Runge_Kutta

What's left for speculation??

1) When do the regular coupe and convertible move over
___to the aluminum frame and magnesium crossmembers?
2) Is there a second version of the Z06 with 550hp?
3) When do the 3V heads show up in C6?
4) Are things like ceramic rotors, titanium exhaust,
___titanium half-shafts, and a polycarbonate hatch going
___to show up in C6/Z06 in MY07+? If there is a Z06-R,
___will it get the ceramic rotors, titanium exhaust,
___and titanium half-shafts.
5) Do the coupe and convertible get an optional engine?
6) Does the LS2 get a power bump now that the new 6L80-E
___transmission is available in MY2006 and Chrysler is now
___selling the 425hp Hemi?
7) After seeing what might have been a 2V, GDI engine with
___575hp show up in a show GTO, when does GDI/SIDI/DISI show
___up in C6?
8) Is C6 going to ever see a transmission besides a pure
___manual or a pure automatic?
9) Will the paint on the carbon fiber body parts annoy
___customers.
10)Did GM/Dana get the aluminum frame design/construction right?
11)What's the best way to get more hp out of an LS7?
12) What's up with C7?

WhiteDiamond

1. I hope a special version or a competition Z51 package is coming with the aluminum/magnesium frame, a 3-valve headed 6.3/6.4L and maybe a non-run flat tire package.
2. A 2nd version of a Z06??
3. See #1
4. I am surprised the TI exhaust didn't show up. I definately feel GM will offer a composite braking system as soon as the costs are a little more in line.
5. See #1
6. I hope we see a power increase ASAP. The 6 speed seems like a done deal, but it is a bit like the stock market....If I knew when, I'd be on the Ferrari boards
7. Soon!!! I hope.
8. Probably, down the road.
9. What is the issue with paint on CF?
10. HOPE SO!!
11. Head flow, cam and tuning(I bet tuning can get the as delivered LS7 up the scale a bit...We know the LS2 is going to benefit from the timing info we have seen).
12. It is coming after the C6
Todd

ivan111

Definetly GM should drop the AL frame in the base C6 also....

Ceramic brakes and 3V heads are coming is just a matter of time.....

Polycarbonate technology looks likes is not as advanced as we thought, unability to pass UV and scracth tests seems like the primary reasons for not making it to the Z06.....

Ti exhaust looks like is gone probably for years until costs come down...

yellow01

Putting the Al frame in a base C6 would make a Z51 car quite a little track-mobile...that would be sweet.

SamsBud

And spendy....

burtonbl103

Al frame will NEVER happen in the base c6

yellow01

Why not? Tooling exists and design is complete.

WhiteDiamond

Saying never on the aluminum frame has bitten more than a few on this board in the Azz.....I would say it is more likely that the aluminum frame makes an appearance in a few years once more knowledge and control on the process are developed. It only makes sense, larger production reduces costs, typically.

Todd

Cosmic Vette

I think we should spend some time speculating about the best, most cost effective means for increasing the HP from 512 upwards without decreasing the drivability or reliability of the car. Its going to be a fertile topic at some point, why not start now and take a brief respite from the pricing speculations?

Zlicious

Final gear ratio. That is the one thing i have not heard rumors on. Hope it is geared aggressively because that will be the deciding factor in regards to just how much quicker it will be than a SRT-10.

ivan111

Variable Valve Timing was rumored long time ago to be coming in the new LS engines but so far it has been left in the air....

LongTimer

Yep. One of our more knowledgable posters was at odds with me about a Z06 Al frame substitute when I brought it up in early '04.

Regardless, I feel the likelyhood of special Z06 bits making it into the Targa & Vert depends on a couple of things:

1. Why is Dana making the Al frame? ... too manual labor intensive? ... can it be produced at a comparative cost (material cost increase only) to the steel HF rail?
2. Will the Z06 be priced with the assumption that some of the parts costs will reduced due to lower costs of a production of 33,000+ (incl targa & vert), or at a production rate of approx. 5,000 units - IMO the highest possible production level should they price the Z06 in or at the $70's?

When we get answers to these questions, perhaps we can better speculate as to the answers to most of Runge's questions.

BTW, If the frame, subframe and floorpans were incorporated into the Targa / Vert, GM would have another problem - they would be lighter than the Z06 and, of course their individual performance would improve (not to Z06 levels of course).

yelloz06

1. Price......still
2. Allocations
3. Ordering date

Runge_Kutta

Here are some thoughts:

1) When do the regular coupe and convertible move over
___to the aluminum frame and magnesium crossmembers?

Dana does hydroformed frames for many manufacturers and
for many models. GM has some new technology and patents
but may not want to make a huge investment in production
facilities for an aluminum frame. Dana wants to acquire
and develop some new technology to prevail in the frame
business. In this context, the GM-Dana partnership works
well for everyone. GM simply buys frames from Dana and
Dana amortizes a good chunk of the cost for the C6 frames
over all potential production of aluminum frames coming up.
I think that many cars will get aluminum frames in the
future just like many have aluminum blocked engines now.
Putting the frames just on the Z06 initially is probably
just a CYA gesture until they are 100% sure they got things
right. Wait until a few cars get in wrecks to check out
how the frames fared. Also, see if any complaints come
back after owners have thrashed their cars for a while.
It was hinted at by Hib Halverson and a banned member
a year ago that the regular C6 would get the new frame in
MY07. I would think that there is a desire to only have
one frame. Besides, I think it was originally the intention
of the C6 program to have the aluminum frame and A6 transmission
avialable at the beginning but the spending slowdown associated
with 9/11 made the schedules slip. By the way, I suspect
magnesium subframes are about the same price as aluminum subframes
after you've sunk the cost of design. The question is what was
this ALCOA contract about

http://www.forbes.com/markets/feeds/...ap1577177.html

It may be that the magnesium subframes go with the aluminum
frame and the aluminum subframes go with the steel frame.
I wonder what frame the XLR-V will use?


These comments are related to some of the other questions.
It seems to me that what happened here with the Z06 is
that a price point was set and then slick upgrades were added
until the target price was reached. What would be most
important to include in a new Z06? A powerful engine
and an aluminum frame. I suspect those were the priority
items and that used up most of the budget. I bet the
titanium cost couldn't be included without breaking
the price point. The same goes for ceramic brakes. This
should also be viewed in the light of the huge weight
reduction efforts pioneered in the government/industry
PNGV program during the late 1990s. The weight of vehicles
must be reduced and the Z06 is serving as an introduction
point for mass produced aluminum frames, big magnesium
parts, affordable titanium connecting rods, and affordable
carbon fiber. This stuff will be getting more and more common
in the coming years.

11)What's the best way to get more hp out of an LS7?

The competition will not sit still while you kick their butts.
I think this was important in the choice to use a 7.0L engine.
The Z06 will cause a response in the marketplace. By starting with
a 7.0L engine and a 2V head configuration, the Corvette team
can easily up the ante if needed. Phase one would be to slap
the 3V heads on and get a bump from 500hp to 550hp. That will
be cheap and I wouldn't be surprised to see that happen in the
course of the C6 program. Also, the state-of-the-art 2V head design
is now available for all older GenIII and GenIV for everyone else -
but might require some adaptations. If 550hp isn't enough, there are
GDI versions for both 2V and 3V configurations. The orange GTO
2V engine put out 90.4 hp/L. Applied to a 7.0L engine gives 630hp.
I suspect a 3V GDI can generate more power per liter than a 2V
version. By the way, I don't know for sure that the 575hp GTO engine
was GDI but I can't see how else they pulled 90hp/L off.

LT1GMC

One reason the alum frame may not make the standard C6 is the strength issue with the removable top, that is the reason listed for the permanently installed roof in the Z06.

Runge_Kutta

I think that aluminum frame is at least as strong as
the steel one and probably stronger in the sense of
elastic deformation under design loads.

Racer X

I think this can be done. one of the companies that produces CDs for computers, ha a new coating. It is VERY scratch resistant. It adds little cost to a disc (.30?). Now for a back "glass" it be a lot ($100?), if it can be done on a large surface.

Greg

Runge_Kutta

Excellent point! From what Motor Trend lists,

http://vorlon.case.edu/~aap8/gallery...06_8.sized.jpg

there were about 88 pounds added to the Z06. The frame and front engine
cradle dropped 149 pounds. Since the aluminum frame puts the battery in
the back, a straight swap of the coupe and convertible to the aluminum
frame and front magnesium crossmember would drop about 140 pounds. That
would take the two cars to

3179 - 140 = 3039
3199 - 140 = 3059

If this happens then it might be a good idea to upgrade the Z06 with
a titanium exhaust system.

Guru_4_hire

1.) probably with the introduction of the C7 when all the bugs are out of the process and it has been "proven"

2.)I seriously doubt it. We already have 4 different packages, I think a 5th is a bit much. We might see the Z06 increase power to 550hp in 2-3 years.

3.)C7 or some kind of dealer installed COPO package like the copo ZL1 camaros released in 2002. Again proving time for normal use in the C7.

4.) same as 3

5.) probably not

6.) Probably in the 3rd or 4th model year. About halfway through the body life of the vehicle, when it needs a pick me up.

Guru_4_hire

I would rather see a return of the B2K option because of the mythology developing around turbovettes from callaway and LPE. Hell GM probably could get LPE to supply the parts.