Stingray23

Most car guys are cool, but there will always be a couple of a$$holes sprinkled here and there within each group.

MikeyTX

Like the Mustang GT driver that turned left in front of me after my side got the green light. He flips me off as he makes the turn .......... Illegally

jb_va2001

Yeah, plumbers are successful until they get outsource that to China. Then what's GM gonna do?! Huh?

TP98

Very well said, blunt or not. Also very funny. There won't be a C8 if this isn't accepted by a younger group of enthusiasts. BTW, my 13 and 10 year old sons think the C7 is badass. They think of my C4 as a Model T. But they still like it.

Michael A

Glad to see this. Corvette owners need to usher in the next generation. At the same time, GM needs to do grass roots marketing as you describe. It's one person at a time. Then they tell their friends, and so on.

Michael

jb_va2001

Too many Corvette guys are over protective, they won't let anyone else drive their car. Give other people a chance to feel the thrill. I've been working on getting the whole family involved. I took one of my kids to Wixom for the Engine Build, I took the other to BG for the Buyer's Tour, and I took my spouse to the NCM for the delivery. I highly recommend it.

Cheers,
JB

AHW219

Well, I currently own C6, BMW 550i and MB (wife's). C6 did attract me to go to Chevy dealer. I'll say that dealership/showroom at BMW and MB was much nicer. I actually flew to buy C6 from a forum dealer-Boardwalk and only have praise about them. So Chevy (well vette not Chevy per se) can attract buyers from Euro luxo buyers. For me C7 design in it's current form does not stir me to consider purchase. As another member said first impression is important and anything after that is compromise. Those of you who love/like C7 put your wallet where your mouth is and go out and buy it to keep vette line going.

Pinky...

I thought you had a decent argument and then you made these two statements. Automatically, any credibility you might have had went right out the door.

jb_va2001

I had 2 BMWs before buying my C6.

GordyRay

GM guys are offering excuses. People buy cars that are attractive to them. I raised four kids. All of them would like to have a Corvette, but none of them can afford one yet. Older people own and drive Corvettes because they are the Americans that can afford to buy one. It is not an 'old mans' car. I have wanted to own Corvettes and Porsches my entire life since age 10. My sons and daughters are no different. They all plan to own both cars in the future as their incomes allow.

GM screwed the Corvette sales from C4-C6 by their ineffective dealer network. When you get treated better for buying a less expensive Cadillac than you do when buying a more expensive Corvette, they have missed the mark in delivering and meeting consumer desires/wants. The Chevy leaders cut corners too much on the continued development of the Corvette. Hence the reason for less competitive steering wheels, seats, Nav systems, radios, etc. When my dealership only provides a "loaner car" for when you bring in a Cadillac but not for a Corvette and my Corvette cost thousands more than the other car, that is a total failure on GM's part.
When I wash my Corvette, kids and adults of all ages come by and tell me how much they like Corvettes. People at work all say how they would love to own a Corvette, of all ages. GM needs to provide the "overall" service that Lexus and Honda and Audi provides to become competitive. It comes down to simple Free Interprise & smart marketing. Of course it looks like in the C7 they have decided not to cut corners anymore. The consumers will come back if you offer competitive products. It is not an age issue nor a background or professional status. My friends that attend our local Corvette Club are from all walks of life because they are proud owners of America's Sports Car and they love the performance of the car. 100% of the membership has enhanced their interiors of the car. What does that tell you GM???? Stop cutting corners and the younger people who can afford the C7 will head in your direction. GM needs to correct the treatment/handling of Corvette owners inside the service departments, etc. Maybe it would be a calculated smart move to move Corvette out of the Chevrolet division just as Dodge did with the SRT Viper. If you don't do this, then GM you had better treat Corvette owners as the Halo car that it is and make the care and feeding of customers want to come back to purchase another Corvette. Hence you better address the LS7 valve issue honestly or the word will spread and hurt sales, etc. The past history of Chevy towards Corvette owners has some negative past that needs to be cleaned up to improve long term sales.

The C7 ROCKS. It will be fun to drive and comfortable to haul *** in. WE need some good ole 'Red Blooded American" attitude in this new C7, but don't forget about 100% treatment in the service department just like the other leading car brands. The C6 has been the best Corvette yet, but many issues that I mentioned above has hurt overall sales. Comes down to a lack of proper senior leadership in the Executive offices. All of that can be corrected and we will save the Corvette for another 60 years.

jb_va2001

The average age of new Corvette & 911 buyers is in large part about the price, but it's also about practicality. When you have a young family in a new home, 2 seat sports cars aren't exactly the most responsible choice you can make. You likely still need another car that can drive through snow (in much of the country), make a trip to Home Depot, haul 4 people, and do other things a Corvette or other low slung 2 seat sports car is simply ill suited to do. So add to the cost of your Corvette, another practical vehicle.

C-4 Now

Bought first Vette @ 20. [66 Stingray] Have had many other cars over years besides many Vettes, including RX-7, 914 many muscle cars. Was ready to buy 2005 C-6 but was treated so bad @ stealership that bought C-4 Callaway instead! I'm very interested in C-7 and hope driving matches looks . Lean towards waiting for go-fast model. Car for me is always about being fun to drive!
I understand what many younger buyers are saying about other cars and hope C-7 does better for them including dealership sales & service. Have met many great car people young & old!!!

LooseScrew

X10

Aaron Keating

Yes, since running 13.10s for under 35 grand isn't stupid fast. But no one really bought the cars in bulk. Let alone the value that they provide now, at running those same times for less than 10 grand now. A gen 4 F body will stomp a C4 silly in the 1/4, stock to stock. For that matter with a little bit of love, it'll hang with a C5 easy. (Ie giving it access to the LS6 manifold, and camshaft) for a fraction of the cost. Unless of course you want to say the C5 isn't fast either. Both cars get access to most of the exact same speed parts as well. And the Gen4s and C4 and C5s weight differences are negligible (3300 something for an 02 SS IIRC, vs 3200 and change for the C4 and 5s, and 6s). With the F Body winning out with the better manual transmission vs the C4 certainly given it has a T56. The C5 gets the same trans true, but the Camaro got it first. So basically unless you're doing seriously hard core, corner carving the F Body is a much better value for comparable speed. And the Gen4 is hardly a slouch in the corners either for that matter.
The Mustang kicked the Gen 4 F body's *** all over the place in sales. Because the stang's interior wasn't the inside of a tupperware drawer.

And maybe I should take some pictures of my 86's interior for you. The interior quality certainly on the door panels is light years beyond what came in the C4, and in later vettes. If you can look at vinyl and plastic over rich 2 tone cloth 2 material and say "this looks better" then maybe not even the C7's radical interior can save you

Part of the point in one of my posts in this thread (maybe even the one you quoted IIRC) is GM doesn't make other cars that Matter anymore outside of the vette's price range. Everything else is either a pickuptruck, a fogey car, or the vette. The current Camaro isn't one, especially since fully loaded you can sometimes score a C6 in the exact same price range. That's part of the reason the Vette has the image problem it currently has. When you're stuck in a Senior Citizen Center, compared to your peers you're gonna look like a stick in the mud by comparison.

Pinky...

To your first point I would argue that I really don't care about straight line speed. It means nothing to me, zilch. IMO, the ability to handle far out weights how fast it moves, which attracted me to Corvette in the first place. The handling combined with big displacement and good fuel economy seals the deal. I'll respect that fact that you can make them fast on a budget, but that only goes so far for me.

Secondly, you commented that your 86 Camaro has a better interior that anything in GM's line up today. I'm getting the feeling you've never seen a 4LT equipped C6. There's nothing vinyl or plastic-y about them. Even without the pack, the interior or later models is fine. I will admit early year cars, it needs a certain something, but it is not as bad as the press makes it out to be.

EDIT: Curious at your claims of the curb weight, I did a little of my own investigating. A phone app I have which is usually very accurate claims 3,433 lbs. The below forum link has more of a consensus at high 34-3500 lbs.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/chevrolet-...rb-weight.html

The comment about the Mustang having better sales because of the interior is laughable too. Those interiors were just as gimmicky and plastic-y as the Camaros.

http://image.musclemustangfastfords....t+interior.jpg


Lastly, saying GM does not make cars that matter outside the Corvette's price point tells me you've never been anywhere near a Cadillac or Buick dealer recently. If you meant strictly Chevy, I'd maybe give you that. The Camaro is too fat and too expensive for what it is, and the rest of the vehicles are fogey cars, with maybe the exception being the Cruze, which is a surprisingly well put together compact. Out of any, the Cruze really needs the SS treatment. The Sonic and the Spark I couldn't give a rat's *** about.

Aaron Keating

The handling on the Birdy at least was really stout. (I had both for daily drivers, and autocross use) certainly vs the C4 which was the current Vette at that time (96 Bird), during my Bird's exact year. I also know for a fact that the 98-02 Birds got better spindles, sway bars and brakes, and I've had the luxury of driving one, via my mom's handling packaged 98 Camaro for a while. Other than the heavy steering wheel the car's handling was very solid. I've not driven a C5, or C6 personally but I hear alot of "heavy steering wheel feel" in terms of describing them too.

Vehicle weight,
http://consumerguideauto.howstuffwor...t-camaro-6.htm
http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/cam...tyle=100002300 Also the Auto is considerably heavier than the manual.


And lets face it the car pulls .89 G on the skid pad
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...k/viewall.html

That's no joke by any means. Considering for the extra dollars spent a C5 through the years of the birdy (non ZO6) only nets you another .02 Gs
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...k/viewall.html
And the vette benefited from having wider rubber, and a little stickier compound.

Even now with the crashing vette market for C5s there's still more than a little price difference between the cars, which with the money saved on the bird purchase vs the C5 could more than make up for that handling.

My bird which had the 3.8 and 5 speed and no options tipped the scales at 3190 without me in it. And the 3.8 is all cast iron save the intake manifold. The difference between the 3.8 and an LS1 weight is not substantial at all (certainly not 400lbs)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac...rd_Trans_Am.29

They got their LT and LS backwards on the tab on the side.

Mind you at 3200 to 3300 the car has next to 0 options on it, not even a power trunk release. Where as a Vette pretty much comes fully loaded at 3200. The most common birds and Camaros, were loaded which drove up the price of the car but the stripper cars like my former bird existed. And those were the ones that if you're really after performance you'd be looking for if you didn't have a vette budget out of the gate.

They did. At least Ford had the sense to not make all the plastics a single cheap shiny black color. My buddy's stang had a tan and black interior, with a faux leather on the center of the dash. My Bird, my mom's camaro on the other hand had that very cheap looking shiny black vinyl over hard plastic.

Yeah I haven't seen a 3LT. Just the 1LTs. And at nearly 50 grand on average it shouldn't matter which LT is on a vette. I shouldn't take one look at the interior and say Cheap. The thought shouldn't have -ever- crossed one's mind, when the C5 was new let alone the C6. Which damaged the car's image in the higher end buyer's market. If you take a look at a given car how often do you go back to that dealer a few years down the road while that car's model style is still in production to see if they've possibly upgraded the interior of all things? Especially if you already bought say a Porsche, or a BMW instead?

The Performance caddy's are not cheap cars. They aren't even existent in the sub 35k range.

And I am specifically referring to Chevy. Their brand is that of a Fogey Brand. That's the kind of car Chevy, or Gm has to make again, is a high performance sub 35 grand car. It's an easy enough recipe. Heck just slapping a V8 into something with relatively little options for the budget racer would help things tremendously.

Hell I'll settle for a Turbo Six.
I'm loyal to the brand because I grew up around the last of the breed of GM's middle class sports cars. I got to see, and drive some of the best cars GM has ever made, before getting my Vette. (First car was an 85 Camaro, second 86. Third was the Bird. Learned to drive on my mom's 98 Camaro, now I have a C4. I like everything on the C7 but That *** and I don't mean the tail lights. I mean that travesty of a lower bumper. In the next few years I'll be getting a C7. Probably a C7 Z51, or maybe a GS if they offer it with Gills) Alot of guys though, particularly the just now turning 20-25 year olds haven't had that experience though. I kinda hit the cut off mark

The C7 is a great start (the only reason I haven't gotten a C6, is because I'm getting close to the point I can finally afford a New Vette and I knew the C7 was coming anyway). I'm still undecided, because I like doing mods to cars. And because the C7 while killer in styling.. I could get a C5 or C6 much cheaper. I'd have to once again have to suffer the horrible factory interiors though, in the name of performance unless I went C7.

Pinky...

^^^ DS Vettes is your friend.

Tommy D

OMG nine pages ……. We all purchase cars for different reasonsand that is a very big problem for GM. It is looking to expand its “niche”market that is mostly comprised of older individuals. The problem as I see it is how to maintain itscurrent market while expanding its market share to include more youngerindividuals. That is the problem, changing that demographic will be a dauntingtask.

GM has no idea how to get the younger individuals whopurchase foreign cars to purchase Corvettes. If any of you read the post by aCF member (GM employee) who knew about the “Focus Group” that GM utilized tohelp with the C7 you would understand my statement.

How do you market to younger individuals if you have no ideawhy they purchase the cars that they drive? Another intriguing question would be what does Corvette have to be inorder for you (young foreign car owner) to purchase a Corvette? Knowing theanswers to those two key questions GM could develop and implement a targetedmarketing plan.

With regard to the remaking of Cadillac, besides greatdesign you have very aggressive pricing. Last year you could get a lease deal on CTS for $238.00 a month. There is usually a deal onone of their vehicles to entice buyers and Cadillac increased its market shareby 1.6% or so for 2011. I do not see aggressive pricing of theCorvette as an option as GM is looking to upscale it in an effort to appeal tothe younger individuals.

Making Corvette a brand is financial suicide for theCorvette. Knowing the track record of GM this may not end well for teamCorvette which would be a shame as the C7 looks to be a great car.

Visionairy

Maybe it's just because I live near Detroit, but I get cars full of 18 year old girls screaming out their car windows chasing my 30 year old *** around town in my black C6...they never did that in my camaro's or t/a's! Old man car my foot, my 20-25-30 y/o friends love it. For the record people love when you share the fun, I let EVERYONE drive mine, just like I always said I would once I finally got one. Nothing better than the smile on someones face when you toss them the keys! Cost me $600 when one guy left my parking brake on and burned it out, but hey...honest mistake right? One last point, everyone I know over 25 is married w/kids etc and that car could be $15k and they'd never buy a 2-seater. Ahhhh, the joys of being single and childless

LS1LT1

True LOL.
LOVE being single with no need for back seats.