200 times but that will not change the quote in the body of your post. GOT IT????
What I wrote is right there, I did NOT edit it and change Everyone to Plenty of people in response to you, for goodness sakes, you quoted the post in it's original state and you did change what I wrote. You are flat WRONG on this and, again, do not change my words to make your point (whatever that is). At this point, I have no idea what your point is other than to be contrary. Sadly, you certainly don't have enough real knowledge on the subject of Corvettes, all you can do is parrot what car magazines say.

I will not respond further as you are making my head ache.

But you should feel free to quote this post, screw it around anyway you want to, and you can have the last word.

Jimmy

PS. The Bentley comment was to illustrate the compromises that EVERY car has. The Bentley is compromised by being GROSSLY overweight which, in turn, compromises fuel economy, spirited driving, tire life, etc...