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GM planning dual-clutch gearbox for C7 Corvette?
10-05-2007, 01:05 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
GM planning dual-clutch gearbox for C7 Corvette?
More details about GM’s future plans have emerged from the last week’s release of official documents by the UAW outlining plant allocations for its new products. Earlier today we reported that GM is yet to designate a brand for its upcoming Volt plug-in hybrid and now we have news the General could introduce dual-clutch transmissions for the next-generation Corvette due in 2012 and possibly a facelifted Cadillac CTS due around the same time.
One of the posters on GMInsideNews noticed the statement “RWD DCT for NG Corvette will be allocated (2012)” printed on page 69 of one of the documents detailing plans for GM’s Toledo plant. We’d be very surprised if GM was still without a dual-clutch transmission within the next year or two considering most rivals are already planning the roll-out of the superior gearboxes, so an introduction on the Corvette is highly likely.
As for the new C7, rumors on this car are rife with some suggesting power levels above 600hp for the top end models and some even suggesting a mid-engine layout. Though we’re highly doubtful of some of these claims we do know engineers are focusing on drivetrain and weight distribution for the new model, as revealed by GM’s VP of global product development Jim Queen earlier in the year.
One of the posters on GMInsideNews noticed the statement “RWD DCT for NG Corvette will be allocated (2012)” printed on page 69 of one of the documents detailing plans for GM’s Toledo plant. We’d be very surprised if GM was still without a dual-clutch transmission within the next year or two considering most rivals are already planning the roll-out of the superior gearboxes, so an introduction on the Corvette is highly likely.
As for the new C7, rumors on this car are rife with some suggesting power levels above 600hp for the top end models and some even suggesting a mid-engine layout. Though we’re highly doubtful of some of these claims we do know engineers are focusing on drivetrain and weight distribution for the new model, as revealed by GM’s VP of global product development Jim Queen earlier in the year.
10-05-2007, 01:07 PM
#2
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Sorry, didn't know where to post C7 info...
We just finished reading the full summary of UAW’s contract with GM and guess what; UAW included (by mistake?) GM’s future product portfolio through 2013!!! What a #ucking booboo! The list gives us an unprecedented view of specific product commitments in 16 assembly plants across the USA.
As you might have guessed, GM isn't at all happy with UAW as this information is considered highly confidential for apparent competitive reasons. We’ve included the whole list for your gratification right after the jump (click the title or below), but here are a few goodies to get you started:
Corvette and Cadillac XLR replacements due in 2012
Global Delta Volt beginning in 2010
Global Delta MPV7 beginning in 2009
Cadillac CTS Wagon to be introduced in 2009
Cadillac CTS Coupe coming in 2009
Hummer H3T Pick Up to be introduced shortly
Hummer H3 and H3T replacement beginning in 2011
Two midsize / large rear-wheel-drive cars based on the Zeta platform (Camaro) to be introduced in 2011
Chevrolet to produce large four-door notchback in 2010
We just finished reading the full summary of UAW’s contract with GM and guess what; UAW included (by mistake?) GM’s future product portfolio through 2013!!! What a #ucking booboo! The list gives us an unprecedented view of specific product commitments in 16 assembly plants across the USA.
As you might have guessed, GM isn't at all happy with UAW as this information is considered highly confidential for apparent competitive reasons. We’ve included the whole list for your gratification right after the jump (click the title or below), but here are a few goodies to get you started:
Corvette and Cadillac XLR replacements due in 2012
Global Delta Volt beginning in 2010
Global Delta MPV7 beginning in 2009
Cadillac CTS Wagon to be introduced in 2009
Cadillac CTS Coupe coming in 2009
Hummer H3T Pick Up to be introduced shortly
Hummer H3 and H3T replacement beginning in 2011
Two midsize / large rear-wheel-drive cars based on the Zeta platform (Camaro) to be introduced in 2011
Chevrolet to produce large four-door notchback in 2010
10-05-2007, 04:16 PM
#4
Cutting back to only 2 clutches may save a bit of weight over the 4L65 (3 clutches) and the 6L85 (5 clutches), but it means they'll need sliders and shift dogs to replace the hydromatic clutches (servos). So I'm not convinced it'll save much weight, and will certainly reduce reliability and longevity.
I doubt a twin shaft slider setup will be stronger than constant mesh planetary gearsets either. GM has known for a very long time how to make a planetary transmission that can handle large amounts of power. The venerable Powerglide is still first choice in some racing classes because it is so tough, strong, and light.
I doubt a twin shaft slider setup will be stronger than constant mesh planetary gearsets either. GM has known for a very long time how to make a planetary transmission that can handle large amounts of power. The venerable Powerglide is still first choice in some racing classes because it is so tough, strong, and light.
02-08-2008, 07:20 PM
#5
Drifting
Dual clutch gearboxes
Shopdog,
I'm pretty sure that they're talking about manual gearboxes, not automatics. Volkswagen pioneered the DSG gearbox, that had two clutches, one for 1st, 3rd, and 5th, the other for reverse, 2nd, 4th and 6th., I think.
The way I understand it to work is that when you take off in 1st gear using the first clutch, 2nd gear is already engaged but not "released" by the second clutch. As soon as you move the lever to 2nd position, the first clutch (holding 1st gear) is disengaged and the second clutch (holding 2nd gear) is engaged. Then the first clutch is now holding 3rd gear, waiting for the driver to pull the lever for 3rd gear.
And so on through all of the gears. BMW is about to release a seven (
!!!) speed twin clutch gearbox on one of its top models, and this will probably filter down through lesser models.
So, as several major car makers are building their own versions of dual clutch gearboxes, it's only natural that GM is looking at this new concept.
How does it all work? Don't ask me, but try Volkswagen, maybe they have details on their website.
Regards from Down Under
aussiejohn (C3 Forum usually)
18 months to go.
I'm pretty sure that they're talking about manual gearboxes, not automatics. Volkswagen pioneered the DSG gearbox, that had two clutches, one for 1st, 3rd, and 5th, the other for reverse, 2nd, 4th and 6th., I think.
The way I understand it to work is that when you take off in 1st gear using the first clutch, 2nd gear is already engaged but not "released" by the second clutch. As soon as you move the lever to 2nd position, the first clutch (holding 1st gear) is disengaged and the second clutch (holding 2nd gear) is engaged. Then the first clutch is now holding 3rd gear, waiting for the driver to pull the lever for 3rd gear.
And so on through all of the gears. BMW is about to release a seven (
!!!) speed twin clutch gearbox on one of its top models, and this will probably filter down through lesser models.So, as several major car makers are building their own versions of dual clutch gearboxes, it's only natural that GM is looking at this new concept.
How does it all work? Don't ask me, but try Volkswagen, maybe they have details on their website.
Regards from Down Under
aussiejohn (C3 Forum usually)
18 months to go.
02-09-2008, 02:55 PM
#6
Safety Car
Member Since: Jan 2006
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2020 C6 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16,'17,'18-'19-'20-'21-'22
A picture is worth . . .
. . . looking at, for some understanding:
See DCT LINK for details, and the source of this sketch. When you understand this, you will see why a SEVEN speed is a natural for the DCT.
If you like computers controlling your vehicle, you will love the DCT.
See DCT LINK for details, and the source of this sketch. When you understand this, you will see why a SEVEN speed is a natural for the DCT.
If you like computers controlling your vehicle, you will love the DCT.
Last edited by The Clevite Kid; 02-09-2008 at 02:57 PM.
02-09-2008, 05:24 PM
#7
Race Director
More details about GM’s future plans have emerged from the last week’s release of official documents by the UAW outlining plant allocations for its new products. Earlier today we reported that GM is yet to designate a brand for its upcoming Volt plug-in hybrid and now we have news the General could introduce dual-clutch transmissions for the next-generation Corvette due in 2012 and possibly a facelifted Cadillac CTS due around the same time.
One of the posters on GMInsideNews noticed the statement “RWD DCT for NG Corvette will be allocated (2012)” printed on page 69 of one of the documents detailing plans for GM’s Toledo plant. We’d be very surprised if GM was still without a dual-clutch transmission within the next year or two considering most rivals are already planning the roll-out of the superior gearboxes, so an introduction on the Corvette is highly likely.
As for the new C7, rumors on this car are rife with some suggesting power levels above 600hp for the top end models and some even suggesting a mid-engine layout. Though we’re highly doubtful of some of these claims we do know engineers are focusing on drivetrain and weight distribution for the new model, as revealed by GM’s VP of global product development Jim Queen earlier in the year.
One of the posters on GMInsideNews noticed the statement “RWD DCT for NG Corvette will be allocated (2012)” printed on page 69 of one of the documents detailing plans for GM’s Toledo plant. We’d be very surprised if GM was still without a dual-clutch transmission within the next year or two considering most rivals are already planning the roll-out of the superior gearboxes, so an introduction on the Corvette is highly likely.
As for the new C7, rumors on this car are rife with some suggesting power levels above 600hp for the top end models and some even suggesting a mid-engine layout. Though we’re highly doubtful of some of these claims we do know engineers are focusing on drivetrain and weight distribution for the new model, as revealed by GM’s VP of global product development Jim Queen earlier in the year.
04-02-2008, 05:51 AM
#9
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I'm pretty sure that they're talking about manual gearboxes, not automatics. Volkswagen pioneered the DSG gearbox, that had two clutches, one for 1st, 3rd, and 5th, the other for reverse, 2nd, 4th and 6th., I think.
There are different types of transmissions on the market. Dual clutches are used on electronically controlled manual gear boxes. Then you have the automatic transmissions with a torque converter (and clutch packs) that are electronically controlled since many years now. And continuous variable transmissions using a chain such as DSG.
GM Hybrid solutions use actually automatic transmissions (since the electric motor is a part of the transmission). It is too early to know exactly what GM means by dual clutch …is it one clutch for the electric motor and another one for the engine ???
Last edited by VetteSpeed-427; 04-02-2008 at 06:03 AM.
04-03-2008, 01:26 AM
#10
Burning Brakes
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VetteSpeed-427: DSG is VWs name for DCT, dual clutch transmission, exactly as pictured above. One for even gears, one for odds. computer controlled, amazingly fast and smooth.
You are thinking CVT, which is the continuously variable transmission. Thats the one sans gears.
DCT good, CVT bad.
And not having a DCT available at launch of the C7 would sour me on GM for a very long time. :/
You are thinking CVT, which is the continuously variable transmission. Thats the one sans gears.
DCT good, CVT bad.
And not having a DCT available at launch of the C7 would sour me on GM for a very long time. :/
04-03-2008, 04:27 AM
#11
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VetteSpeed-427: DSG is VWs name for DCT, dual clutch transmission, exactly as pictured above. One for even gears, one for odds. computer controlled, amazingly fast and smooth.
You are thinking CVT, which is the continuously variable transmission. Thats the one sans gears.
DCT good, CVT bad.
And not having a DCT available at launch of the C7 would sour me on GM for a very long time. :/
You are thinking CVT, which is the continuously variable transmission. Thats the one sans gears.
DCT good, CVT bad.
And not having a DCT available at launch of the C7 would sour me on GM for a very long time. :/
DSG photo
[IMG]
[/IMG]
04-18-2008, 12:21 PM
#13
Drifting
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Actually, it was Borg-Warner who pioneered the DSG gearbox. VW was just the first to sign up with Borg-Warner and use the new gearbox in their cars.
04-18-2008, 03:16 PM
#14
Le Mans Master
I think the Ferrari F1 box is the original Electronically Shifted Manual gear box (SMG) for their Ferrari team. I think all the others are take-offs of that.
I'd like to see some type of SMG, DCT or the like in a corvette.
I'd like to see some type of SMG, DCT or the like in a corvette.
06-16-2008, 08:59 PM
#15
Race Director
Jimmy
