Freak3150

If you honestly don't know of any other car companies that don't release all the info with the unveiling then you're not paying any attention. Do you not remember the announcement Ford made on the ZL1 release date? The Shelby had already been introduced but they hadn't released the final numbers until that day. They aren't the only ones, but thats the most obvious.

And they don't release numbers and say they may change because people glom onto them like they are gospel. This forum already had a thread about the hp/tq numbers in which the OP completely glossed over the word estimated in the information that was sent to him. I saw a thread in the Shelby forums where someone was all happy the 2014 GT500 was finally officially 662 HP, instead of 650 that the 13 was rated at. Despite the fact that Ford had announced it as being certified at 662 before it had even gone on sale.

R&L's C6

Cool...

OnPoint

They haven't even told us what the darned thing will do at Talladega for crying out loud . . . .

MikeyTX

Kudos.

talon90

Damn you for quoting him. With him on my ignore list I don't have to endure his endless droning on unless someone quotes it.

$138.00 and any ONE of the following will get you that certificate of membership.


MEMBER
An applicant who meets any of the following criteria shall quality as an SME member:

An individual who has an SME Certification.
Is a registered professional engineer (PE).
A graduate with a bachelor's or associate's degree in science or engineering from an accredited school.
A person with a minimum of four years experience in activities contributing to the realization of manufactured products or to the support of such enterprises in industry, government or education.
A professional in a manufacturing enterprise or one serving manufacturing.
Education from an accredited technical, science or engineering school is acceptable in lieu of experience on a year-for-year basis.

b4i4getit

This is true. I am actually surprised we know as much about this car as we do. However GM faces a very competitive marketplace. They have to keep interest high on this car. For that reason alone they are still massaging the final product. Not the looks of course but the final specifications. While I don't agree with the lack of information I certainly can understand why they are doing it.

BlueOx

I'll remember that about not quoting him....

MikeyTX

slief

Your statement there answers the questions perfectly. "Pretty Well Nailed Down" doesn't mean 100% nailed down. Sure they know the rough weight of body panels, engine, trans etc. Things like drive shafts, exhaust components and other parts could still change. So could weight of actual production parts like body panels. As such, so can the overall weight of the C7.

Keep in mind that all these cars are hand made. They are essentially engineering prototypes. The body parts are sample parts likely from the first molds. Even the molds can be modified in short order if needed. As for HP and Torque, as it has been mentioned, they are still testing and refining. Once they feel comfortable with the tuning in all weather conditions and insure that all EPA requirements are met, then and only then will they know actual HP and Torque numbers. Until that time, things can and likely will change which is why everything they speak of when it comes to meaningful specs is estimated. This isn't a case of "Tom Foolery". It's a case of the car still being refined before production.


When and ONLY when they have everything nailed down and EPA guidelines met as well as SAE testing done, then and only then will they be in any position to release actual specifications and not estimates.

Why people make a big deal out of this stuff is really mind boggling. This isn't rocket science and certainly doesn't take a genius to figure out the fact that they are still testing and months away from when actual production. It's called testing for a reason. With testing comes refinement and with refinement comes changes whether they are small are large, there will be changes. That doen't mean the body is going to change but that does mean specs like power and weight are still dynamic until testing is complete.

Bare in mind that all the camo on the car we saw in the first spy shots impacts performance whether its cooling, weight or aero. The camo also has consequential impacts on overall fuel economy. They needed to let the cat out of the bag so they could get down to real world testing which is exactly what they are doing now with the non production cars we are seeing on the road. As such, the car needed to be unveiled not only to generate hype but also to do real world testing.

They also don't need to produce 30,000 parts in the first production parts run. Parts will be manufactured according to production demands and will be delivered accordingly. GM will not warehouse/floor a years worth of major parts let alone even a few months . I am resonably certain, GM as well as their suppliers follow Lean Manufacturing guidelines. If you don't know what that means, look it up.

It doesn't take much time to gear up for production. Days or weeks at most once the production line is setup. Also, most of GM's suppliers can turn out hundreds of parts a day. When GM is ready to turn the line on, the suppliers will only need limited time in advance to begin their production and parts will be delivered according to production demands and will not be sitting for weeks on the floor waiting to be used. Instead they will arrive within days before being used and subsequent parts deliveries will continue daily if not every week.

I seem to remember a manufacturing show (I think it was ultimate factories) on the Z06 that stated that things like the seats for example had to arrive on a specific day so that their arrival correlated with their installation in a specific car on the production line. The scheduling was nailed down very precisely so as not to have parts sitting around waiting to be used but instead to go directly into the car within hours if not a day of their arrival.

ATC399

Sorry I cant..if its going to be a Beast then tell us that...Not atleast 450/450...They have known for years exactly how must power the LT1 will produce...But I'm finish on this topic...I'll just have too wait like the rest of you mortals

JoesC5

Why didn't you quote what it takes to be elected a senior member?

How much does a membership cost for the many engineering societies you are a member of? Or are they free because that's the only way they can get any members like you to join?

How much did it cost you to become a member of the Unofficial, Unpaid, Unregistered Bowling Green Tour Guide Society, who is not employed by GM, but hangs around the NCM, acting the big shot? How much did it cost you to join the NCM?

Another one of the CF members is also a mfg engineer. He retired from GM(Corvette) and then went to work for Chrysler as the Viper assembly plant manager. He must also must be another loser like me. Why don't you go over to the plant Monday, march right in, and tell the mfg engineers that are working their *** off trying to get the equipment/tooling installed/debugged for the C7, that they are bunch of losers as you are trying to portray me because I belonged to the SME.

Oh, and the company I retired from as Manager of Mfg Engineering had fiscal 2012 sales of $3,166.9 million. How large is your employer?

elegant

Sure, it would be nice to know more details today's, but I prefer GM still fine tuning the C7's engineering, changing a part of one system here, refining another part or another component there. if this results in a car that handles .01% better, or is 2 pounds lighter, or develops 4 more HP later, yet getting the magical goal of 30 MPG highway --or whatever enhancements occur between now and the "for sale" cars going down the production line, I am all in favor of waiting for such refinements.

For example, the day of the Detroit Auto Show Reveal GM learned that since the carbon fiber roof panel was so strong, that they needed to now re-engineer the rear roof hatch (one of the two "C6 carryover parts), thus now resulting in just one part being carried over to the C7.

We (prospective customers, magazine testers, etc) all need to suck it up and wait until the car is released for public testing and sale.

jschindler

Contrary to what the OP said, cars are shown all the time many months before they go on sale without the final specs being divulged. It's just that folks anticipating the latest Kia or Buick aren't salivating over the details like we are.

johnglenntwo

I originally thought everything that came out of you represented a strong bias toward your property, and it certainly seemed so. But, I've got to admit...

talon90

I need to be very clear here. I have nothing but respect for the profession of manufacturing engineering. It has put food on my table for the last 25 years. You see Joe, that's what I do for a living. I am also a former member of SME and I was president of my student chapter in college. When (and if) I can find my certificate in the attic, I'll post it. I needed to clear this up because I refuse to let your rebut to my post leave me looking like I meant to disparage the field or the organization. In my zeal simply silence you in my forum world I inadvertently disparaged my chosen field, my friends and my peers.

So you see, I have no problem there. Where my problem lies is with you. This post of yours is a prime example of the irrational over the top approach you take to forum posting. Where my problem arises is that you are unable to discuss or debate. You are unable to accept that you may be wrong, misinformed or just not have knowledge in a particular field. The diatribe that you posted on aerodynamics and your subsequent posts in several threads actually left some folks scratching their heads. You were behaving like a petulant child and quite frankly you were plain and simply wrong on the subject matter regarding the benefits of aerodynamic testing and it's benefits not only on performance driving but on every day driving.

Regarding my chosen career path, I currently am employed by a small company in Massachusetts we had 10.4 million in sales last year. I telecommute but return to the plant monthly. My title is Vice President of Engineering and Technical Sales. I am the chief technical officer of my company. I am responsible for all engineering, development and quality and I support the sales organization in an applications role. I just celebrated my 8th year with them and I was appointed V.P. in 2008. When I'm not traveling I also consult on customer quality and manufacturing. A benefit of telecommuting.

Prior to that I have been involved in aircraft and military hardware and automotive products and I worked with GM Powertrain as a contract engineer on transmission control products and sensing technology. I had parts that I developed on the C4, C5 and C6 Corvettes in the automatic transmissions and the airbag sensing and deployment systems.

I am a lifetime member of the National Corvette Museum and I am an Ambassador for the museum. My body of work on the Corvette, it's systems and manufacturing speaks for itself on this forum and is recognized by General Motors. I speak with engineers and program personnel just about weekly both socially and professionally.

You see Joe, you know nothing about me.

To get back on topic, the final configuration for the new Corvette is still in development because the team putting it together are working to ensure that they make the best car that they can. Specifications as far as final numbers are not released because they are not ready to be released. As of the reveal, the ,motor had not been SAE certified and final calibrations were still being worked on to get the best combination of reliability, power, economy and value possible.

JoesC5

Then why did you even bother to make the post acting as if being a member of the SME was for losers? If you know so much about the SME, then you should also know the requirements for becoming a senior member.

slief

Do you have to be over 60 to be a Senior SME member??

Just kidding. You could cut the tension in this thread with a knife!

talon90

I truly did not intend for that to be the case but you know as well as I do that having that certificate doesn't anymore qualify you as an expert on automotive manufacturing and development than does being a member of this forum. You posted the photo to silence your critics in this thread on your knowledge of the development cycle of a new vehicle launch. I know for a fact that you have zero experience in automotive and I know for a fact (because you told me) that you have never even been to the Corvette plant and only in an automobile manufacturing or assembly plant as a guest. You can work for Nabisco as an engineer making wheat thins and have that certificate (no disrespect intended to food service engineers.)

It is a good organization and it appears to have grown in both size and scope since I was a member. They have branched in to specialties and certifications but it has been a long time since I was a member. It doesn't define a career, it enhances it. I left the society when I took an off ramp in my career in to quality.

JoesC5

I have been in the Corvette plant 5 times, but not as a groupie like you, hanging around as a name dropper like you..

I have visited other automobile plants and I started my career as a manufacturing engineer with a company that was a supplier to the big 3, and the plant was a UAW plant.

Mighty impressed with you being a lifetime member of the NCM and being an Ambassador. Did you get awarded that honor, or did you buy it, as I did my SME senior membership. Oh and I'm not a member of the NCM, even though I have toured it a half dozen times. Does my knowing a lifetime member of the NCM and an Ambassador give me any cred's. If so, A good friend is a NCM lifetime member and is an Ambassador. Do I get any more gold stars because he also owns one of each generation of Corvettes, unlike your one.

Oh, an since I'm not a groupie, I can only say I've met one member of the Corvette Team, and that was in 1997. Dick Almond, Corvette brand manager. Darn it, now I'm a name dropper, and my 30 minute chat with Mr. Almond makes me in the "know" with the Corvette Team.

talon90

My point exactly. I wish you had some feel of how you look when you do this. You have no rebuttal, nothing to contribute on a subject matter so you resort to attacks in an effort to tear down the person you are addressing. Seriously, it really is unfortunate. I'll tell you what, I'll let my body of work speak for itself, you let your certificate and posts like these speak for you.

You must have been a real treat to work with/for. It's a shame too, you are clearly intelligent and could have something to offer to the discussion but your bravado and ire keep getting in the way.