Racer

Yes, you are confused. You can have the worst paint job in the world with big chunks of dirt and orange peel in the base. If you put enough clear on it and sand that clear flat and polish it, you are going to see a PERFECTLY FLAT paint job.

tuxnharley

Wow - well, you are right in one sense in that I don't have your hands on experience with painting. What's interesting tho is how you seem to think that makes you an expert on the conditions on my car from your location about 1500+ miles away. You must have really good vision!

So - are you trying to tell me that there is no orange peel in the base coat paint on my LMB '06? If you were talking about the finish on my after market spoiler you'd be right, 'cuz I know how that was prepped. If you're talking about the factory paint job you are just flat wrong. (pun intended)

PS - don't dislocate your shoulder patting yourself on the back.....

tuxnharley

Well, maybe that's the problem on my car then - there just isn't enough clear on it to cover up the orange peel in the base coat. I'm looking for some middle ground here, but you make it tough when you try to tell me I can't see orange peel in the base coat on my car............

Clear coat covers up big chunks of dirt..................??????????????????

BTW - the car looks great from 10 feet away, and I love the color. Reread my first post in this thread - #17. In case you were wondering, I don't "hate" it!

Racer

OK, IF your car does not have enough clear to overcome the Orange peel, then you will have to live with it. BUT, I have not seen any Corvette paint jobs that cannot have paint correction done to fix it. (sanding and polishing)
But I have seen guys paint three coats of Acrylic urethane (very orange peely) and then put two coats of clear on it and they were screwed, not enough clear to overcome their butchery of the art of painting.

CaryBob

Almost no OP on my 2012 blade silver. One tiny area on a rear quarter that you have to get close to and stare at

Racer

Back in the day, we used to do candy metalflake paint jobs. We put so much product and large flakes on, you could cut your hand on the metalflakes that were standing on end in the paint job. (This is before we clear coated it) They were very orange peely because of the insane amount of candy coats etc. We then applied around 12 coats of clear and it looked really, orange peely. Then, block/board sand the the whole paint job with 150 grit, yes 150 grit, until the surface was perfectly flat, then reclear with another 6-10 coats, then wet sand and polish. The paint job was slick, smooth and straight as a laser. Looked like it had a thick piece of glass over it. Moral of the story, doesn't matter how orange peely or dry sprayed it is below the clear, if you have enough clear on it to sand it flat, it will look smooth as glass.

Corvette ED

You just don't understand how base coat/clear coat paint works. In a base coat/clear coat paint job the base coat is applied this is the color of your paint. The paint will be flat and has no shine. The clear coat is sprayed over top of the base coat and this is what gives the paint it shine look. The clear is where the orange peel is. By wet sanding and buffing the clear coat the orange peel will be gone and the paint surface will be flat giving you a deep gloss look.

Also what Talon 90 said about the factory has to meet government regulations for the paints. The Corvette uses waterbase paint instead of paint thinned by paint thinners.

Racer's post about a bad paint job with dirt and orange peel is correct. If you have enough of clear you can sand and buff and make it look good.

Aerovette

Maybe your definition of "orange peel" is where you are getting tangled in the tall grass.

Orange peel is a "texture". If you have orange peel on your car, it is in the clear or both, but sanding and polishing the clear, makes the base OP disappear. If it doesn't go away by wet sanding and buffing/polishing, then I think it could be something else you're seeing.

This...

...is as true as it gets. I spent my formative years visiting my uncle's body shop and can tell you the top coat cures a lot of ills. On a smaller scale (literally) I have had the same experience painting models and diecast cars. If there is a flaw, the clear will do a LOT of repair.

That being said, I would tolerate orange peel a LOT more if I knew there was sufficient clear coat on the car that I could cut it down and polish it out.

talon90

It can be either or both.

For those starting down the road of wet sanding, wetsanding can make a difference. Make sure the shop doing it is competent. It is true that the clear coat on the Corvette is very hard, it is also fairly thin. If someone isn't sure that they are doing they can break through the clear easily. I've made a little sketch below to illustrate what you are dealing with.

^^^^^^ clear
^^^^^^ base color

The orange peel that you see likely originated in the color coat. The clear coat, while it may have some orange peel of its own, is equally highlighting the OP in the base color. You won't get all of the OP with a wetsand of the clear. You will cover it up or smooth some of the appearance of it. What is likely left will look like this:

__________ clear
^^^^^^^^ base color

If they are not careful, it can end up like this:

__ __ __ ___ clear
^^^^^^^ base color

Which will lead to oxidation of the color coat once exposed to the elements. You need to be particularly careful on edges and sharp angles.

Keep in mind also that your clear coat is your UV protection against fading. At an approximate max coat weight of about 2.2 mils (.0022"), you don't have a lot of room to work with. For reference a sheet of lined office paper is approximately .003".

Racer

Got to explain one thing you said that might be misleading

If you have this

___________ Clear
^^^^^^^^ Base coat
your paint job is going to look like this.

__________________ There are NO maybe's about it.

Also, if there is enough clear, you WILL remove all the Orange peel.

talon90

No, actually you won't. You will hide it. If Orange peel is in the color coat you can't remove it by only sanding the clear coat. You can improve by lowering the highest of high spots which will take away its ability to reflect and refract light which accents the imperfection. It however will still be under the smooth clear with the peaks sanded off and the valleys filled in with clear which will make it less likely to be seen.

clayton1

That video made me like this car ALOT more (alot because I really havent warmed up to it much yet before seeing video).
Id say I went from 4/10 to 7/10 !

Racer

Orange peel is what the outer surface has and yes you will remove it, if you sand it flat.

Dry spray can be mistaken for Orange peel by some uneducated people.

Bottom line, these two finishes (dry spray/orange peel) are what you see on the surface.
That, in the automotive refinishing business are how the terms are used. If you can't see or feel Orange peel, you don't have Orange peel.

Racer

My point is, surface is surface, if the color coat of which you speak that has orange peel, does not get a top coat of clear (like how they paint some rat Rods), then yes, it would then be the surface that has Orange peel, but as soon as you top coat it with Clear, the Orange peel is now on the surface and the color coat is below the surface.
Sure it followed the contours of the base that might of had orange peel, plus added to it when the clear did not flow out properly, but there is only one place Orange peel is and that is on the surface.

Swiftrider08

And just to throw another twist into this, with the OEM I work for, and I will not say who, we find the orange peel issue originates in the primer. Sand the primer flat and no orange peel the rest of the way thru the process.

There are just too many variables to say fix this or fix that and orange peel will go away. All comes down to what plant has what application equipment, paint, skilled labor and the spray booth environment on that particular day. Tomorrow could all be different. Now I am talking about a production line paint shop and not a custom body shop that has time to tweak the process as they go.

So many people have this idea that because robots paint cars these days that it is no more involved than a robot putting a bolt in a hole or applying a spot weld. One simple thing people don't realize is that when paint leaves the applicaor, flies thru the air and then lands on the body part, that brief moment in time of the paint particles flying thru the air you have ZERO control over what happens to the paint. Now certainly after you know the result, you can make changes and hope the next application is better, but you are reacting to what just happened. The next time the paint flies thru the air something different can happen and then you react to that and on and on.

This is why you sand between coats and do a final wet sand and buff for a perfect paint job. You just can not control the application with the perfection that will give no defects or orange peel. Just can not be done. Period.

Now one last thing I find a bit funny - A new Lexus that is going to Europe will have the primer coat sanded and have one of the best final finshes in the industry, but, those that are coming to the USA do not get this treatment as they think most Americans DO NOT CARE about orange peel. Honestly, most people out there buying cars today, don't care. (And no, I don't work for Toyota!)

And Paul, keep fighting the good fight, your doing an awesome job!

(You too Racer. I know your a talanted guy with some great experience and I have alot of respect for that.)

bolteon593

that is interesting.


to some degree the idea behind the primer being the major culprit makes sense. i'm not a painter by any means but from what i remember, the primary is largely a filler, and could be susceptible to clumping... ie basis of orange peel?

Racer

Thanks, I am going to say that yes, if primer is not sanded well it can lead to Orange peel. But usually (hopefully ) primer is always sanded flat. Anyways, you can get Orange peel with wrong reducer/thinner, wrong air pressure, wrong temp (kind of ties in with wrong reducer/thinner), wrong tip on your gun, wrong settings of your gun, wrong application, humidity problems, and a few more reasons. If it was easy anybody could do it. Forgot to say, yes I am a journeyman painter with papers and have instructed at GM paint clinics also. Ok, done patting myself on the back.

RC000E

Well, it is possible there is some mild orange in the base, but generally base lays a lot flatter than clear. Flattening out your clear is still going to make a world of difference in the finish...no question.

What it comes down to though is, if you want a hand finished...ESPECIALLY wet sanded primer, base and clear coats...you're talkin Aston Martin, Koenigsegg, Lamborghini type finishes....you gotta pay.

jb_va2001

The paint is excellent on my 2013, no OP, no flaws.

FWIW, I went to a large car show this past summer, a 2010 Corvette in factory CRM won "Best Paint." Great news for Corvettes I thought, but there is more to the story. We learned later that one show sponsor was a local custom painter who was displeased with the choice of a factory paint job for "Best Paint.". Before the awards were announced we saw the judges & the custom painter return to the CRM Corvette and re-scored it (the C6 won even with the extra scrutiny). Asking why they returned a second time is how we ultimately learned that the judges were trying to find more faults and keep the C6 from winning the trophy.

I would expect the C7 to have equal or better paint to the C6.

Cheers,
JB

SSTEVEGS

I like the finish on my '08 JSB, especially when I compared it to my neighbor's '08 Ferrari F430 'vert. The Ferrari's finish was inferior to my Corvette. Perhaps his was painted on a "bad environmental" day and mine wasn't. I'm sure humidity plays a huge part in the paint application affect. Maybe even barometric pressure?!?