I Bin Therbefor

From R&T April 2012

"We're eager to get to a new car and take everything learned from the C4, C5 and C6 and put that into a new vechicle and see how far we can advance all aspects of the car. Not just with incremental improvements in components such as tires and PTM, but a more wholistic approach."



Juechter is a systems engineer and acted as such on the C5. This is how he talks. So Corvette Chief Engineer, in your language, hopefully the individual elements of the system will act together in a synergestic manner so that the whole, the C7, will be greater than the sum of its parts!

zland

More importantly, I am hoping they look at the competition, set bench marks for all levels of performance & quality, & exceed those benchmarks.

I think car makers have to understand, it is a global economy & people that buy cars not only want a C7 that is better then a C6 but also better then other sports cars for sale today.

LS1LT1

While you're right and I do somewhat agree, I have to ask...would you pay $70k for a base (ie: before options) Corvette coupe?

Because that's very likely what it would cost to deliver a car that meets most/all of the criteria that you're asking for above.

Porsche Carrera S and Mercedes Benz SL63 are great performers with (according to some at least) good build quality and materials...but they're STILL slower than a base Corvette LS3 (a car that costs $45k to $90k less) in almost every performance category.
Performance is my number one priority when buying a sports car...and price/value is important too.

There are fine restaurants with great food that require men to wear a jacket to get into...but if I can still get a great steak at a location with a bit less glamorous looking atmosphere where I can also wear jeans and sneakers for only 60% of the price, then I'm probably going there instead.

1985 Corvette

And LS1LT1 is our C7 section poster of the day.

zland

Honestly, you cannot have a world class sports car that is not world class. The biggest problem I got with my & every C6 I have driven is the numb steering. Cars costing much less have a better feel. In fact, much of what people want to improve on the C6 is found on cheaper cars thus the base price does not need to go higher to make a better car.

Jinx

Here's how I read Juechter's comment: we didn't just swap out some parts on the C6 to improve it on paper; we looked at everything and tried to build the best car, not just the best specs.

Telepierre

On Juechter comments. Firstly I'd like to say I respect the man for the results brought forward to date.

I read his system approach as to say: This is a about evolving a system (IMHO=c6) to meet the evolved set of benchmarks for this car market segment.

Turns out, among others, that the systems engineering discipline aims at containing costs of development.

I suppose I disagree with the premise above. Indeed I think, by both objective and subjective criterias, the C6 is a world class sports car.

With numb steering we get into the gray area of objectivity meets subjectivity but most importantly the question I ask is: how do you compare steering between cheaper cars and a corvette? Do you do a 50 mph, 100mph, 150mph, and 200 mph comparative test?
I sure appreciate the steering feeling of my C6 at 150mph..

zland

Sure steering feel is subjective but I can say when I tracked my 350Z compared to my C6 the feeling was more connected. The C6 has a lot of good things going for it but needs some to be addressed.

1985 Corvette

Juechter's comment is spot on, to me. I like that he ties the C4 - C6 tech into this as a culmination of achievements and lessons learned from said achievements to make the C7 what it will be to us. Definitely beats the, "This car makes the old car look like crap" marketing approach.

BlueOx

The feeling may have felt more connected but I'm darn sure the speed wasn't the same. I hear this all the time about Corvettes. They are too big and too heavy UNTIL someone really pushes them on a track.

There are a lot of people who still want to believe the C5s felt faster than the C6 and a lot of that, IMHO, is because they were coarser, harsher, with more shock to the drivetrain.

zland

There are lap times & there are driving impressions. I, like most people do not own a street car for lap times to make a living thus it is all about the driving experience.

There is no perfect sports car for me. To begin with, the price of a C6 is at the top of my price range considering I have other priorities then to spend over 70K for a car. Here is my perspective & everyone has a different one:

C6: Love the power, exterior body style, LS motor/tq, inexpensive to maintain & repair.

350Z: Prefer the size to C6, feel the interior is inferior to C6. Steering, handling are better for me then C6 but hp & ability to increase hp are big negatives so that cost makes FI illogical for resale. FYI, I have driven modded 350Z's that dyno'ed over 430hp @ wheels thus certainly eqUAL TO POWER/SPEED OF C6'S, fun but does not make financial sense for me.

Porsche: My bet is I would like some variant of a 911, my bet is GT3 however price & repair cost = I will never know because it is not worth the money to me.

All other sport cars on the market under 70K have less appeal to me then the above.

All in all, if the C6 felt a little smaller, steering was more engaging, I would think it was the perfect sports car for me.

I hope no Corvette owners take it personal, I am just pointing out my own pros & cons.

Notch

A point most people miss.

teddym15

yes very good point. I agree with this totally. Corvette needs to stay affordable but still be just as god as any other sports car

shawnvettefan

If the steaks are exactly the same then it wouldn't matter and depends on your mood. But in regards to the Corvette they are not the same. You get a cheaper cut of meat in terms of overall quality. It's not all about perfomance, it's about the entire car as a whole.

I much rather pay $70K for a finely made Corvette than $50K for something similar to the quality of the C6. And just like the fine steak house, I would rather go once in a while to the more expensive place than go more often to the cheaper place.

And if I find myself not affording a World class (in all aspects) Corvette base priced at $70K (eventhough we all know it will not be $70K....maybe closer to $60K??) then I would wait a couple of years and buy that car used for $50K.

Z_Rocks

Couldn't say it any better. Raw performance is the key.

LS1LT1

Ok, the you would pay $70k for that 'better overall package' Corvette. That's fine.
Many others here (myself included) obviously would not.




1) No, we don't all know that it wouldn't be $70k, but maybe it wouldn't be, not sure.
2) In order for them to deliver the better than Porsche Carrera S (a $96k+ car by the way) performance that I expect the C7 to and also match the 911's interior accoutrement/features as you and a couple of others are asking for, how much exactly do you think it would cost?
I mean GM/Chevrolet is VERY good at delivering value and of course amortizing the costs of those improvements over an entire large production run certainly brings overall costs down as well but c'mon, they're not miracle workers.
And as base MSRP goes up SALES and PRODUCTION NUMBERS do go down as the single guy/gal living with mom/dad who makes only $30k - $40k a year can no longer afford said $70k (or even $60k) car.
And then that raises prices even further for the rest of us.
A $70k base model Corvette, I don't care how Jaguar/Mercedes it may be, will likely signal the end of the base Corvette.




That's very good advice and I agree...unfortunately that does NOTHING for GM/Chevrolet who is trying to sell the car RIGHT NOW.
No 'new/current' Corvette sales ALSO means no more used (late model) Corvettes to buy in a couple of years.

shawnvettefan

1. GM is not going to charge $20K for a far better interior. It doesn't cost that much to turn the interior into world class.

2. And since when is the Corvette targeted for the person making $30K-40K??? The average Corvette owner makes like $140K/Year give or take.

Telepierre

What does "world class" mean? can you really define it?

LS1LT1

You're probably correct, it might only be $6k - $10k more. I'm just not sure what some of you are seeking here or just how glamorous you really want it so it's difficult to determine just how much some this upgrading might actually cost.
There is a reason why these other cars (the Porsches/Mercedes/Aston Martins etc that some of you seem to want the Corvette to be able match/beat in EVERY single facet) cost so much more ya know.
We simply might not be able to have it both ways (ie: the WORLD CLASS performance the car already possesses now along with the soft touch dashboard material and paper thin gaps/seams that others might excel at).
And if I have to choose only one area of focus, that being either better performance or matching/beating how their leather feels or smells then I'm sorry but I'm choosing performance EVERY time.
It is a sports car afterall.

But yes, if we can actually have it all while still retaining the value/relatively low costs that we've all become so accustomed to all of these years then I'm all for it.






True, that is not their target buyer. But not everyone buying a Corvette is making $140k/year, or even over $90k/year on the low end either.
Some are even retired and bringing in only $25k/year but of course they also likely have accumulated wealth (or at least a paid off nice home) from over the years as well so that's sort of moot.
But even those $140k+/year earners might not pay that much more money than they are used to (ie: $45k base - $60k loaded) for a base Corvette, they'll simply start to look elsewhere if the price climbs too high. It's a big gamble/huge risk for Chevrolet/Team Corvette to take this car too far upmarket.

Bottom line is, you can't have an outgoing (2013) Corvette (a limited use, weekend only car for many essentially) selling for $50k and then suddenly the new one (2014) comes out and it's $60k+. Especially during these more troubling and stressful financial times.
It's NEVER been that way in the past and I just don't see it happening this time around either. My guess is a starting MSRP of $53k tops.

And based on that, those C7 engineers/designers will have to make critical decisions on exactly where to put the limited extra dollars they'll have to work with.
You (and some others) want an ipad touch screen and the finest Connolly hides available (and there's nothing wrong with that ).
I want mid-low 11 second 1/4 mile ETs at over 122+mph, 1g on the skidpad and a 60-0 stopping distances of well under 100 feet.

I guess time will tell who gets closer to what they're seeking.

LS1LT1

When it comes to sports car interiors, I don't know if one really can, there's simply far too much subjectivity and opinion involved in using terms such as better and higher quality.
With performance parameters we can certainly easily measure two different products.
If one goes 210mph and the other only goes 170mph then, well, one does that one particular job much better and is also clearly closer to (what some might refer to as) 'world class' than the other.
But areas such as styling or interior design, that's a tough one.

For example, this is considered by some to be a 'world class' interior and even I will agree that some (all?) of the materials utilized to make it are of good quality and quite fine.
But personally, I don't think it looks that good at all.