Would you still buy a ZR1 if he can only with DCT tranny?
03-25-2013, 10:53 PM
#61
Burning Brakes
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03-26-2013, 12:25 AM
#62
Burning Brakes
That having been said, I'm actually torn on the issue of what's more fun on the street. Each has its merits. And each transmission type has its strengths / target market. I would love a big torquey sedan with a well-programmed slushbox as a daily (think E63 or 300SRT8), a pure sports car as the fun-on-the-street car (think Carrera GT, Z07, etc.), and a race car with a DCT for the track (think SLS black series, upcoming GT3RS, etc).
03-26-2013, 12:29 AM
#63
I think the Corvette should have came with a DCT. If for anything it would have been a very good marketing tool.
I'm sure the Z variants will offer a DCT type transmission in the future. Even if GM doesn't have one ready, I'm sure they can outsource one.
I'm sure the Z variants will offer a DCT type transmission in the future. Even if GM doesn't have one ready, I'm sure they can outsource one.
03-26-2013, 03:41 AM
#64
Le Mans Master
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From what I understand, the ZR1 isn't the best track car because of heat soak and so most real racers buy Z06s anyway. If the ZR1 was N/A and still make 600+ HP, then it's more likely that a DCT-only version would sell really well since true racers would probably buy it.
However, the Z06 is a better track car because it doesn't go limp after a few laps on the track. At the end of the day, DCT is better in a track car. The ZR1 should be a 6-speed because it will be driven for fun on the streets and rarely driven (in a serious race manner) on the track.
However, the Z06 is a better track car because it doesn't go limp after a few laps on the track. At the end of the day, DCT is better in a track car. The ZR1 should be a 6-speed because it will be driven for fun on the streets and rarely driven (in a serious race manner) on the track.
03-26-2013, 04:01 AM
#65
Safety Car
You know I have always wanted to meet you anyway. Unfortunately, business does not take me to your fine state anymore. Regardless of how good they are, unless health issues change (possible at my age!) I don't see ever wanting even a really good DCT over a true manual. But I'll accept that you have a lot of credibility with me - we have a lot of years on this forum together so I will accept your comments as something I should be more open minded to.
I bought in because we are downsized and have sold all our cars except for two while we travel around and try and decide where to retire. Since I need to store the car in an indoor heated storage and some of them wont take a stick I decided it was time to man up and try a DCT. Something I've been wanting to do but I'm not sure I would have if it hadn't become a need. I was pleasantly surprised to find I didn't come to hate it, in fact I like them. I have no guess whether you would but I do believe you might walk away with a willingness to give them a little more cred if nothing else.
Shame you don't wander this way anymore, I'm not sure I get that 20 but it would have been fun.
03-26-2013, 05:22 AM
#66
03-26-2013, 05:49 AM
#67
Burning Brakes
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Yes. You DO have to salute.
It's the Corvette owner salute they show you when you buy your first new Corvette. It's part of the delivery procedure after the dealer does the PDI.
It's kinda like the "Jeep Wave", but different.
When you do buy a Corvette, you'll know what we are talking about.
It's the Corvette owner salute they show you when you buy your first new Corvette. It's part of the delivery procedure after the dealer does the PDI.
It's kinda like the "Jeep Wave", but different.
When you do buy a Corvette, you'll know what we are talking about.
03-26-2013, 07:55 AM
#68
Melting Slicks
If I bought a ZR1 I'd use it on the track and would want every performance advantage.
For a weekend toy to enjoy cruising the open roads, the manual is a lot of fun to drive.
For a weekend toy to enjoy cruising the open roads, the manual is a lot of fun to drive.
03-26-2013, 08:12 AM
#69
Team Owner
One thing I totally disagree with is that the DCT is a manual transmission. It's not. A manual transmission is a transmission that has to be shifted manually. How can anything be more simple than that? In respect to calling one a manual or an automatic it doesn't matter how the transmission works, it's whether or not it shifts automatically or manually.
A torque converter "slushbox" can be shifted manually, and I own two of them that have paddle shifters to prove it. So how is it any less of a manual than a DCT?
I'm not trying to debate which does it better or is more efficient btw. I just have a personal hangup with calling a DCT a manual. BTW, I wrote a letter to Car & Driver last year that they actually published pointing out the same thing. I don't want to take all the credit, but they actually changed the way they describe a DCT, no longer simply calling it a manual anymore.
03-26-2013, 08:30 AM
#70
Instructor
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Ultimately it would be great to have a choice. All three trannys still have a place in todays world as others have very well expressed. Modern true autos with either torque converter or wet clutch applications are still the smoothest for daily driving but give up substantial performance ability if pressed into service for HPDE's. Think about why MB has stayed this course for all but the SLS, it simply suits their target audience better.
However for the upcoming C7 Z versions a choice of DCT or rev match manual would open the doors of ownership to a much larger group of potential buyers. GM may already be hoping to steal some of the P car purists who won't by the 991 GT3 for lack of a third pedal. Having an automated manual, DCT or not, appeals to those chasing absolute lap time performance but more importantly to many Corvette enthusiasts who can afford a Z version but either can't or don't want to deal with traditional manual shifting.
If the cost of development is too high then I would suggest out-sourcing as many manufacturers already do. There are still plenty of models to use the standard planetary gearboxes that GM is structured to build but go out and find something special for the ultimate Vette. I am sure MB could build more of the rear transaxle SLS DCTs if it was worth their while
However for the upcoming C7 Z versions a choice of DCT or rev match manual would open the doors of ownership to a much larger group of potential buyers. GM may already be hoping to steal some of the P car purists who won't by the 991 GT3 for lack of a third pedal. Having an automated manual, DCT or not, appeals to those chasing absolute lap time performance but more importantly to many Corvette enthusiasts who can afford a Z version but either can't or don't want to deal with traditional manual shifting.
If the cost of development is too high then I would suggest out-sourcing as many manufacturers already do. There are still plenty of models to use the standard planetary gearboxes that GM is structured to build but go out and find something special for the ultimate Vette. I am sure MB could build more of the rear transaxle SLS DCTs if it was worth their while
03-26-2013, 10:03 AM
#71
Team Owner
Ultimately it would be great to have a choice. All three trannys still have a place in todays world as others have very well expressed. Modern true autos with either torque converter or wet clutch applications are still the smoothest for daily driving but give up substantial performance ability if pressed into service for HPDE's. Think about why MB has stayed this course for all but the SLS, it simply suits their target audience better.
However for the upcoming C7 Z versions a choice of DCT or rev match manual would open the doors of ownership to a much larger group of potential buyers. GM may already be hoping to steal some of the P car purists who won't by the 991 GT3 for lack of a third pedal. Having an automated manual, DCT or not, appeals to those chasing absolute lap time performance but more importantly to many Corvette enthusiasts who can afford a Z version but either can't or don't want to deal with traditional manual shifting.
If the cost of development is too high then I would suggest out-sourcing as many manufacturers already do. There are still plenty of models to use the standard planetary gearboxes that GM is structured to build but go out and find something special for the ultimate Vette. I am sure MB could build more of the rear transaxle SLS DCTs if it was worth their while
However for the upcoming C7 Z versions a choice of DCT or rev match manual would open the doors of ownership to a much larger group of potential buyers. GM may already be hoping to steal some of the P car purists who won't by the 991 GT3 for lack of a third pedal. Having an automated manual, DCT or not, appeals to those chasing absolute lap time performance but more importantly to many Corvette enthusiasts who can afford a Z version but either can't or don't want to deal with traditional manual shifting.
If the cost of development is too high then I would suggest out-sourcing as many manufacturers already do. There are still plenty of models to use the standard planetary gearboxes that GM is structured to build but go out and find something special for the ultimate Vette. I am sure MB could build more of the rear transaxle SLS DCTs if it was worth their while
03-26-2013, 11:14 AM
#75
Le Mans Master
I think I have an idea what you may be thinking.
DCT's ARE manuals with a "clutch", so they don't build boost on the line like a torque converter will.
If that's the reason you have to want a DCT, then you're gonna have to find other ones.
The good news is......there are a BUNCH of other reasons to love DCT's.
DCT's ARE manuals with a "clutch", so they don't build boost on the line like a torque converter will.
If that's the reason you have to want a DCT, then you're gonna have to find other ones.
The good news is......there are a BUNCH of other reasons to love DCT's.
03-26-2013, 11:37 AM
#76
Melting Slicks
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Nope, not unless it was for the wife. Automatics just don't appeal to me. It's like people who love music, there are some who listen and play it with there rock band simulators and you got the others that play it for real. Yes they can make mistakes but when you get it right it gives you so much more.
03-26-2013, 11:57 AM
#78
Le Mans Master
03-26-2013, 01:15 PM
#79
Huh? Not sure why that has anything to do with my statement or him wishing he had thought of it.
One thing I totally disagree with is that the DCT is a manual transmission. It's not. A manual transmission is a transmission that has to be shifted manually. How can anything be more simple than that? In respect to calling one a manual or an automatic it doesn't matter how the transmission works, it's whether or not it shifts automatically or manually.
A torque converter "slushbox" can be shifted manually, and I own two of them that have paddle shifters to prove it. So how is it any less of a manual than a DCT?
One thing I totally disagree with is that the DCT is a manual transmission. It's not. A manual transmission is a transmission that has to be shifted manually. How can anything be more simple than that? In respect to calling one a manual or an automatic it doesn't matter how the transmission works, it's whether or not it shifts automatically or manually.
A torque converter "slushbox" can be shifted manually, and I own two of them that have paddle shifters to prove it. So how is it any less of a manual than a DCT?
Torque converter slushboxes don't have the instant response that a DCT can have. Can you bang-bang down two gears instantly if you need it with a slushbox when shifted manually? Can you grab neutral whenever you want? With the better DCTs, you can.
03-26-2013, 01:23 PM
#80
Le Mans Master
A common complaint with GTR's is down shifting...it's the GTR's achilles heel(as it's not immediate). Also in a roll it's common knowledge if you catch him sleeping or if you are just out looking for a fight roll up on him then punch it, he's not catching a C6Z but if you give him 3 honks and time to downshift all bet's are off....On Mexico HWY 2-85 of course. A P-Car on the other hand will downshift when you tell it to.