Weight benchmark
01-12-2013, 11:34 PM
#61
Le Mans Master
Your criticism of modern Corvettes as needlessly overweight remains unsupported by evidence.
But if you think an early car weighs 3200+ then you may as well think the world is flat.
.Jinx
01-12-2013, 11:56 PM
#62
Successful Plumber
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Those numbers are not remotely accurate. They are not required to be. The curb weight on an 84 and a 90 are almost the same. But the 90 has radically different and heavier parts, and more of them.
Furrher, curb weight on a c4 includes a jack. A spare tire. A spare tire cover. An old 48 lb battery. A lot of very heavy accessories that have no eauivalent on a c6 or 7. My point was not to debate c4 weight, though i'm the only one so far with true information: my point was that early c4's are just as light as this c7 is likely to be, despite being dinosaurs.
They also have a steel frame. An iron block and engine that weighs 115 lbs more than an ls7. Seats that weigh 45 lbs instead of 30 for a later car. An 85lb hood. Big heavy early cats and heavy exhaust. Headlight motors. A 4+3 that probably weighs as much as a t6060. Yet that car is as light as an aluminum framed, aluminim engine, cf body c6z. Which tells me the later cars are too big and have too much crap all over them.
I'm done discussing c4's on this thread. But if you think an early car weighs 3200+ then you may as well think the world is flat.
I guess no one appreciates my apology earlier, for being a little snappy earlier, but joe, come on down and bring your c6z. I'll prove my point on the scales. Then i'll pour you a good scotch.
Furrher, curb weight on a c4 includes a jack. A spare tire. A spare tire cover. An old 48 lb battery. A lot of very heavy accessories that have no eauivalent on a c6 or 7. My point was not to debate c4 weight, though i'm the only one so far with true information: my point was that early c4's are just as light as this c7 is likely to be, despite being dinosaurs.
They also have a steel frame. An iron block and engine that weighs 115 lbs more than an ls7. Seats that weigh 45 lbs instead of 30 for a later car. An 85lb hood. Big heavy early cats and heavy exhaust. Headlight motors. A 4+3 that probably weighs as much as a t6060. Yet that car is as light as an aluminum framed, aluminim engine, cf body c6z. Which tells me the later cars are too big and have too much crap all over them.
I'm done discussing c4's on this thread. But if you think an early car weighs 3200+ then you may as well think the world is flat.
I guess no one appreciates my apology earlier, for being a little snappy earlier, but joe, come on down and bring your c6z. I'll prove my point on the scales. Then i'll pour you a good scotch.
The weight is used for tire certification, for EPA classifications and in some states for tax and licensing purposes.
01-13-2013, 12:06 AM
#63
Newer cars also have more body rigidity, wider thread, larger brakes, better aero, more power and therefore larger supporting parts like diff, axles, transmissions, clutch and so on. Lastly, they don't break down as much and offer more amenities.
I don't see how you can call the difference in weight "crap". Actually point to the things that you feel are crap and add significant body weight.
I don't see how you can call the difference in weight "crap". Actually point to the things that you feel are crap and add significant body weight.
The crap includes bumpers standards, air bags all over, the bcm and everything associated with it. Which is roughly 200 pages of the shop manual. With tons of crap like Automatic mirrors, memory seats, sensing lights and climate, ahs, etc., Even Power seats. Does a sports car really need that? I realize some people sort of like that but option it.
01-13-2013, 12:11 AM
#65
They are absolutely required and required to be accurate. Every car sold in the US has a federally mandated Tire and Vehicle Loading plate (now a sticker) on the door edge.
The weight is used for tire certification, for EPA classifications and in some states for tax and licensing purposes.
The weight is used for tire certification, for EPA classifications and in some states for tax and licensing purposes.
01-13-2013, 12:15 AM
#68
Burning Brakes
Regardless, the bench mark for weight for me has been the C5Z. From 2001-2013 the C5Z has been the lightest corvette bar none from GM. If the new C7 comes any where close to that or lighter with todays standards it will be a good thing. 
01-13-2013, 12:16 AM
#69
01-13-2013, 12:33 AM
#70
Agreed. C5z is the best vette made yet. But the looks and interior were not my favorite. And you need a lift to really work on one. Hopefully the c7 will handle as well. Ls7 was a beautiful motor. Lt1 should be great too. We'll see.
01-13-2013, 05:48 AM
#71
Race Director
I believe the sketch we saw with the front brake ducts showed how serious GM is on producing a light weight c7.
Dealer installed brake ducts?
GM didn't want the weight on the track pak car from the factory to advertise 2999 lb curb weight.....(under 3000 lbs)
Dealer installed brake ducts?
GM didn't want the weight on the track pak car from the factory to advertise 2999 lb curb weight.....(under 3000 lbs)
01-13-2013, 06:20 AM
#72
Team Owner
The various 6 speed manuals are all pretty close in weight, the 6 speed automatic does weigh a bit more than the 4 speed autos in the C4s/C5s/2005 C6s though. And then of course there were those early C4 4+3 manual transmissions.
01-13-2013, 09:40 AM
#73
Melting Slicks
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does not help if you are in a 5000 pounds car vs. a 3200 pound car, its all in the design how it absorb the impact
So i take a proper designet 2900 pound Corvette over my 3175 C6Z any day
regards
Rune
01-13-2013, 10:28 AM
#74
Team Owner
If GM lied about the curb weight on the 1984 when they said it was 3192# when it was really under 3000# according to Ramey(LOL), then GM must also be lying about the curb weight on a C6 Z06 and it really weighs 2800#(LOL). That just defies all reasonable thinking as GM wants to be able to say it's high performance sports car is light, so why would they lie and say it's heavier then it really is?
In fact, my 56 is so light, that I have the neighbor's ten year daughter, lift it up so I can change a tire(LOL). GM was lying about it weighing 2875#(LOL). And the only lightweight aluminum pieces in my 56 are the eight pistons and the two tapered shims located between the front cross member and the frame rails to increase caster.
I know that GM was lying when they said my 98 C coupe weighed 3245#. That's only 5# lighter then Mercedes says my 99 Mercedes 4-door sedan weighs. Is Mercedes also lying? Let's see, GM also lied about the 87 C4 coupe weighing 3325. That's heavier then a Mercedes. No way.
Point is, cars do weigh different amounts and the manufacturers do not lie about the curb weights. While my C6 Z06 has bunch of stuff, most mandated by law, that has increased weight over the years, it is still lighter then a C4(and faster).
In fact, my 56 is so light, that I have the neighbor's ten year daughter, lift it up so I can change a tire(LOL). GM was lying about it weighing 2875#(LOL). And the only lightweight aluminum pieces in my 56 are the eight pistons and the two tapered shims located between the front cross member and the frame rails to increase caster.
I know that GM was lying when they said my 98 C coupe weighed 3245#. That's only 5# lighter then Mercedes says my 99 Mercedes 4-door sedan weighs. Is Mercedes also lying? Let's see, GM also lied about the 87 C4 coupe weighing 3325. That's heavier then a Mercedes. No way.
Point is, cars do weigh different amounts and the manufacturers do not lie about the curb weights. While my C6 Z06 has bunch of stuff, most mandated by law, that has increased weight over the years, it is still lighter then a C4(and faster).
01-13-2013, 12:41 PM
#75
Ok joe. I owned a c3. 4 c4's. a c5z. A c6z. All were on multiple sets of race scales at scca national events, and subject to scrutiny by real competitors. But you know better because you read a magainze that did not weigh the car and on the internet from sources that did not weigh the car, including an estimated model curb weight rating for *government*!?!?
Now that's a hilarious display of wisdom worth a hearty LOL.
Now that's a hilarious display of wisdom worth a hearty LOL.
01-14-2013, 02:49 AM
#76
Today has been interesting. I actually like the c7 if i were in the market for a luxo cruiser. But people are talking 3300 pounds and almost 107 inch wheelbase, with a 74 inch wide body. That is almost the size of a 4 door malibu a while back. I think it may still come in lighter than that, but lol, this hi tech beast is still dragging anchors.
Another funny thing to conclude this thread - my corvette spec book shows the curb weight of the 84 - with almost 130 pounds of gas,
A jack, a spare tire, and a completely cast iron motor with a fiberglass body a quarter inch thick and 26lb wheels, as 3152. Now that's funny. I guess the books arent that far off after all if you know where to look. Its got a smog pump. An egr system. Mechanical cruise control. A 35 pound old starter. Of course steel frame and heavy seats. Pop up lights.
Put a modern battery and wheels, take out the spare and jack, and with a few gallons of gas, that car is 2940 apples to apples. Put an lt1 in it and its 2800! What the hell is gm packing into the c7 to find 500 pounds of useless aluminum and cf? I just dont get it.
.
Another funny thing to conclude this thread - my corvette spec book shows the curb weight of the 84 - with almost 130 pounds of gas,
A jack, a spare tire, and a completely cast iron motor with a fiberglass body a quarter inch thick and 26lb wheels, as 3152. Now that's funny. I guess the books arent that far off after all if you know where to look. Its got a smog pump. An egr system. Mechanical cruise control. A 35 pound old starter. Of course steel frame and heavy seats. Pop up lights.
Put a modern battery and wheels, take out the spare and jack, and with a few gallons of gas, that car is 2940 apples to apples. Put an lt1 in it and its 2800! What the hell is gm packing into the c7 to find 500 pounds of useless aluminum and cf? I just dont get it.
.
01-14-2013, 03:13 AM
#77
Le Mans Master
I just don't get how you can not get it. Drive over diagonal railroad tracks some time. Look at a 30mph crash some time. Or a rollover. Maybe actually read a book. Until then there is no helping you.
01-14-2013, 03:34 AM
#78
Safety Car
I appreciate the power as much as anyone... But the powerplant is much lighter than the old small block. The new trans and diff are not any heavier either. I appreciate more tread. But the newer wheels are lighter despite their size. Starting to see my point? None of the improvements add weight. They reduce it. Yet the car is not getting lighter.
The crap includes bumpers standards, air bags all over, the bcm and everything associated with it. Which is roughly 200 pages of the shop manual. With tons of crap like Automatic mirrors, memory seats, sensing lights and climate, ahs, etc., Even Power seats. Does a sports car really need that? I realize some people sort of like that but option it.
The crap includes bumpers standards, air bags all over, the bcm and everything associated with it. Which is roughly 200 pages of the shop manual. With tons of crap like Automatic mirrors, memory seats, sensing lights and climate, ahs, etc., Even Power seats. Does a sports car really need that? I realize some people sort of like that but option it.
I would also be down for a "light weight" base model where they would get rid of power seats and things. Unfortunately, that's not how GM's business model works. I think they try to provide the most car for $50k. They will add some of these amenities simply because they are low cost and high return or other competitors offer them as base.
01-14-2013, 03:55 AM
#79
That is the problem.
PS, I've seen all manner of c4's rolled and wrecked. they actually hold up extremely well. i don't know why, they are barely held together to start with. maybe its' that whole 'flexible baby' thing.
01-14-2013, 03:59 AM
#80
cooling ducts and oiling system i bet don't aggregate to 20 pounds, total. the starter in the c7 alone is more than 20 pounds lighter than the c4.