K-Spaz

or if they did, I have not seen it.

It just got me to thinking, ya know, with as fast as these cars are, they're getting to the point where you can't track em without a cage. Run a little too fast, and they pull the plug on ya. It doesn't take many mods to get em there.

Well, wouldn't it be nice if they'd given some thought to that and made a nicely designed in factory offering? I wonder how many folks out there would bite on them? I bet quite a few, especially if it could be done in such a way that it looked like it was supposed to be there.

Just thinking too much here

1KULC7

Already a discussion going on about this look for Convertible posts and you will find several.

The Dizzy Vizzy

Hello, (new here folks) but, we ARE talking about the convertible, and NOT the Coupe, which OBVIOUSLY has a roll bar. You're right (if I'm wrong, lol), there SHOULD be a roll bar, but you know what? I'm betting that they've thought of EVERYTHING. Granted, this car is 3 days old out of the barn. Let's give it a bit more time to "flesh itself out" before we make a critical judgment (and you're right, the convertible SHOULD have a rolly-polly), but we've JUST ONLY seen the Coupe.

Baby steps Spaz, baby steps.

4GS7

That's a fine and dandy idea until someone smacks their head on the roll bar and sues GM.

Snorman

If you are talking about drag racing, NHRA dropped the requirement for a 5-point bar from 11.49 to 9.99 effective Jan 1, 2013. It must be an "unmodified" car that is 2008 or newer.
If you're talking road course, those requirements are variable.
S.

snide

In the C5 and the C6, the windshield frame is the rollbar.

K-Spaz

Ahhh, that's exactly what I was talking about. I wasn't aware it was dropping to 9.90's.

"Unmodified"... Hmm. Sounds ambiguous...

And yes, I was talking about the verts. Are there people who own hardtop Vettes? I thought they did away with them in the 50's

Snorman

lol...exactly.
This is from Bob Blackwell, NHRA Division Tech Director...
The amended rule is located on page xiv, paragraph 5 of the NHRA tech handbook.
S.

HOXXOH

Wow! Only a few posts and already mis-information.

If the reason for needing a rollbar is for HPDE or auto-x, each organization within that type of racing has their own specific rules. If it's for drag racing it becomes different again.

I'm very familiar with the NHRA rule and specs. The latest deviation for cars running in the AAA Street Legal catagory allows '08-up unaltered cars to bypass the Summit Series requirements, when running slower than 9.99 and/or 135 MPH, except for verts and T-tops. IHRA has no such exception. And of course, tracks tied to neither organization set their own rules.

The rule was written by their lawyers, but NHRA has not yet defined "unaltered". Until there is a clear definition (and it's doubful that'll happen) the interpretation has been left to the individual track and tech crew.

The NHRA/IHRA rules are very specific regarding rollbars, which are not the same as roll cages. The uneducated interchange the terms as if they were identical. A cage, as the name implies, surrounds the driver on all sides, must be certified by an NHRA/IHRA tech representative, and is required for all cars running 9.99 and quicker. A rollbar consists of the most elementary features of a cage, such as a main hoop above/behind the driver's helmet, back braces, and a side door bar. Rollbars are required when running between 9.99 and 11.49 and slower than 135 MPH.

Now that you know what a rollbar is, you still need to know the rules for construction and installation. Without getting into specifics, there is no current manufacturer that makes a rollbar for the C6 generation that conforms to the rules. From the chassis drawings I've seen, the C7 will continue to present even more difficulties.

Special note to irvbulldogs72: It's impossible to hit your head on a properly designed rollbar in the seated position.

1KULC7

I certainly would not depend upon the front windscreen frame of a C5 or C6 to protect me on a roll over, you kidding me?

You got some serious misinformation here, who or where did you learn about this?

This is not even a convertible...fatal driver



This was a GS Convertible, fatal both driver and passenger

talon90

Independant of the photos that you chose, he is correct. The windshield frame is designed to provide rollover / crush protection. It isn't a roll bar but it does pass Federal standards in the convertible and convertibles are not even required to pass the standard tests.

If you are up for the long read, here is the Federal Standard:

http://cryptome.org/0001/nhtsa051209.htm

Here is the quote from a Motortrend article:

The aluminum door-pillar and windshield surround structure is redesigned to use more extrusions and fewer castings for improved dimensional accuracy and rigidity. In fact, this structure is so rigid that the C6 roadster passes federal roof-crush standards (which convertibles are not even required to meet) without the use of any pop-up or freestanding hoops or rollbars. Finally, a fiberglass tub forms the trunk and bonds the bodywork to the frame rails while segregating the trunk compartment from the passenger space to reduce body shake and dramatically reduce road noise. This also secures the trunk when the top is down and the doors locked--the C5's trunk compartment is always open to the cockpit.

Here is a link to the article on Motortrends website:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...e_c6_roadster/

The quote is from the last paragraph on the first page.

Here is a photo of the A pillar extrusion in cross section as referenced in the article excerpt above.

K-Spaz

Thanks everyone for the additional inputs. Interesting stuff.

I've already resigned myself to the reality that if my Vert ever ends up on the lid, I'm toast. Sorta like those pics there. Those A pillars are never gonna hold that car up.

PhilsFRC

A lot of the Porche GT3s had an optional bolt in roll bar that was TUV (German DOT) approved-they could that. Yeah right!

1KULC7

Thank you for the information, but to me one (in this case) two pictures speaks more than any Federal Regulation. My question is this, why was I not allowed to drive my 2002 on an SCCA Sanctioned Track if the front windshield is considered safe enough? During technical inspection I was told NO GO until a proper regulation roll bar is installed. I never really bothered as I had no intention or racing just wanted to go one or couple day to Friday at the Track. It just was not one track but several tracks DO NOT allow convertibles without roll bars to participate on track event days. So if the Chevy solution is so stable, then why was I refused to put my car on the track, because it does not work.

Don't want to start an argument, but I have seen many more than just these two flips, many more, to know the Windscreen frame may work in some cases, but I certainly would feel much more secure with a better piece of safety equipment on the car that that solutions.

I did know about this, but what I am saying, I certainly never trusted the Windscreeen as a protective measure on a flip....would you?

Snorman

A.) Nobody mentioned roll "cages", B.) I do not believe that bolt-in roll bars will pass NHRA tech, and anybody building or modifying a car worth a sh*t wouldn't waste their money buying a bolt-in or cookie cutter bar. They would have a reputable chassis shop do it. Are you claiming that nobody can build an NHRA-legal bar or cage for a C6, or are you referring to bolt-ins?
S.

kh24

Lots of us just bolt in our bars because they are easy to do and readily available online. I've never had a problem going through tech even though its not legal. It's much more common than you think in corvettes

Snorman

I don't doubt it and I admit that's a good point. But tech when you're running a mid-high 10-second car is often lenient at lots of tracks.
When you start running single-digit passes at well over 135 mph, they look at the car...even at rentals (and I've run lots and lots of rentals at Atco and Etown).
Rhodes did one of my cages, and if I ever even put a bar in a car, I'd take it to Ron before even considering any other solution.
S.

kh24

Yeah I hear ya. I never got checked at any rentals at atco. I wanted to get a weld in bar but the wait was something like 4 months at the time from the guy over in spotswood. I just couldn't wait. Grabbed one online for $500 and within a few hours the thing was installed.

HOXXOH

A.) See post #1

B.) Nobody mentioned bolt-in rollbars in this thread until you.

Bolt-in bars on a C6 are legal, IF they are bolted to the FRAME.

I said no current manufacturer, not just simply nobody. For a time, I offered a NHRA legal, rule compliant, rollbar. Even though most racers thought it was excellent and fairly priced, they voted with their wallet to continue going to rentals or getting booted after a pass or two. If you doubt that, check the fast list (including Z06) to see how few quicker than 11.49 cars have a rollbar. Also ask if their rollbar really meets the rules. The rules require "All cars with an OEM frame must have roll bar attached to frame". It's a simple rule that none of the current manufacturers follow, regardless of their claims.

88Z51

I just checked the current NHRA on line rule book as well as the revisions section and for the life of me I cannot find this. Can you be more specific?