Carbon Fiber Drive Shaft
01-28-2013, 07:05 PM
#25
01-28-2013, 09:19 PM
#27
Safety Car
The one above isnt just prettier.. its pretty strong too.
"Originally Posted by PFADT
The stock drive shaft and rubber guibo ends weigh 8.85 pounds. The Pfadt Carbon Fiber drive shaft assembly weighs only 4.28 pounds!! That is a weight savings of 52%. What's important is that this weight reduction is rotating mass.
Most after market drive shafts require the purchase of heavy rubber or aluminum guibo's to complete the install. These heavy ends eliminate almost all the weight savings over a stock set up and do nothing for improving reliability. The most common drive shaft failure is with the guibo.
Our driveshaft has been tested to 2300 ft-lb of torque on our fixture and we have over 500,000 cycles at 1350 ft-lb of torque for reliability testing. A single cycle at that torque will fail a stock driveshaft.
If you need high performance and reliability advantages, the Pfadt Carbon Fiber Driveshaft is for you!
We have versions available for all 2001 and newer Corvettes."
01-28-2013, 10:30 PM
#28
You still didn't answer the question though...
What are tangible differences, if any, between a Carbon Fiber Composite Driveshaft and a Carbon Fiber Driveshaft?
You said they're not the same so explain how they're different.
01-29-2013, 12:35 AM
#29
The SLS has a full carbon fiber driveshaft. That is sheets of carbon fiber laid over and over and over. Much more expensive to manufacture. Carbon fiber composite driveshafts have carbon fiber woven through a composite material. They are heavier and cheaper.
01-29-2013, 11:19 AM
#30
There are a couple of different types of carbon composite driveshafts...
Some use woven fabric like the pfadt one, while others use carbon threads that are spun into a cylindrical shape.
As far as weight goes... dropping a few lbs from the chassis might not make much difference, but dropping 4 lbs from the driveline will speed up the engine's response allowing for quicker acceleration and deceleration.
An aftermarket driveshaft isnt for everyone, but those who want (and can afford) every advantage that can get will benefit from one. For the average person with a manual you could increase the response from your car with a lighter flywheel and/or crank pulley and pay less. With an auto youre pretty much limited to a lighter crank pulley and a carbon driveshaft. On older cars with fans attached directly to the motor, removing the fan and adding an electrical version also helps.
Some use woven fabric like the pfadt one, while others use carbon threads that are spun into a cylindrical shape.
As far as weight goes... dropping a few lbs from the chassis might not make much difference, but dropping 4 lbs from the driveline will speed up the engine's response allowing for quicker acceleration and deceleration.
An aftermarket driveshaft isnt for everyone, but those who want (and can afford) every advantage that can get will benefit from one. For the average person with a manual you could increase the response from your car with a lighter flywheel and/or crank pulley and pay less. With an auto youre pretty much limited to a lighter crank pulley and a carbon driveshaft. On older cars with fans attached directly to the motor, removing the fan and adding an electrical version also helps.
01-29-2013, 11:32 AM
#31
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It's interesting to see so many negative attitudes toward something that would actually be a large benefit. These composite/carbon fiber driveshafts have been around for quite awhile now and have certainly come down in price. They provide a considerable benefit regarding rotating mass, weight, drivetrain power loss, fuel economy and it's a no lose situation. It's the same principle as comparing steel wheels with carbon fiber wheels. Open your mind.
01-29-2013, 01:38 PM
#32
You guys do realize that Carbon Fiber is a composite material? And you guys do realize that Carbon Fiber is just a shorter label for Carbon Fiber Composite, right?
I doubt anyone here can provide any meaningful difference between the parts, and certainly not by these labels, no matter how much they'd want to believe that 'they are not the same'.
I think you all are caught up in semantics instead of the real point being made.
Mazda was able to put a CF Driveshaft in a car that cost half the price of a new Corvette. Cost shouldn't have been a major factor here and probably was a design or perceived benefit decision.
“Every gram has to earn its way onto the car"
01-29-2013, 08:34 PM
#33
I like the maintenance free alloy shaft better. The advantage to using carbon in this location is minimal for a street car.
01-29-2013, 09:30 PM
#34
Not trying to be abrasive but there is no difference in maintenance because there is no maintenance, and you can certainly feel the change in response on a car that's had its drivetrain lightened.
01-29-2013, 09:41 PM
#35
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01-29-2013, 09:45 PM
#36
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01-30-2013, 09:28 AM
#37
Interesting but if that is an accurate distinction, then why would Mercedes themselves often call the driveshaft in the SLS a 'Carbon Fiber Composite Driveshaft'?
You guys do realize that Carbon Fiber is a composite material? And you guys do realize that Carbon Fiber is just a shorter label for Carbon Fiber Composite, right?
I doubt anyone here can provide any meaningful difference between the parts, and certainly not by these labels, no matter how much they'd want to believe that 'they are not the same'.
I think you all are caught up in semantics instead of the real point being made.
Mazda was able to put a CF Driveshaft in a car that cost half the price of a new Corvette. Cost shouldn't have been a major factor here and probably was a design or perceived benefit decision.
“Every gram has to earn its way onto the car"
You guys do realize that Carbon Fiber is a composite material? And you guys do realize that Carbon Fiber is just a shorter label for Carbon Fiber Composite, right?
I doubt anyone here can provide any meaningful difference between the parts, and certainly not by these labels, no matter how much they'd want to believe that 'they are not the same'.
I think you all are caught up in semantics instead of the real point being made.
Mazda was able to put a CF Driveshaft in a car that cost half the price of a new Corvette. Cost shouldn't have been a major factor here and probably was a design or perceived benefit decision.
“Every gram has to earn its way onto the car"
http://www.350z-tech.com/forums/985527-post4.html
The 350Z's OEM propeller shaft (driveshaft) is a carbon fiber reinforced composite unit. It uses a crosswound lay-up suspended in epoxy resin. A process developed by Toray Industries, with the final product being manufactured by Hitachi.
There are basically two ways to make a CF driveshaft (that I am aware of). The one listed above, and the filament (pull) wound method used by ACPT (main aftermarket supplier of your friend's Subie shaft).
The latter method is about 10% lighter, and more expensive to make, other than that it's a wash. On a car like an STI, which has an aluminum unit as stock, the weight reduction created by going to CF is worthwhile. It is definitely worth it on cars that has a steel shaft. But on the Z, I don't think the cost-to-benefit ratio is there.
There are basically two ways to make a CF driveshaft (that I am aware of). The one listed above, and the filament (pull) wound method used by ACPT (main aftermarket supplier of your friend's Subie shaft).
The latter method is about 10% lighter, and more expensive to make, other than that it's a wash. On a car like an STI, which has an aluminum unit as stock, the weight reduction created by going to CF is worthwhile. It is definitely worth it on cars that has a steel shaft. But on the Z, I don't think the cost-to-benefit ratio is there.
i like to think of our driveshaft as less of carbon fiber and more of carbon fiber reinforced plastic. it like radiator core support material with a different blend. i work with real carbon fiber tubes at my work and that stuff is waaaay different from our drive shaft and hella strong/light. a half inch wall 3" diameter tube with fiberglass cladding weighs around ten pounds at 4' length. and those shafts hold up over a ton of weight, and thats after we punch a ton holes in it. the plastic is garbage in comparison that is designed to snap in half in an accident so it doesn't enter the cabin or force the motor up into the firewall.
In any case, we have a definitive answer.
It's going to be steel.
12-08-2022, 12:56 PM
#38
Looking for this product
I was just reading an article on the Mercedes SLS and they mentioned the car comes with a fiber carbon shaft.
So it got me curious with all this weight reduction that Corvette engineers are doing, have they replaced the drive shaft with a carbon fiber shaft?
I am aware that there are aftermarket shafts such as LG motorsports and PFADT that sells them at $2000.
I recall Jay Leno 66 Toronado was fitted with a CF shaft. Engine used was an LS 1,070-horsepower twin-turbocharged V-8 GM Performance Parts prototype crate engine
Mercedes SLS CF shaft torque tube
So it got me curious with all this weight reduction that Corvette engineers are doing, have they replaced the drive shaft with a carbon fiber shaft?
I am aware that there are aftermarket shafts such as LG motorsports and PFADT that sells them at $2000.
I recall Jay Leno 66 Toronado was fitted with a CF shaft. Engine used was an LS 1,070-horsepower twin-turbocharged V-8 GM Performance Parts prototype crate engine
Mercedes SLS CF shaft torque tube