SBC_and_a_stick

Hilarious! However, my turbo encabulator exists, and if you go back to post 5 I was not the one saying it does not encabulate.

It all boils down to average OEM<C6 Bose OEM<some other things (but likely not JL Audio).

Is there even a chance anybody at GM is watching this thread? Because if they are I'm willing to jot down some ideas for a premium setup.

Balthazar_B

Note I said "seriously"...

SCM_Crash

I'm definitely not an audiophile. I actually don't think there's anything wrong with the stock sound system in my C5Z. In fact, the only thing it really needed was better radio reception, and maybe a little more bass.

But you have to keep in mind I don't turn the volume up much. I like my hearing the way it is... No need to blast it. I hate being in cars where the driver is blasting the radio.

Balthazar_B

Beyond the quality of speakers and electronics, Chevy also needs to work with some audio engineers who can design a system with decent imaging. Some of that is dependent on what the interior gives you for speaker placement, etc., and having an audio setup to take advantage of it.

racebum

they did with bmw. basic VR series co-ax's went in, spend a little time with a spectrum analyzer and actually design correct crossovers for the interior of the car. single 8" sub in half a cubic foot and you would have a rocking system

their stuff is outgunned by better products and no one has made an amp that rivals a phoenix gold ZPA, that said, for high production GM would have a breeze using a simple JL setup similar to what BMW did.

you get the JL branding which is a sales point and those coaxes are what? 75 a pair on ebay, add 4 of those and a 100 dollar 8w3v3, 5 channel amp, figure in the GM discount and you're spending a few hundred dollars for a nice system

rcallen484

In the first year of the C4 back in 1984, Chevy made a big deal out of the fact that Bose had designed a system specifically suited to the accoustic environment of the new Corvette. Have they not attempted to continue to do so?

SCM_Crash

You're not saying that you'd want them to change the shape of the interior to suit the needs of better audio, are you?

SBC_and_a_stick

VR series 6.5" is totally inferior to the Bose 10"s for the entire bandwidth the 10" is covering. See my post about 3rd party testing on the Bose, the JL is has a linear output disadvantage of at least 3x. In reality it's more like 5x less linear output. JL's top of the line was Vifa made at some point and even those did not have the throw of the Bose, and still 1/3 of the surface area. The JL is also deeper which often matters for clearance. Going into the midrange note the Bose mid at the top of the door lifts the soundstage higher up and also has better distortion properties mid-band and better dispersion matching characteristics at the crossover point. Higher up it's true that Bose sort of dropped the ball with no tweeter, even a 1/2" would do with that midrange. But at least it's higher up, with the coax the tweeter is at your feet.

8" sub takes up space, the Bose system is really compact and light. It's also unclear whether two Bose 10"s wouldn't whipe the floor with an 8". There are some 8's out there that can really move air but still...

There are many amplifiers that are better than the ZPA, namely equally good in output and sound quality but much higher efficiency and therefore more compact. See for example the ARC Audio KS line.

All you get is JL branding. There is nothing the VR or even higher end JL components do that a $20 Chinese speaker can't do.

RocketGuy3

That may be true for people buying a BMW or an Audi, but I think people who buy a Corvette are more interested in results than brand names...

SBC_and_a_stick

Hmm, let me think about that one. So if Corvette were to change it's crossed-flags logo for the 'vette... then nobody would actually pay attention to it...because using the new logo over the old logo wouldn't actually change anything about the car. Hmm, maybe you are right.

webdzynes

Of course any stereo is subjective and whats desired will vary completely from person to person and everyone has an opinion which is right for them. That said, I can say that for me and those people I know who might be considered audiophiles by the average person would attest that Bose is not only not high end but not even in the same league as many other prominent brands often sold at car audio shops. I cant argue technical specifics regarding them versus others but speaking solely for myself and my ears, regardless of the specs, in my opinion they would be what one might expect in a car costing substantially less.

SBC_and_a_stick

Some things, like frequency response which you can equalize to taste has a small degree of subjectivity, and maybe so does dispersion to a small extent. Even to understand what these subjective preferences are we need to approach the problem objectively. If we can get a sample of would be Corvette buyers and map these preferences for each would can compute an average and use that to satisfy the majority of buyers.

Then there is the other 90% of audio which requires virtually no human interaction:
more spl capability at every frequency
lower distortion
lower center to center spacing
A deeper, wider and ear level soundstage, etc.

Even the creation of a speaker relies very much on objective goals, for which machinery, software, and lab tests have been completed. It is very much a science.

Say audio reproduction was completely subjective, how would you even define premium? Would people think the base stereo was better with 50% probability?

webdzynes

I certainly am not one to define what would constitute a 'premium' system upgrade but in my case, I removed the Bose system and replaced the speakers with DynAudio's and put in JL amps and subs. There was such an improvement in sound quality, the difference was astounding. That's all I am suggesting here. It would be great if there were such an upgrade option using high quality components that true audiophiles could assemble which for many of us, would be a 'sound investment' worth buying.

SBC_and_a_stick

The JL amps and subs would certainly never exist in an oem application. They are simply to bulky to the average user, or even the premium speaker buyer. Then GM would say things like, is that box made out of MDF? We can't have materials that are prone to water damage nor does it meet our specifications for durability. Then they would have to worry about the box flying into the driver's head upon a collision. Some of these things you may not care about, but the average consumer cars directly and indirectly through safety and standards we have acquired through time.

With audio you must also do the prudent thing, step back, and really test whether the improvement is there or all in your head. Is the improvement across the board or only in the highs etc. A lot of the time aftermarket installs require better baffles, better insulation, and better sound treatments. Nobody really sits down to pick apart the effect of the speaker from that of the Dynamat. I can tell you for a fact Dynamat is a huge improvement with stock speakers even!

I can tell you that Dynaudio is something almost no one would pay for. Between the markup Dynaudio has and the markup GM will add people will simply be astonished at the final price. Scientifically, there are speakers in the $100-$200 range that will do what a $700 Dynaudio set does or more. OEM generally engage in good bang for the buck product, so A either a lot of people have to be willing to spend massive amount of money or B the premium components have to be very cheap for GM.

BTW, Dynaudio Esotars (top level) have a linear excursion of less than 4mm, so the Bose is better from this one point of view, plus it's 3 times larger. The best 6.5" speaker on the market has a linear excursion of ~10mm and uses better materials throughout for about 1/2 the price.

webdzynes

SBC - for reasons only you know, you seem determined to discredit anyone who subjectively dislikes Bose in favor of something else. The simple fact of the matter is I posed the question because be I the minority or otherwise, I would opt for alternatives to the Bose system and I was curious who else felt similarly. Given the posts, evidently there are. You clearly have expertise in the technical aspects of speakers, etc and thats fine. I'm sure you enjoy your Bose. But frankly, I don't care. I think they're crap and I prefer what I prefer regardless of how they may sound to you or appear on tech specs. As is obvious, it is SUBJECTIVE so why not let people like what they like without trying to prove how foolish they are for doing so.

Norcross

Thank you, web - You dont have to go far to find tons of people who hate Bose (post #2) and simply visiting other sound forums, you see the same sentiment over and over. I guess SBC figures anyone who dislikes Bose must simply be ill-informed given his need to slam the brands many recognize as good in favor of his beloved Bose. The posts and the numbers speak for themselves. I hate the Blose garbage and would readily pay for a focal, Jl Audio, DynAudio alternative - even if they are "no better than a $20 Chinese speaker..." (Thats too stupid to even put into words!)

SBC_and_a_stick

I'll come out with my reasons, they are not hidden.
1. Sound reproduction is a science not art.
2. I fundamentally think Bose has done an ok job given the constraints, and that's ultimately what matters.

I'm not a Bose buyer, I build my own systems. Ideally, if I were in charge of the stereo on this bad boy I would use a variety of OEMs , but put the GM name on it. Not one build house has the best everything nowadays. If GM only gave me the doors to play with, consider this technology Tympany has for shallow woofers:
http://soundscienceblog.com/?p=261


A 10" optimized for the door space would absolutely rock, so much so that you'll run into another problem: rattles. So how would you get rid of rattles without massloading the door with a bunch of heavy deadner? You design a speaker that won't exert a force on the door!

Enter the LAT, opposing motors that cancel mechanical vibration, yet produce a unified sound wave:


Depth? 3" total with grille and all
Price? $30x3 would fill a 10" hole
Equivalent surface area? 13" subwoofer, 7mm stroke (about the same as a standard 6.5" speaker)
Weight? 2x1.85lbs

Tweeter?
Some patents just expired on Oscar Heil's air motion transformer:


GM can have one of the Chinese factories send the 4 pieces that it takes to make this tweeter, and make the faceplate the actual pillar cover. Negligible weight, fantastic audio and will easily crossover to those LATs. I've seen them used in designs crossed over 1khz.

I gurarantee this costs much less than the Bose rights and it's clearly a step above reversing a motor. This would combine flat pistons, carbon fiber rods, neo motors, and some good ole plastic to make a light, low vibration top notch solution.

With something like this would there even be a base speaker system?

Norcross

I heard someone say once, blowhards never recognize them selves as blowhards so just politely nod, tell them to have a good day and move on. The only perspective they will ever hear is their own.

Have a good day.

SBC_and_a_stick

It's more of choosing the lesser of two evils. JL and Dynaudio continue to sell the same overhung speaker design for ridiculous $. Bose at least reversed the motor. All three are really crappy value/$. Simply put, if JL or Dyn does a better OEM job for GM then Bose it would surprise me. In reality, you pay a high price and I pay a high price for I still have to pay for the stock Bose or JL and get crap for my money. Either one of these brands offer very little improvement over a $20 Chinese speaker. I will provide you some build house information if you think I'm lying my *** off.

SBC_and_a_stick

With all do respect sir, you are the one calling people stupid and then walking away. No facts, just personal attacks. You call this a polite nod?