C7 on E85 faster than C6ZO6
12-15-2012, 04:15 AM
#181
Yes, GM is making the reveal of the C7 very dramatic. I don't know any manufacturer that releases the new model over a 1/2 year span with want-to-be-leaked pics. The C7 in Gran Turismo. They release teaser vids. Is it really that hard to believe that post LT1 reveal they release drops of info further right where enthusiasts meet?
Controlling the expectations of their costumer base is not a waste of time.
There are many details about the LT1 that were left hidden at the LT1 preview.
It's just advertising mate. Me thinks you are getting a bit irritated with their methodologies.
Controlling the expectations of their costumer base is not a waste of time.
There are many details about the LT1 that were left hidden at the LT1 preview.
It's just advertising mate. Me thinks you are getting a bit irritated with their methodologies.
I just don't buy into an authorized engineer named Bigg Gunz to represent the Gen V SBC on behalf of GM to enthusiasts. There have been other opportunities and more official methods, it makes little sense for this to be the approach GM takes.
There are so many holes in his story it doesn't make sense. Even the simplest question - Why can't this person reveal his location and name? Clearly he wouldn't be in trouble if this whole operation was OK'd by higher ups.
GM had 4 slides talking about the LT1 lubrication system, yet had zero references to E85 in the whole 50+ page slide deck. You figure if they were able to coax 10% more power output (as claimed by Big Gunz) you wouldn't think they'd mentioned E85 or FlexFuel capabilities somewhere at least once? Com'on, think about it. That was their opportunity to show case the future of SBCs and the Gen V to the automotive press and the world, not to hide this stuff and just reveal it on an internet forum through Bigg Gunz.
Last edited by Jawnathin; 12-15-2012 at 04:24 AM.
12-15-2012, 04:32 AM
#182
Safety Car
The context was:
the v6 is defying physics
a comparison was made with a DOHC turbo engine
I'm not sure why my DOHC non-turbo comparison in the context of what is physically done out there in the internal combustion engine world was so out of the ordinary.
However, so be it. Let's look at a modern pushrod, the Viper V10:
640/8.4~76hp/L, or 5hp/L short of the 81hp/L Bigg_Gunz claims.
5hp/76~6.6%. You really don't think direct injection can gain a measly 6.6%???
Looking at the list of E85 flex fuel vehicles made by GM compared to the rest of the world, is it hard to believe the "Vette will have this feature? Half of the list is GM!!
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byfuel/FFV2012.shtml
the v6 is defying physics
a comparison was made with a DOHC turbo engine
I'm not sure why my DOHC non-turbo comparison in the context of what is physically done out there in the internal combustion engine world was so out of the ordinary.
However, so be it. Let's look at a modern pushrod, the Viper V10:
640/8.4~76hp/L, or 5hp/L short of the 81hp/L Bigg_Gunz claims.
5hp/76~6.6%. You really don't think direct injection can gain a measly 6.6%???
Looking at the list of E85 flex fuel vehicles made by GM compared to the rest of the world, is it hard to believe the "Vette will have this feature? Half of the list is GM!!
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byfuel/FFV2012.shtml
12-15-2012, 04:45 AM
#183
Safety Car
It's pretty clear to me that some folks are not ready to see the new kid on the block doing new kid sort of performance.
I would be more surprised if the new gen motors did not make more power despite all the arsenal of technology injected than say...if they made the same power as the old ones. C'mon, be real, the latest LS3s do 450hp at the crank!!
12-15-2012, 05:09 AM
#184
Wow, way to be a smart *** taking everything out of context and ignoring anything worth discussing or relevant. You aren't worth the time.
Keep on dreaming and believing in your internet hero.
Keep on dreaming and believing in your internet hero.
12-15-2012, 07:51 AM
#186
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I don't think thats what anyone is saying. There is clearly going to be an advancement of technology and the ability to do more with less. The Gen V will no doubt be more efficient than the Gen IV blocks. However, this Gen V block can't defy physics.
Lets put some of his claims into perspective. Based on the LS1 claim, the 4.3L is expected to do over/around 350hp. Yet the DOHC 4 Valve Twin Turbo 3.5L V6 w/ Direct Injection and VCT from Ford does 365hp. Sure theres .8L of displacement difference, but no way does DOHC, 2 extra valves per cylinder, and two turbochargers only net 15 more hp.
Comparing the LT1 to the LS7, you're taking away 500rpm and over 10% displacement. I do think 450hp was a little conservative, but 500+hp seems like a stretch. Somewhere in the middle seems about right and a nice healthy 40-50hp bump over the LS3.
I really want the C7 to succeed. It doesn't matter how it compares to my own car. My current car won't be any faster or slower with the debut of the C7. I want the Corvette to continue the tradition of delivering world class performance at enthusiast prices. There could be one in my garage down the line.
However, I am not going to put blind faith into the speculation and hype generated by an anonymous forum poster with so many holes in his story it could sink a ship.
I look forward to the C7 but I take everything Bigg Gunz says with a grain of salt.
Lets put some of his claims into perspective. Based on the LS1 claim, the 4.3L is expected to do over/around 350hp. Yet the DOHC 4 Valve Twin Turbo 3.5L V6 w/ Direct Injection and VCT from Ford does 365hp. Sure theres .8L of displacement difference, but no way does DOHC, 2 extra valves per cylinder, and two turbochargers only net 15 more hp.
Comparing the LT1 to the LS7, you're taking away 500rpm and over 10% displacement. I do think 450hp was a little conservative, but 500+hp seems like a stretch. Somewhere in the middle seems about right and a nice healthy 40-50hp bump over the LS3.
I really want the C7 to succeed. It doesn't matter how it compares to my own car. My current car won't be any faster or slower with the debut of the C7. I want the Corvette to continue the tradition of delivering world class performance at enthusiast prices. There could be one in my garage down the line.
However, I am not going to put blind faith into the speculation and hype generated by an anonymous forum poster with so many holes in his story it could sink a ship.
I look forward to the C7 but I take everything Bigg Gunz says with a grain of salt.
12-15-2012, 10:09 AM
#187
Melting Slicks
No I'm just going off of what I have seen by spy shots (c6 size tires),common sense based on the features of the c7 (removable top necessitates heavier frame than a solid roof), and GM saying the lt1 has 450hp lol. You guys are the ones in fantasy land.
12-15-2012, 11:13 AM
#188
Le Mans Master
Lets go back to late 2005 when the C6Z was introduced. 3100lbs, 505hp, 427 cubic inches, 200mph top speed, aluminum frame.. and all for a $65,000 price tag.
Wasnt that an amazing magic trick when it happened?
What make you think 7-8 years later magic cannot come again. Do you really think major, game-changing advancements in performance by GM engineers stopped with the C6Z announcement almost a decade ago? Doesnt GM already sell a 580hp Camaro for $55,000? Is a 500hp base Corvette with a $50K pricetag really even magic at this point? Or is it more like progress?
Wasnt that an amazing magic trick when it happened?
What make you think 7-8 years later magic cannot come again. Do you really think major, game-changing advancements in performance by GM engineers stopped with the C6Z announcement almost a decade ago? Doesnt GM already sell a 580hp Camaro for $55,000? Is a 500hp base Corvette with a $50K pricetag really even magic at this point? Or is it more like progress?
No, what would be a magic trick is to have a car with less power and the same or, likely, more weight outperform a lighter car that has more power.
12-15-2012, 11:25 AM
#189
Le Mans Master
Fixed :P
It's pretty clear to me that some folks are not ready to see the new kid on the block doing new kid sort of performance.
I would be more surprised if the new gen motors did not make more power despite all the arsenal of technology injected than say...if they made the same power as the old ones. C'mon, be real, the latest LS3s do 450hp at the crank!!
It's pretty clear to me that some folks are not ready to see the new kid on the block doing new kid sort of performance.
I would be more surprised if the new gen motors did not make more power despite all the arsenal of technology injected than say...if they made the same power as the old ones. C'mon, be real, the latest LS3s do 450hp at the crank!!
12-15-2012, 12:08 PM
#190
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
On the other hand if he is not either running a scam or ignorant of the truth (since both scenarios are being suggested here by C6ZO6 fans), the C7 introduction will at the very least be history repeating itself such as when the C6 coupe was first introduced and compared against the C5ZO6.
That would be a minimum, however if what he says is true then the C7 base coupe with "base performance options" will outperform a stock C6ZO6
Personally speaking I believe he is both truthful and has a significant amount of knowledge.
It would be nice if he would make an appearance here. I am not a member if ls1tech and do not have the time to join another forum, However, if someone here would send him an invite and opportunity to explain himself while educating a few people here, maybe he will show up
12-15-2012, 01:33 PM
#191
Burning Brakes
I'm just wondering what Bigg Gunz's exit strategy is.
Okay, he trolled the Corvette world for a month or so, had them all eating everything he made up.
What's the follow up? How is this funny after 1/13/13 beyond the credulity of Corvette folks?
Okay, he trolled the Corvette world for a month or so, had them all eating everything he made up.
What's the follow up? How is this funny after 1/13/13 beyond the credulity of Corvette folks?
12-15-2012, 01:36 PM
#192
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Do not think that has gone unnoticed. There have been several instances where he's been wrong concerning questions of prior LS development. I think those questions were poised as a s**t test, but the BS flag hasn't been raised on him so much (since earlier pages) because some details are strongly evident that he is an insider. You're right, his story does not make sense. He states in some portions that he can't blow his cover as a mole. While at the same time, he says he's writing up reports and going back and forth about what can be leaked, where some of the information he's provided has been outright dubious. IMO, he's not an official rep, but someone with limited inside information that he's using to feed his ego. The people over on tech know their s**t, but whatever information he does have, they want it.
Last edited by gs_M6; 12-15-2012 at 01:44 PM.
12-15-2012, 01:43 PM
#193
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GM had 4 slides talking about the LT1 lubrication system, yet had zero references to E85 in the whole 50+ page slide deck. You figure if they were able to coax 10% more power output (as claimed by Big Gunz) you wouldn't think they'd mentioned E85 or FlexFuel capabilities somewhere at least once? Com'on, think about it. That was their opportunity to show case the future of SBCs and the Gen V to the automotive press and the world, not to hide this stuff and just reveal it on an internet forum through Bigg Gunz.
12-15-2012, 01:54 PM
#194
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Haha man there is going to be some very disappointed people in here soon.
This thread keeps on giving. A mythical feather light aluminum chassis that also offers a removable top (lol), e85 offering mythical and unadvertised power gains (lol), and the incredibly aerodynamic small width wheels and tires allowing for superior acceleration (lolololol).
This thread keeps on giving. A mythical feather light aluminum chassis that also offers a removable top (lol), e85 offering mythical and unadvertised power gains (lol), and the incredibly aerodynamic small width wheels and tires allowing for superior acceleration (lolololol).
12-15-2012, 02:00 PM
#195
Melting Slicks
If the person "Big Gunz" over at ls1tech is nothing but a scam then by all appearances the C6ZO6 will performance wise dominate the C7 base coupe even when equipped "performance options" such as for example dry sump oiling.
On the other hand if he is not either running a scam or ignorant of the truth (since both scenarios are being suggested here by C6ZO6 fans), the C7 introduction will at the very least be history repeating itself such as when the C6 coupe was first introduced and compared against the C5ZO6.
That would be a minimum, however if what he says is true then the C7 base coupe with "base performance options" will outperform a stock C6ZO6
Personally speaking I believe he is both truthful and has a significant amount of knowledge.
It would be nice if he would make an appearance here. I am not a member if ls1tech and do not have the time to join another forum, However, if someone here would send him an invite and opportunity to explain himself while educating a few people here, maybe he will show up
On the other hand if he is not either running a scam or ignorant of the truth (since both scenarios are being suggested here by C6ZO6 fans), the C7 introduction will at the very least be history repeating itself such as when the C6 coupe was first introduced and compared against the C5ZO6.
That would be a minimum, however if what he says is true then the C7 base coupe with "base performance options" will outperform a stock C6ZO6
Personally speaking I believe he is both truthful and has a significant amount of knowledge.
It would be nice if he would make an appearance here. I am not a member if ls1tech and do not have the time to join another forum, However, if someone here would send him an invite and opportunity to explain himself while educating a few people here, maybe he will show up
12-15-2012, 02:10 PM
#196
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I don't think anyone is offended at this wild speculation that the C7 is faster than a C6 Z06. It's just we don't see any evidence that would lend some credibility to these claims.
I'm sure if it makes more than 450hp, GM will market that claim of higher HP and not hide it. "And with the C7's new LT1, increases of up to 80hp is just a tank full of environmentally friendly E85 fuel away!" "Surpasses the prior generation Z06 in performance!!
I'm sure if it makes more than 450hp, GM will market that claim of higher HP and not hide it. "And with the C7's new LT1, increases of up to 80hp is just a tank full of environmentally friendly E85 fuel away!" "Surpasses the prior generation Z06 in performance!!
12-15-2012, 02:18 PM
#197
Le Mans Master
Idk or really care about big gunz exit strategy. He most likely is someone with just enough info to draw wrong conclusions. He doesn't have to be a troll but he is incorrect on many things and I believe he is wrong about the c7 in general. Either that or GM is going to blow the doors off in a few weeks.
12-15-2012, 02:22 PM
#198
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12-15-2012, 03:00 PM
#199
Safety Car
Yeah, he talks about the LT gen 5 in general for the most part. His claims could be about either one. When he said E85 yield 40-80hp he could have meant N/A vs FI. He could have also meant at some point on the curve not necessarily peak.
12-15-2012, 04:23 PM
#200
Race Director
I want to like the C7 too. Power would definitely help that out. Especially because that will make it easier to get that Camaro lookin' rear end out of sight of the people behind you 