Marketing the Corvette: What GM doesn’t get
01-23-2013, 02:13 PM
#41
I echo De Lorenzo’s sentiments for the most part. I said it in many other posts...the Corvette brand needs to go beyond the “great for the money, ”the plastic fantastic” and the “cheap interior is acceptable for the performance you get.” The C7 is the start of that new direction…it is what the Corvette deserves. The Corvette is arguably the most iconic sports cars in the world and it cannot continue to progress without moving beyond the box that it has been in for decades.
Corvettes are not cheap, even in standard form, so they notion of even calling it affordable does not apply anymore. Are Corvettes attainable? Yes, but certainly not affordable. The standard C7 offers amazing performance…the kind that will never be maximized on the street and most likely never on the track, unless driven by a skilled driver. The Z06 and ZR1 are special and not for everyone to own. The Z twins will continue to move upmarket because they have to in order to compete. They are the flagships and should be marketed and positioned as such.
Many Corvette traditionalists are afraid of change. They are afraid of what they think they are losing because that's what they’ve been used to for decades, but ironically, no one is losing anything. The Corvette is simply growing and every other sports car manufacturer is too. Growing the Corvette brand requires going beyond the past. GM must look forward to the Corvette’s future as well. I’d like to think that people would be happy to see the brand grow. Mediocrity will not help the Corvette in any way.
Corvettes are not cheap, even in standard form, so they notion of even calling it affordable does not apply anymore. Are Corvettes attainable? Yes, but certainly not affordable. The standard C7 offers amazing performance…the kind that will never be maximized on the street and most likely never on the track, unless driven by a skilled driver. The Z06 and ZR1 are special and not for everyone to own. The Z twins will continue to move upmarket because they have to in order to compete. They are the flagships and should be marketed and positioned as such.
Many Corvette traditionalists are afraid of change. They are afraid of what they think they are losing because that's what they’ve been used to for decades, but ironically, no one is losing anything. The Corvette is simply growing and every other sports car manufacturer is too. Growing the Corvette brand requires going beyond the past. GM must look forward to the Corvette’s future as well. I’d like to think that people would be happy to see the brand grow. Mediocrity will not help the Corvette in any way.
Very well put!
01-23-2013, 02:17 PM
#42
Race Director
De Lorenzo's ideas are wacky and not applicable here, but the article does reflect a fundamental problem: GM is in deep trouble financially and as a brand, it it is showing more and more every day. As has been said before, it is a pension system for union workers that produces cars. The Obama bailout avoided all of the needed structural reforms that would make this company competitive with peers. Because of this (yes, politics has everything to do with GM), the company's products must fit a tighter and tighter budget and marketing box.
In the middle of all this, the Corvette team has done an incredible job of bringing this vehicle to market. It is a small miracle that it exists at all and a bigger one that it survived the latest GM crisis.
In the middle of all this, the Corvette team has done an incredible job of bringing this vehicle to market. It is a small miracle that it exists at all and a bigger one that it survived the latest GM crisis.
Last edited by TTRotary; 01-23-2013 at 02:24 PM.
01-23-2013, 06:28 PM
#43
Le Mans Master
Controversial political claims about what GM is do not belong anywhere but PR&C.
You could have made your point without the controversy. It's a good point -- C7 is quite an achievement, moreso considering the financial mess its parent has been in.
You could have made your point without the controversy. It's a good point -- C7 is quite an achievement, moreso considering the financial mess its parent has been in.
01-23-2013, 06:32 PM
#44
gm tried this with saturn and we know how that turned out.seperate enity.
01-23-2013, 06:43 PM
#45
Team Owner
Corvette sales?? Where do you think Caddy will get the engine for such a vehicle?
http://www.leftlanenews.com/cadillac...ports-car.html
http://www.leftlanenews.com/cadillac...ports-car.html
Sad to say but the appeal to a Vette is more to a motorhead than it is to a Yuppie. Thing is, there's a lot more rich yuppies than there are rich motorheads. I just can't see the sales figures going up substantially until they change the Corvette into something it's not.
01-23-2013, 09:54 PM
#46
Racer
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I think he's on the right track. I'm glad they redesigned the Corvette and plan on adding a C7 to the garage in the fall only because it's going to be a superior car to the previous generations, but, the entire rear of the car is a train wreck of a design. Regardless of what appears to be popular opinion on this thread I think they're moving in that direction with the Stingray name for the new model. I was looking through one of the C6 threads and stumbled on a brochure for the 2013 models. Counting all the different "models", it appears like it's already it's own brand without actually having any real differences between them other than basically engines. There are what appears to be 8 different models for one car? That's insane and nothing more than recycling old technology in a package that to the average person looks the same. If you want to have a true halo car and a value model at least make them different enough so that the casual onlooker can notice it. Regardless of what the diehards on here think Jane Doe can't tell the difference in a C5 and a C6 ZR1 other than ground effects. It's sort of insulting really that most Corvette enthusiasts are so caught up in the marketing that they'd pay $80,000 more for what amounts to a different engine and some side skirts. A car that costs close to THREE TIMES what a base model costs SHOULD be completely different and unlike what a few posters think it should be unattainable to 99% of the public. That's what makes it special.
01-24-2013, 12:36 PM
#47
Race Director
And by the way, I have not made any political statement about where I stand, so I am not sure what it is that appears controversial. That would indeed belong in PR&C.
Last edited by TTRotary; 01-24-2013 at 12:38 PM.
01-24-2013, 03:02 PM
#48
Melting Slicks
Sorry, but I disagree. The bailout outcome has everything to do with how it runs it's business today, because it is all about managing around GM's structural issues which place it at a relative disadvantage to competitors. These are not claims. They are fact, and everybody knows it, including potential and existing customers and GM management. It may not be a pleasant topic, but pretending it doesn't exist won't make it go away, and it cannot be decoupled from how products, including Corvette, are managed.
And by the way, I have not made any political statement about where I stand, so I am not sure what it is that appears controversial. That would indeed belong in PR&C.
And by the way, I have not made any political statement about where I stand, so I am not sure what it is that appears controversial. That would indeed belong in PR&C.
Speaking facts rather than political rhetoric, let's examine what Tadge Juechter has said.
1) In 2009, under the previous CEO, the C7 project was completely unfunded and dead.
2) Post bankruptcy, Treasury Department consultants gave the green light to go forward with the C7 project saying it was in the interests of taxpayers to continue the C7 project as a top priority item.
3) Corvette sales are at the lowest level in the last 50 years, and the C6, a subtle makeover of the C5, has sold at a "sickly" level of 13,000 units for the last four years.
4) The global premium sports car segment, which includes the 911 & the Corvette, has seen sales plummet by 66% since 2006.
5). The C7 has to capture the imagination of those in their 20s, 30s, & 40s or the Corvette will die. Thus the complete remake and evolutionary nature of the C7 decried by so many Corvette old guys.
As Tadge also said, it's hard to convince the younger generations that the Corvette isn't an old man's car when every guy they see driving it is bald or has white hair. Want to help the Corvette survive? Maybe slap on a wig or dye your white hair!
Certainly looks like Tadge should follow his own advice.
All that having been said, as one of the posters above said, please take hardcore or biased political views to the appropriate section. But, fact based comments are always welcome.
Last edited by B747VET; 01-24-2013 at 07:51 PM.
01-24-2013, 03:08 PM
#49
As the saying goes, what you believe politically speaks so loud that I cannot hear anything else you say. I will only respond that the issues are far more complex than you allude and would have others believe.
Speaking facts rather than political rhetoric, let's examine what Tadge Juechter has said.
1) In 2009, under the previous CEO, the C7 project was completely unfunded and dead.
2) Post bankruptcy, Treasury Department consultants gave the green light to go forward with the C7 project saying it was in the interests of taxpayers to continue the C7 project as a top priority item.
3) Corvette sales are at the lowest level in the last 50 years, and the C6, a subtle makeover of the C5, has sold at a "sickly" level of 13,000 units for the last four years.
4) The global premium sports car segment, which includes the 911 & the Corvette, has seen sales plummet by 66% since 2006.
5). The C7 has to capture the imagination of those in their 20s, 30s, & 40s or the Corvette will die. Thus the complete remake and evolutionary nature of the C7 decried by so many Corvette old guys.
As Tadge also said, it's hard to convince the younger generations that the Corvette isn't an old man's car when every guy they see driving it is bald or has white hair. Want to help the Corvette survive? Maybe slap on a wig or die your white hair!
All that having been said, as one of the posters above said, please take hardcore or biased political views to the appropriate section. But, fact based comments are always welcome.
Speaking facts rather than political rhetoric, let's examine what Tadge Juechter has said.
1) In 2009, under the previous CEO, the C7 project was completely unfunded and dead.
2) Post bankruptcy, Treasury Department consultants gave the green light to go forward with the C7 project saying it was in the interests of taxpayers to continue the C7 project as a top priority item.
3) Corvette sales are at the lowest level in the last 50 years, and the C6, a subtle makeover of the C5, has sold at a "sickly" level of 13,000 units for the last four years.
4) The global premium sports car segment, which includes the 911 & the Corvette, has seen sales plummet by 66% since 2006.
5). The C7 has to capture the imagination of those in their 20s, 30s, & 40s or the Corvette will die. Thus the complete remake and evolutionary nature of the C7 decried by so many Corvette old guys.
As Tadge also said, it's hard to convince the younger generations that the Corvette isn't an old man's car when every guy they see driving it is bald or has white hair. Want to help the Corvette survive? Maybe slap on a wig or die your white hair!
All that having been said, as one of the posters above said, please take hardcore or biased political views to the appropriate section. But, fact based comments are always welcome.
01-24-2013, 04:01 PM
#50
Le Mans Master
With this car, they are not only trying to bring yunger generations to Corvette, but to Chevrolet as a whole.
Corvette is less a halo car as it is a spotlight. If the Corvette is seen as exciting to a younger generation, the other cars might look good to them as well. Sure, the young twenty something just starting out can't buy a Corvette today, but they can buy a Cruze, or a Malibu right now. If you want to draw these kids from the big "H" you gotta make them look at the "bowtie", to do that, you gotta give 'em something to look at. The Corvette needs to be that beacon that draws 'em into the Chevy harbor, so to speak.
Corvette is less a halo car as it is a spotlight. If the Corvette is seen as exciting to a younger generation, the other cars might look good to them as well. Sure, the young twenty something just starting out can't buy a Corvette today, but they can buy a Cruze, or a Malibu right now. If you want to draw these kids from the big "H" you gotta make them look at the "bowtie", to do that, you gotta give 'em something to look at. The Corvette needs to be that beacon that draws 'em into the Chevy harbor, so to speak.
01-24-2013, 04:14 PM
#51
Team Owner
GM has made it very clear they are putting us old guys out to pasture.
I have never owned Jaguar(but the first time I did 150 was in a 1965 XKE) and I have never signed up with Jaguar for any mailings, etc.
Today, I received a nice mailing(USPS), addressed to me(not to occupant), on the Jaguar F-Type. I guess that Jaguar doesn't feel my money is to old for them. They went to the trouble to see if I was a potential customer for their sports car.
GM knows who I am, as I've purchased my last two Corvettes(C5 & C6 Z06) new from them, plus other cars. Maybe they are afraid that if they contact me, I will ask them "what's the deal with the LS7's dropping valves?".
I have never owned Jaguar(but the first time I did 150 was in a 1965 XKE) and I have never signed up with Jaguar for any mailings, etc.
Today, I received a nice mailing(USPS), addressed to me(not to occupant), on the Jaguar F-Type. I guess that Jaguar doesn't feel my money is to old for them. They went to the trouble to see if I was a potential customer for their sports car.
GM knows who I am, as I've purchased my last two Corvettes(C5 & C6 Z06) new from them, plus other cars. Maybe they are afraid that if they contact me, I will ask them "what's the deal with the LS7's dropping valves?".
01-24-2013, 04:26 PM
#52
Race Director
As the saying goes, what you believe politically speaks so loud that I cannot hear anything else you say. I will only respond that the issues are far more complex than you allude and would have others believe.
Speaking facts rather than political rhetoric, let's examine what Tadge Juechter has said. But, fact based comments are always welcome.
Speaking facts rather than political rhetoric, let's examine what Tadge Juechter has said. But, fact based comments are always welcome.
Both statements are true, appropriate, and apolitical. You can ask any finance guy and they will concur. And I would remind you that the act of attempting to portray the messenger of this information as political, is a political statement in itself that definitely does not belong here.
BTW, for a guy who claims to espouse facts, you'd better redact most of your post, because it is mostly based on supposition and opinion.
Last edited by TTRotary; 01-24-2013 at 04:31 PM.
01-24-2013, 04:31 PM
#53
Team Owner
01-24-2013, 04:43 PM
#54
GM has made it very clear they are putting us old guys out to pasture.
I have never owned Jaguar(but the first time I did 150 was in a 1965 XKE) and I have never signed up with Jaguar for any mailings, etc.
Today, I received a nice mailing(USPS), addressed to me(not to occupant), on the Jaguar F-Type. I guess that Jaguar doesn't feel my money is to old for them. They went to the trouble to see if I was a potential customer for their sports car.
GM knows who I am, as I've purchased my last two Corvettes(C5 & C6 Z06) new from them, plus other cars. Maybe they are afraid that if they contact me, I will ask them "what's the deal with the LS7's dropping valves?".
I have never owned Jaguar(but the first time I did 150 was in a 1965 XKE) and I have never signed up with Jaguar for any mailings, etc.
Today, I received a nice mailing(USPS), addressed to me(not to occupant), on the Jaguar F-Type. I guess that Jaguar doesn't feel my money is to old for them. They went to the trouble to see if I was a potential customer for their sports car.
GM knows who I am, as I've purchased my last two Corvettes(C5 & C6 Z06) new from them, plus other cars. Maybe they are afraid that if they contact me, I will ask them "what's the deal with the LS7's dropping valves?".
I hope you get that Jag because then in a year or so you'll come back wanting a C7. That Jag will really go well on Taladega.
01-24-2013, 04:52 PM
#55
GM has made it very clear they are putting us old guys out to pasture.
I have never owned Jaguar(but the first time I did 150 was in a 1965 XKE) and I have never signed up with Jaguar for any mailings, etc.
Today, I received a nice mailing(USPS), addressed to me(not to occupant), on the Jaguar F-Type. I guess that Jaguar doesn't feel my money is to old for them. They went to the trouble to see if I was a potential customer for their sports car.
GM knows who I am, as I've purchased my last two Corvettes(C5 & C6 Z06) new from them, plus other cars. Maybe they are afraid that if they contact me, I will ask them "what's the deal with the LS7's dropping valves?".
I have never owned Jaguar(but the first time I did 150 was in a 1965 XKE) and I have never signed up with Jaguar for any mailings, etc.
Today, I received a nice mailing(USPS), addressed to me(not to occupant), on the Jaguar F-Type. I guess that Jaguar doesn't feel my money is to old for them. They went to the trouble to see if I was a potential customer for their sports car.
GM knows who I am, as I've purchased my last two Corvettes(C5 & C6 Z06) new from them, plus other cars. Maybe they are afraid that if they contact me, I will ask them "what's the deal with the LS7's dropping valves?".
01-24-2013, 05:00 PM
#56
Race Director
You sound like a spoiled little brat. Just because GM is aiming at a broader audience, you take that as a slap in the face. Why? Because of some different tail lights? What a joke.
I hope you get that Jag because then in a year or so you'll come back wanting a C7. That Jag will really go well on Taladega.
I hope you get that Jag because then in a year or so you'll come back wanting a C7. That Jag will really go well on Taladega.
The only folks who will have to get used to a new reality is GM execs looking at poor sales numbers if the design is not well received, or if there are other issues with the car (quality being the #1 concern) such that this new demographic does not come to reality - and it has not in the past. Customers, for their part, will vote with their wallets and have a huge range of choices. It is definitely a buyers' market.
As to owning a Jaguar - they look great, but I'll be staying the hell away. Dead last in reliability.
01-24-2013, 05:01 PM
#57
Team Owner
You sound like a spoiled little brat. Just because GM is aiming at a broader audience, you take that as a slap in the face. Why? Because of some different tail lights? What a joke.
I hope you get that Jag because then in a year or so you'll come back wanting a C7. That Jag will really go well on Taladega.
I hope you get that Jag because then in a year or so you'll come back wanting a C7. That Jag will really go well on Taladega.
01-24-2013, 05:10 PM
#58
Blue, I think a lot of the sour feelings comes from the alleged "they'll get used to it" statement. It remains to be seen whether this is accurate, but if it is, then that is in very poor form and exceedingly unwise. The Corvette brand cannot afford to lose ANY adherents, and yet, this statement smacks of "let them eat cake".
The only folks who will have to get used to a new reality is GM execs looking at poor sales numbers if the design is not well received, or if there are other issues with the car (quality being the #1 concern) such that this new demographic does not come to reality - and it has not in the past. Customers, for their part, will vote with their wallets and have a huge range of choices. It is definitely a buyers' market.
As to owning a Jaguar - they look great, but I'll be staying the hell away. Dead last in reliability.
The only folks who will have to get used to a new reality is GM execs looking at poor sales numbers if the design is not well received, or if there are other issues with the car (quality being the #1 concern) such that this new demographic does not come to reality - and it has not in the past. Customers, for their part, will vote with their wallets and have a huge range of choices. It is definitely a buyers' market.
As to owning a Jaguar - they look great, but I'll be staying the hell away. Dead last in reliability.
Seriously, what do you expect them to do? Broadening their audience in the best way they know how like they did with the C5 popup headlights was the most famous example and the C6 still sold 40k copies in one year.
01-24-2013, 05:12 PM
#59
I have no interest in the Jag, as I never asked for any mailings from them. But if I did get a F-Type (495 HP supercharged V8) I would take it to Talladega. Lots more fun actually driving my cars then being an internet superstar that drives around Sonic in their Corvette trying to impress the car hops.
Last edited by BlueOx; 01-24-2013 at 05:20 PM.
01-24-2013, 05:28 PM
#60
Race Director
The truth is that there are just going to be changes that come along that people won't like but to take it as personally as some do here is just immature. I understand not liking it. Hell, I never liked the C5, it looks like a cross between a bar of soap and the Oscar Meyer Weinermobile, but I never took it personally. I just held off the Corvette and looked elsewhere.
Seriously, what do you expect them to do? Broadening their audience in the best way they know how like they did with the C5 popup headlights was the most famous example and the C6 still sold 40k copies in one year.
Seriously, what do you expect them to do? Broadening their audience in the best way they know how like they did with the C5 popup headlights was the most famous example and the C6 still sold 40k copies in one year.
I can't expect them to do anything, but I think they ahave not gone about it intelligently. Dave Hill already tried to shift the demand demographic with the C5. Remember all those European buyers he was going to lure into the car. For a number of reasons which include costs, vehicle size, taxes, and perception of quality (or lack thereof), this did not happen. The C7 plan sounds like a re-play of the same, with a domestic market wrinkle. I don't think it will succeed for many of the same reasons.
There are really only 2 ways to skin the volume-hurdle cat. One is to attempt to expand the market - which any business guy knows is damned near impossible in a mature industry, or (2) expand the production usage of the basic architecture. They did the latter timidly with the XLR, but that was a failure because they expanded to a brand new niche vehicle. My personal opinion is that they should expand the technology to Camaro and others, including a pure, basic sports car with a different name - something 30-somethings can really afford that would go up against the likes of the BRZ / F86 and similar.