Caddy to build 2 seat halo car
10-09-2012, 11:41 PM
#41
Drifting
What?!?!? There was no opinion, only the fact that if it came down to an 01 cobra or 01 SS, Ford would get my money. That is a fact. How I think the car look is opinion yes, but don't countless people buy, ya know, based on their opinion of a car? Again, it is a FACT that I hate even looking at 4th gen SS's. Therefor it is a FACT that GM would not get a sale from me, cobra vs camaro regardless how much faster or slower the camaro was. It is a FACT they would get my money If
it was cobra vs camaro vs trans am.t
10-09-2012, 11:45 PM
#42
Drifting
Not only that but the firebird's return is a horrible example as they'll never make one non-Pontiac branded. Plus, they don't need to as they have dominate market share. In every way the camaro outsells the mustang and challenger combined most months.
It's all besides the point as they wouldn't make carbon copies of each other. The camaro and firebird could share engines, no biggie, but high dollar luxury car buyers usually want exclusivity. Hence the caddy version might have a turbo 6, or dohc v8. All the while not being as sporty as the vette, but a much nicer Sunday driver or drive to dinner in style car.
It's all besides the point as they wouldn't make carbon copies of each other. The camaro and firebird could share engines, no biggie, but high dollar luxury car buyers usually want exclusivity. Hence the caddy version might have a turbo 6, or dohc v8. All the while not being as sporty as the vette, but a much nicer Sunday driver or drive to dinner in style car.
10-09-2012, 11:57 PM
#43
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Not only that but the firebird's return is a horrible example as they'll never make one non-Pontiac branded. Plus, they don't need to as they have dominate market share. In every way the camaro outsells the mustang and challenger combined most months.
It's all besides the point as they wouldn't make carbon copies of each other. The camaro and firebird could share engines, no biggie, but high dollar luxury car buyers usually want exclusivity. Hence the caddy version might have a turbo 6, or dohc v8. All the while not being as sporty as the vette, but a much nicer Sunday driver or drive to dinner in style car.
It's all besides the point as they wouldn't make carbon copies of each other. The camaro and firebird could share engines, no biggie, but high dollar luxury car buyers usually want exclusivity. Hence the caddy version might have a turbo 6, or dohc v8. All the while not being as sporty as the vette, but a much nicer Sunday driver or drive to dinner in style car.
10-10-2012, 12:16 AM
#44
Drifting
I don't. I got me a "junky" c4, but it's one of about 3 for miles and miles that I've seen. It's certainly a sight simply due to rarity(except some jerk got a zr-1 this summer locally. Same white/red interior no less...). I get compliments most of the time.
But roll up to say, a casino in Atlantic city, and short of someone rolling up in an sl65 amg, a z06 is gonna get the "I couldn't sacrifice my nice seats/leather interior/air scarf(stuff like that is nuts to me but people eat it up)/multi thousand dollar sound system. He must be ok with sacrificing it all just to go faster." comments. A caddy, since the huge impact the CTSV has made, doesn't carry that stigma. No caddy 2 seater probably would. It's inevitable till the c7's interior changes that. However, the vette still carries a rawness behind it VERY few upscale cars do.
But roll up to say, a casino in Atlantic city, and short of someone rolling up in an sl65 amg, a z06 is gonna get the "I couldn't sacrifice my nice seats/leather interior/air scarf(stuff like that is nuts to me but people eat it up)/multi thousand dollar sound system. He must be ok with sacrificing it all just to go faster." comments. A caddy, since the huge impact the CTSV has made, doesn't carry that stigma. No caddy 2 seater probably would. It's inevitable till the c7's interior changes that. However, the vette still carries a rawness behind it VERY few upscale cars do.
10-10-2012, 10:12 AM
#47
If the new Shelby looks better than the ZO6, performs on par or even close, and it is $20,000 cheaper...you damn right.
It hasn't happend yet in the performance or looks department but if it ever did, I would have no problem making the transition. I love all cars that look great...not just corvette.
It hasn't happend yet in the performance or looks department but if it ever did, I would have no problem making the transition. I love all cars that look great...not just corvette.
10-10-2012, 11:29 AM
#48
Le Mans Master
A new Cadillac two-seater built on the Corvette chassis is fine -- I like niche vehicles -- but it shouldn't come at the expense of offering the more luxurious options that some high-end Corvette buyers want. This should not be a traditional Chevrolet-Cadillac dynamic, and definitely shouldn't make buyers choose between luxury/style and performance.
If XLRs had been available with Corvette engines, how many more might have been sold?
.Jinx
If XLRs had been available with Corvette engines, how many more might have been sold?
.Jinx
10-10-2012, 12:25 PM
#50
Le Mans Master
Because of their social status, some people can't arrive in a Chevrolet "sports car"; it may not be appropriate. However pulling up to the club in a Cadillac or M-B two seat "luxury roadster" is perfectly acceptable, in fact that may add to their image.
10-10-2012, 12:30 PM
#51
Drifting
Or just believe/hope it adds to their image.
10-10-2012, 12:41 PM
#52
Race Director
I don't want my car to have a "Halo"! I want it to have Devil's horns, a pitchfork, be bad-***, and go like a bat outa hell.................
10-10-2012, 12:43 PM
#53
Drifting
10-10-2012, 02:41 PM
#54
Le Mans Master
Is the image of a new Cadillac really that much better than a new Corvette?
10-10-2012, 02:54 PM
#55
Race Director
Those who are self confident - or just don't give a s**t what others think - will probably prefer the Corvette.
10-10-2012, 03:28 PM
#56
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In fact I think the Corvette has a better image than a Cadillac.I think some of these people are stuck in the 60's & 70's.
That said, cadillac is making some serious progress and once they come out with the new CTS and then the rumored halo car (S Class, Jaguar XJ rival) then they will once again be major players.
10-10-2012, 04:18 PM
#57
Drifting
I don't consider them on par in the public's eyes, not by a long shot. Corvette still has the plastic outside, plastic inside stigma... mainly because it's true. Take any person off the street, who isn't an enthusiast who checks forums daily or read the car mags each month, and take them to an auto show. Have em sit in a CTSV, a ZL1, and a Z06 Without giving them any other info. Odds are the V will get everyone's vote except those that love the cockpit feel of a two seater, which they'll probably choose to ignore things like materials and seems. Heck as much as I hate the camaro, it's interior gives the V a run for its money, minus all the retro font and horrible(to me) gauges.
Then give them the performance specs to soak in. Then tell them the price of each. From a buyer's perspective, simply looking at what you get for the money, it's incredibly hard for a non-performance enthusiast to say yes, the z06 is priced fairly. It's almost impossible. Yes the vette is faster, but it's THE definition of a sports car. Its light because of all the measures taken, but 100lbs lighter doesn't mean anything to most car buyers. It's supposed to be lighter, its only got two seats and not much to the car itself. The camaro obviously being lighter and more hp then the V means it's faster, which makes sense. Despite that, the roughly $10k difference between the V and camaro is justified as the camaro is, well, a camaro and the V is a top dog Cadillac. Plus you get more physical car for the money with the V, slightly bigger back seat, larger trunk, convenience of 2. or 4 doors or a wagon, and a nicer less racey interior.
For a lot of buyers(that is to say production numbers aside, as obviously the more limited vette will cost more simply due to production) the V and ZL1 pricing makes sense. You get a little more with the V, and the image that Cadillac seems to be working feverishly to regain as well. For what, close to 10 grand more then the V, you get a Z06, a car with two less seats, a rougher ride, and an interior that's not even comparable. For 20 grand less then a Z06, you get a car that suddenly looks like a steal, as its not on the level of a z06, but that should be expected when you spend twenty thousand less dollars. You do however get a car with 4 seats, lots of suede, and well... camaro styling for what that's worth. From a buyers perspective, you can pay 20 grand more for a 2 seat z06 that's faster... as it should be being lighter and a pure sports car.
Tell them the little fact that you can get recaros ONLY in the V and suddenly you blew their mind.
From a buyers perspective, the vette isn't NEARLY the value it used to be. Not even so much from other companies, but from internal competition.
(As icing on the cake tell them how the cobalt SS came with recaros and the vette doesn't)
Then give them the performance specs to soak in. Then tell them the price of each. From a buyer's perspective, simply looking at what you get for the money, it's incredibly hard for a non-performance enthusiast to say yes, the z06 is priced fairly. It's almost impossible. Yes the vette is faster, but it's THE definition of a sports car. Its light because of all the measures taken, but 100lbs lighter doesn't mean anything to most car buyers. It's supposed to be lighter, its only got two seats and not much to the car itself. The camaro obviously being lighter and more hp then the V means it's faster, which makes sense. Despite that, the roughly $10k difference between the V and camaro is justified as the camaro is, well, a camaro and the V is a top dog Cadillac. Plus you get more physical car for the money with the V, slightly bigger back seat, larger trunk, convenience of 2. or 4 doors or a wagon, and a nicer less racey interior.
For a lot of buyers(that is to say production numbers aside, as obviously the more limited vette will cost more simply due to production) the V and ZL1 pricing makes sense. You get a little more with the V, and the image that Cadillac seems to be working feverishly to regain as well. For what, close to 10 grand more then the V, you get a Z06, a car with two less seats, a rougher ride, and an interior that's not even comparable. For 20 grand less then a Z06, you get a car that suddenly looks like a steal, as its not on the level of a z06, but that should be expected when you spend twenty thousand less dollars. You do however get a car with 4 seats, lots of suede, and well... camaro styling for what that's worth. From a buyers perspective, you can pay 20 grand more for a 2 seat z06 that's faster... as it should be being lighter and a pure sports car.
Tell them the little fact that you can get recaros ONLY in the V and suddenly you blew their mind.
From a buyers perspective, the vette isn't NEARLY the value it used to be. Not even so much from other companies, but from internal competition.
(As icing on the cake tell them how the cobalt SS came with recaros and the vette doesn't)
10-10-2012, 05:00 PM
#58
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I don't consider them on par in the public's eyes, not by a long shot. Corvette still has the plastic outside, plastic inside stigma... mainly because it's true. Take any person off the street, who isn't an enthusiast who checks forums daily or read the car mags each month, and take them to an auto show. Have em sit in a CTSV, a ZL1, and a Z06 Without giving them any other info. Odds are the V will get everyone's vote except those that love the cockpit feel of a two seater, which they'll probably choose to ignore things like materials and seems. Heck as much as I hate the camaro, it's interior gives the V a run for its money, minus all the retro font and horrible(to me) gauges.
Then give them the performance specs to soak in. Then tell them the price of each. From a buyer's perspective, simply looking at what you get for the money, it's incredibly hard for a non-performance enthusiast to say yes, the z06 is priced fairly. It's almost impossible. Yes the vette is faster, but it's THE definition of a sports car. Its light because of all the measures taken, but 100lbs lighter doesn't mean anything to most car buyers. It's supposed to be lighter, its only got two seats and not much to the car itself. The camaro obviously being lighter and more hp then the V means it's faster, which makes sense. Despite that, the roughly $10k difference between the V and camaro is justified as the camaro is, well, a camaro and the V is a top dog Cadillac. Plus you get more physical car for the money with the V, slightly bigger back seat, larger trunk, convenience of 2. or 4 doors or a wagon, and a nicer less racey interior.
For a lot of buyers(that is to say production numbers aside, as obviously the more limited vette will cost more simply due to production) the V and ZL1 pricing makes sense. You get a little more with the V, and the image that Cadillac seems to be working feverishly to regain as well. For what, close to 10 grand more then the V, you get a Z06, a car with two less seats, a rougher ride, and an interior that's not even comparable. For 20 grand less then a Z06, you get a car that suddenly looks like a steal, as its not on the level of a z06, but that should be expected when you spend twenty thousand less dollars. You do however get a car with 4 seats, lots of suede, and well... camaro styling for what that's worth. From a buyers perspective, you can pay 20 grand more for a 2 seat z06 that's faster... as it should be being lighter and a pure sports car.
Tell them the little fact that you can get recaros ONLY in the V and suddenly you blew their mind.
From a buyers perspective, the vette isn't NEARLY the value it used to be. Not even so much from other companies, but from internal competition.
(As icing on the cake tell them how the cobalt SS came with recaros and the vette doesn't)
Then give them the performance specs to soak in. Then tell them the price of each. From a buyer's perspective, simply looking at what you get for the money, it's incredibly hard for a non-performance enthusiast to say yes, the z06 is priced fairly. It's almost impossible. Yes the vette is faster, but it's THE definition of a sports car. Its light because of all the measures taken, but 100lbs lighter doesn't mean anything to most car buyers. It's supposed to be lighter, its only got two seats and not much to the car itself. The camaro obviously being lighter and more hp then the V means it's faster, which makes sense. Despite that, the roughly $10k difference between the V and camaro is justified as the camaro is, well, a camaro and the V is a top dog Cadillac. Plus you get more physical car for the money with the V, slightly bigger back seat, larger trunk, convenience of 2. or 4 doors or a wagon, and a nicer less racey interior.
For a lot of buyers(that is to say production numbers aside, as obviously the more limited vette will cost more simply due to production) the V and ZL1 pricing makes sense. You get a little more with the V, and the image that Cadillac seems to be working feverishly to regain as well. For what, close to 10 grand more then the V, you get a Z06, a car with two less seats, a rougher ride, and an interior that's not even comparable. For 20 grand less then a Z06, you get a car that suddenly looks like a steal, as its not on the level of a z06, but that should be expected when you spend twenty thousand less dollars. You do however get a car with 4 seats, lots of suede, and well... camaro styling for what that's worth. From a buyers perspective, you can pay 20 grand more for a 2 seat z06 that's faster... as it should be being lighter and a pure sports car.
Tell them the little fact that you can get recaros ONLY in the V and suddenly you blew their mind.
From a buyers perspective, the vette isn't NEARLY the value it used to be. Not even so much from other companies, but from internal competition.
(As icing on the cake tell them how the cobalt SS came with recaros and the vette doesn't)
What does Cadillac produce that is superior to the Corvette? Nothing! Sure the V comes with monster HP and great handling but it does not have a Corvette's cache. This is not the Cadillac of the pre-80's era where it had cache & prestige. But like I said they will soon be a major player again with the new CTS and new halo car coming after that.
And if you feel the Z06 is over-valued, I wonder what you think about the base 911?
10-10-2012, 05:06 PM
#59
Totally disagree with your cadillac comment! Guess you haven't sat in a CTS or CTS -V? It's interior is ok but nothing special. The only Cadillac with a pretty nice interior is the new XTS and the ATS (considerring its price) but they still can be improved. Just wait till the C7 comes out and I guarantee (or hope lol) it will have a nicer interior than any Cadillac you have ever seen.
I sat in the XTS and ATS at Pebble Beach and wasn't that impressed. I would hope that the C7 interior is better. While there, I had a guy ask me what I thought about the seats. He told me he wasn't that impressed and had just closed the deal on a Lexus and that the interior of it was part of the reason why he didn't buy the Caddy.
Last edited by BlueOx; 10-10-2012 at 05:08 PM.
10-10-2012, 05:46 PM
#60
Drifting
Totally disagree with your cadillac comment! Guess you haven't sat in a CTS or CTS -V? It's interior is ok but nothing special. The only Cadillac with a pretty nice interior is the new XTS and the ATS (considerring its price) but they still can be improved. Just wait till the C7 comes out and I guarantee (or hope lol) it will have a nicer interior than any Cadillac you have ever seen.
What does Cadillac produce that is superior to the Corvette? Nothing! Sure the V comes with monster HP and great handling but it does not have a Corvette's cache. This is not the Cadillac of the pre-80's era where it had cache & prestige. But like I said they will soon be a major player again with the new CTS and new halo car coming after that.
And if you feel the Z06 is over-valued, I wonder what you think about the base 911?
What does Cadillac produce that is superior to the Corvette? Nothing! Sure the V comes with monster HP and great handling but it does not have a Corvette's cache. This is not the Cadillac of the pre-80's era where it had cache & prestige. But like I said they will soon be a major player again with the new CTS and new halo car coming after that.
And if you feel the Z06 is over-valued, I wonder what you think about the base 911?
If you're claiming the vette has an interior on par with the V, then I don't know what to say. I'm used to being in a two seater, and it's shifter and placement of everything seemed to fit my size perfectly. Better then I remembered honestly. But besides the excellent, clear gauges, there isn't much to look at. It's just plastic and horrible leather on the seats.
Notice I said nothing about other cars though? Of course a 911 costing twice as much as a base vette is nuts, people pay for image through and through. Is it nicer inside and competitive? Absolutely, in fact I believe a pdk 911 s is faster then an ls3 vette. Is it twice the car? Absolutely not. But, for better or for worse, the corvette has been fighting a stigma since the c5(and loosing in respect to the interior).
You're touting the corvette's 60 years as if the majority of car buyers actually care about that? The mustang gt was mildly competitive in the 80's, fell leagues behind in the 90's and sat on it's butt in the 00's. How many people buying the mustang for it's now stellar bang for the buck at every level, do you think are hesitant to buy because of it's "glorious"(lol) sohc 4.6 roots? Or are hesitant because their buddies at the local poker night will remember how a 215hp 5.0 gt had to put up with a 275+hp lt1 beatdown time after time and will make fun of them for it. History should always be remembered. But the c1 has 0 impact on a c6 zr1. The camaro died once, how many people have chose not to buy it because they don't want to get made fun of for having a car that couldn't sell enough at one point?
In the same respect, if one likes the new impala, should the be ashamed that the last "good" impala was the 96 SS?
Cadillac doesn't have anything superior? To the average buyer I just proved they do. 4 large nice quality seats, far more room, better ride with magnetic shocks when you want, full trunk space, and a more up to date interior design. All for around 10 grand less I believe. People never cross shop them you say? Then for 20 grand less you get a zl1 that still has nicer materials then the vette. These are things Joe schmoe sees and starts to associate brands with. Against it's competition the corvette is fine, outperforming cars 2 to 5 times as much as it. It's GM's own competition that makes one wonder is that extra half second really worth $20k more and sacrificing some pretty nice interiors.