Sinister87

With all the different threads about the likes and dislikes of the upcoming Corvette, I still see a question that hasn't really been addressed. What do you guys foresee (longterm) of how the new C7 will compete in today's aftermarket of performance vehicles?

We can all agree,(hopefully) that on paper the new vette will be a performer, 450HP(est),3300lbs(est), bigger and better brakes, aluminum body, etc...etc, the car should initially fair well for itself, along with the 55k base price, a true bargain in today's performance car world.

But...will this be enough in the longterm? I'm referring to the unbreakable E92 ECM! I haven't seen many on here concerned with the fact that this current car,( love or leave it) will not be easily tuned now or possibly for the future. I do realize that not everyone who buys their new vette is going to mod it but allot of folks do, just look to all the tuners on this website and it's not hard to see that aftermarket performance is thriving and well.


Below is a quote from me I posted in another thread,,,,,

(((((Though if this car comes out and can't quickly be tuned shortly after, I fear more people will look elsewhere for their kicks than what you think. If this car can't easily be modified, I think it will eventually hurt the sales after say the initial hype of having a new vette wears off.

To me, that's why the GEN3/4 engines have been so successful. It's a great starting point and the aftermarket has followed suite with anything and everything imaginable you can throw at it. Adaptability is the key, this engine has been in anything with 4 wheels including allot of fords as well as boats, sandrails, hotrods etc,,,, you name it!

So, if your current crop of cars across the tracks(Porsches,GTR's,Mustangs,AMG's,Aud i's and M cars) are still being modified, it won't take long before your stock 450HP gets old whether you like the twisties or straights. I think it will change the dynamics of owning a vette more than people think and because of it, more people starting to look elsewhere for their need for speed.)))))


So how about it? I'll raise the question again, will this be enough to deter future vette owners from switching manufacturers, do you think the new ECM will easily be broken and that folks shouldn't be concerned? Or, do you feel other manufactures will follow suite of the new vette's untuneable ECM and this is a "Dawn of a New Age" in the upcoming Automobile world. Think about it!

I for one, don't want to be roped in with stock performance of any vehicle (albeit the Bugatti Veyron) as I like to put my own individual stamp on all my rides, whether it be a CAI,headers and catback or a stroked out beast. I would like to have that option at the very least. Comments,opinions and views are welcome.

jkcam6017

Two possibilities;

1. Computer geeks will find a way to hack the system and tune the C7, if it cannot easily be done.

2. People will accept the continued performance enhancements available from the factory with new versions of the C7.

Assuming the worst that nothing can be modified, what other vehicle would you buy instead?

Sinister87

1)As I have mentioned in another thread, Dodge has a similar ECM(although an older version) in their newer models and several years later no real breakthroughs have trickled out in the aftermarket, not at least compared to the LS1's and other makes.

2) Look above for your answers, plus C6 vettes,Camaros and your current crop of V powered Caddies.

Frankie2blue

I think the day will be here very soon where you will not be able to tune and it may be with the C7. Or if you do try, it will be an immediate void of your warranty because it will leave signs that can not be reversed showing that it has been messed with. Car companies are tired of paying for the mistakes of Shade tree mechanics. Getting that way with everything. How many things do you own that has the sign on the back that reads, " There are no serviceable parts inside".

MikeyTX

This ................ !

plasboy

I don't know if the reason is GM tired of repairs on modded cars or GOVT. not wanting cars changed for emission reasons but it would be a shame if we can't mod a little. Callaway seems to be working on something so maybe it's not impossible. Would still buy the car as I haven't modded our C6 yet and the C5 only a little. Hope there is some tuneability, guess we'll soon know.

OJCrush08

Interesting comments about the ecm, and coincidentally, had this same conversation with Chris over at ECS. Took my Z06 up to ECS last week so they could install the WCCH modded Brodix LS7 heads, Torquer Cam and lots of other goodies and we were talking about tuning. He made a point of telling me that he knew a lot of guys who had bought the Chrysler hemi powered models and after two years of frustration, had sold them because they could not crack the tuning yet.

I think some folks may be underestimating the both the difficulties of cracking the latest generation ecms and the resultant difficulties of doing any real significant power mods as a consequence.

Of course, anything designed by man (or woman) can be broken given enough time and money, but the Chrysler experience should be seriously considered as a real world example of what may be an increasing problem with extensive mods to the newest vehicles being sold. Chris told me he could have an S/C kit for base C7 ready in literally weeks after obtaining a car, but expressed real doubts about cracking the ecm anytime soon. Sans ecm reprogramming, these mods are not feasible.

BWF07

I think you hit a least part of the nail on the head and that being the Fed's. As far as the Callaway group, they are not trying to figure out how to crack the ECM, they are working with the GM engineering staff to see what they can do to make their version run at peak power and still stay with in the required guidelines.

The C7 will survive for a normal generation run, and I think we will see GM simply improve the car each year, with better electronics, performance and handling.

jschindler

First of all, lets remember that the percent of people who modify their cars is very small. Those on the forum are not representative of the typical Corvette owner. Second, I don't really see what else they would buy. If you want a car you can modify you have to assume that the Camaro will go the same way, so it only leaves the Mustangs. I can't imagine any other car that would draw that crowd in.

The future of the Corvette is not going to be dictated by its controversial looks or whether or not it can be modded. Its future will be dictated by how well the economy comes back and how long it takes for folks to get past the emotional effects of what we all went through financially the past few years.

BlueOx

This.

Dominic Sorresso

I have no doubt that Lingenfelter, Callaway, et al are in the factory loop on modification. GM Powertrain Performance is there to make a profit and it has become a big business w specific focus by all the manufacturers.
There will be mods for the C7! Too big of an ecosystem that lives off of sales and installs for GM not to wink at it.

AORoads

I think this is the way things are going, mainly because tech is allowing it to happen. The outcome could be many and varied. As stated by others, there could be a time when GM or its authorized subsids, actually "sell" a modification ECM. Maybe. Or possibly all those who want to modify so badly begin building cars from scratch with carburetors or even fuel injection.

The reality is that with cars being essentially controlled in so many ways by computers, not just fuel sipping mpg, it gets increasingly difficult to change one thing and not affect something else, or a lot of something elses. While this doesn't sound like much on paper, we've read of slides and control issues from what we might call minor changes like rake, or ride height, or even different tires (axle to axle). Liability is a big issue, to car companies and insurance companies.

So, not much would surprise me in the effort to reduce costs, reduce liability and reduce warranty issues, not to mention potential mechanical costs. It will also not surprise me when the day comes that we can't control anything in the car besides starting and turning off "the car," if that's what it still is called. Tech can actually allow/permit/do that today.

Bill17601

The future of the C7?

In my garage...

DOUG @ ECS

As a tuner I personally hope this happens! Now your thinking "HUH?" Yes I hope this happens because what it will do is weed out all the "shade tree mechanics" and leave the professionals.

The is AMERICA, performance was born here and it will stay here, period!

If GM makes the car so it cannot be tuned without losing your warranty, we will still offer our mods and include our own power train warranty to the customer because we should stand behind our work no? We cant do it now because it is so easy for anyone to go in and make changes to our tunes, same as GM, we have seen multiple times in the past. If the software is too difficult to obtain, or much more complicated, then we will not have to worry about that anymore so we can offer that warranty without hesitation.


As long as there is a demand for more HP, shops like us will be filling that demand.

jschindler

Great post

Kappa

They already do that.

DON T.

100%.......Well said, the Pros will find a way to Mod these cars and keep them legal and fed friendly so to speak

CitationZ06@yahoo

I see two things...1 the car is smart and it will tune itself for headers intake and so on. 2 you just replace the computer with a open unit, and tune it any way you want. No big deal. I don't expect GM to provide warranty once I put a wrench to the motor.

PLRX

B747VET

I think it's probably too early to spend time speculating on something we really know nothing about.

What perhaps is worth considering is that with the introduction of the C7, and the ensuing new ZO6 and ZR1 type cars, Corvettes for the first time are going to be elevating into the world of the Ferraris and other high end euro cars. Yes, while the performance has increasingly been there for a number of years now, starting with the C4 ZR1, followed by the C5/C6 ZO6 cars, and finally the C6 ZR1, the value has obviously not begun to be retained until the latest ZR1's evolved. Now, with the C7 we will likely have a whole new ball game.

They are no longer going to be cars in serious need of hot ridding. They are going to likely become cars valued for what they are, not for what they might someday become if another 10 to 20 grand is tossed at them.

Additionally, as we are beginning to see with the C7, through economy of scale, the components of the C7 and then the C8 will be of such intrinsic high end technical value that beating their performance parameters will not just be difficult but expensive to the point that it increasingly will become a rich guys game.

Some Ferrari exhaust systems can run almost $6,000 to replace, let alone elevate to a superior level of performance. When the stock performance equipment reaches that level of excellence, very few owners have the desire or free flowing excess funds necessary to play the upgrade game, especially when it actually devalues a car.

That doesn't mean that a C7 upgrading industry won't exist, just that it will likely evolve to a much higher level of quality, performance and general excellence than in the past. Just as a hot upgrade in the 70's was a big Holley or Edelbrock carb/manifold setup, the same percentage increase in the performance of the C7 or a C7 ZO6 is going to run maybe 10 to 20 times as much.

Think of companies of a caliber and cost factor similar to Callaway, Lingenfelter, or Caravaggio as being the norm for C7 mods as opposed to the super high end sources of mods they are now.

Anyway, food for thought.