[Z06] New Battleship Class Z06?
08-19-2014, 12:39 PM
#41
Safety Car
In this months R&T there is a comparison test of the new M4 and the base 911. Here is an interesting quote from that article:
Of all the characteristic differences between the M4 and 911, though, the defining one is even more elementary than the placement of the engine, the number of pedals, or whether or not there are turbos involved. It’s weight. At 3164 pounds, the Porsche undercuts the BMW by more than 400 pounds, so the 911 comes by its athleticism naturally. It hangs with the M4 even without turbochargers, a limited-slip differential, or carbon-ceramic rotors.
The article goes on to state that even with a major power disadvantage the 911 was nearly as quick in acceleration and stopped even more quickly. All due in part to the 400 lb weight advantage.
Of all the characteristic differences between the M4 and 911, though, the defining one is even more elementary than the placement of the engine, the number of pedals, or whether or not there are turbos involved. It’s weight. At 3164 pounds, the Porsche undercuts the BMW by more than 400 pounds, so the 911 comes by its athleticism naturally. It hangs with the M4 even without turbochargers, a limited-slip differential, or carbon-ceramic rotors.
The article goes on to state that even with a major power disadvantage the 911 was nearly as quick in acceleration and stopped even more quickly. All due in part to the 400 lb weight advantage.
08-19-2014, 12:52 PM
#42
Le Mans Master
Bingo! When new, my '10 3LZ Z06 had
With power now at an emissions legal (in Va) 625 h/p and 605 lbs of torque, I feel no concerns about going head to head with a new Z that weighs at least 430 lbs more and sports 25 additional h/p. With the addition of a Pfadt Johnny O'Connell suspension and Michelin Pilot SS tires, I have no handling concerns either.
What's that???
08-19-2014, 01:22 PM
#43
Le Mans Master
yes you're right, but talking about freaking auto tranny!! If i wanted the fastest street auto car i would do gtr! What's the point of going fast if you have nothing to do with it? If i ever get a Z06 in few years its sure as hell will manual!!
08-19-2014, 01:24 PM
#44
Burning Brakes
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What is what? Actually, I am rating the power conservatively. As I said previously, the car retains its stock exhaust manifolds and cats. If you want to know why the car is at 3090 lbs and 625 h/p I suggest you do a search on this forum for my "Project Crystal" threads.
IMHO, GM should have taken a similar approach to the new Z06 instead of creating a base coupe that is now over 430 lbs heavier than my 3LZ and a base vert that tips the scales at almost 3600 lbs.
I am sure the marketing and business plan group drove this decision more than they ever did with the original C5 and C6 Z06s. If I were a GM board member or significant stockholder , I am sure I would be pleased. However, as the end-user of a performance vehicle model that was developed to be the lightest Vette model with substantial power to be their best road track offering, I consider the new model to be nothing more than a slightly improved ZR1. The new Z06 is now in the Mustang pony car weight class. I would have liked to have seen the new Z remain N/A (think how direct injection would have increased h/p to at least the mid 500s with a few other tweaks) plus both a bit smaller and lighter than the C6 Z.
Those are my opinions, yours may vary. GM did what they felt they needed to do from a marketing and profit perspective. I am pointing out what I (and I suspect some other Z06 owners) feel from our perspective. Both perspectives need to be understood and respected.
I do not plan to buy any more Z06's (would have been Z06 #4)...
IMHO, GM should have taken a similar approach to the new Z06 instead of creating a base coupe that is now over 430 lbs heavier than my 3LZ and a base vert that tips the scales at almost 3600 lbs.
I am sure the marketing and business plan group drove this decision more than they ever did with the original C5 and C6 Z06s. If I were a GM board member or significant stockholder , I am sure I would be pleased. However, as the end-user of a performance vehicle model that was developed to be the lightest Vette model with substantial power to be their best road track offering, I consider the new model to be nothing more than a slightly improved ZR1. The new Z06 is now in the Mustang pony car weight class. I would have liked to have seen the new Z remain N/A (think how direct injection would have increased h/p to at least the mid 500s with a few other tweaks) plus both a bit smaller and lighter than the C6 Z.
Those are my opinions, yours may vary. GM did what they felt they needed to do from a marketing and profit perspective. I am pointing out what I (and I suspect some other Z06 owners) feel from our perspective. Both perspectives need to be understood and respected.
I do not plan to buy any more Z06's (would have been Z06 #4)...
08-19-2014, 01:30 PM
#45
Le Mans Master
What is what? Actually, I am rating the power conservatively. As I said previously, the car retains its stock exhaust manifolds and cats. If you want to know why the car is at 3090 lbs and 625 h/p I suggest you do a search on this forum for my "Project Crystal" threads.
IMHO, GM should have taken a similar approach to the new Z06 instead of creating a base coupe that is now over 430 lbs heavier than my 3LZ and a base vert that tips the scales at almost 3600 lbs.
I am sure the marketing and business plan group drove this decision more than they ever did with the original C5 and C6 Z06s. If I were a GM board member or significant stockholder , I am sure I would be pleased. However, as the end-user of a performance vehicle model that was developed to be the lightest Vette model with substantial power to be their best road track offering, I consider the new model to be nothing more than a slightly improved ZR1. The new Z06 is now in the Mustang pony car weight class. I would have liked to have seen the new Z remain N/A (think how direct injection would have increased h/p to at least the mid 500s with a few other tweaks) plus both a bit smaller and lighter than the C6 Z.
Those are my opinions, yours may vary. GM did what they felt they needed to do from a marketing and profit perspective. I am pointing out what I (and I suspect some other Z06 owners) feel from our perspective. Both perspectives need to be understood and respected.
I do not plan to buy any more Z06's (would have been Z06 #4)...
IMHO, GM should have taken a similar approach to the new Z06 instead of creating a base coupe that is now over 430 lbs heavier than my 3LZ and a base vert that tips the scales at almost 3600 lbs.
I am sure the marketing and business plan group drove this decision more than they ever did with the original C5 and C6 Z06s. If I were a GM board member or significant stockholder , I am sure I would be pleased. However, as the end-user of a performance vehicle model that was developed to be the lightest Vette model with substantial power to be their best road track offering, I consider the new model to be nothing more than a slightly improved ZR1. The new Z06 is now in the Mustang pony car weight class. I would have liked to have seen the new Z remain N/A (think how direct injection would have increased h/p to at least the mid 500s with a few other tweaks) plus both a bit smaller and lighter than the C6 Z.
Those are my opinions, yours may vary. GM did what they felt they needed to do from a marketing and profit perspective. I am pointing out what I (and I suspect some other Z06 owners) feel from our perspective. Both perspectives need to be understood and respected.
I do not plan to buy any more Z06's (would have been Z06 #4)...
Gotcha! i missunderstood, i thought the C7Z06 was detuned for VA emissions!!
08-19-2014, 03:00 PM
#46
Le Mans Master
I think we have to stop and consider that the base C7 is close to the C6Z in power and torque (but it is slightly heavier). In order for a meaningful performance enhancement at a reasonable cost, forced induction was the way to go. That dictated the increased weight. When the C7Z erases the times set by the Z and ZR 1, the extra weight will fade from memory.
A lot of the criticism of the C7Z, which no one has yet driven, is simply confirmational bias on the part of C6Z owners.
A lot of the criticism of the C7Z, which no one has yet driven, is simply confirmational bias on the part of C6Z owners.
08-19-2014, 04:23 PM
#49
Safety Car
I think we have to stop and consider that the base C7 is close to the C6Z in power and torque (but it is slightly heavier). In order for a meaningful performance enhancement at a reasonable cost, forced induction was the way to go. That dictated the increased weight. When the C7Z erases the times set by the Z and ZR 1, the extra weight will fade from memory....
08-19-2014, 04:33 PM
#50
Drifting
08-19-2014, 04:52 PM
#51
Le Mans Master
08-19-2014, 04:57 PM
#52
Burning Brakes
Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. Consider this: The old gasping C6 Z06/z07 stands in the fastest 4 production cars to lap Mazda Raceway Leguna Seca @ 1.34.43. By comparison, the C7 Stingray Z51 went round in 1.38.28, nearly 4 full seconds slower! That isn't even a contest. The C6 ZR1 still holds the record lap for production cars at Leguna Seca, and while I think the C7 Z06 will improve on that, it won't be anything close to 4 seconds faster than the ZR1.
08-19-2014, 05:01 PM
#53
Burning Brakes
08-19-2014, 05:24 PM
#54
Drifting
I promised myself a 427 Corvette back in 1967. I had to wait 40 years and boy am I glad I waited. I finally pulled the trigger for exactly what the C6Z is; big, normally aspirated motor in a super light, great handling car. My personal mods have mostly been to lighten the car and is now at 2862 lbs. I am also now getting 19.7 MPG city in the summer (Full blast A/C) and 20.5 in the Winter. As far as GM is concerned, the UAW can take GM any way they want. I am totally disappointed in the new Vette and the Z in particular so I won't be buying another Vette. The only thing I really don't like is that they are calling the new car a Z06. When you try to play off the heritage of the original, the C5z and the C6z it comes across to me as blasphemy. I would really like to know why they didn't call it the C7 ZR1?
Gary
Gary
08-19-2014, 05:30 PM
#55
Burning Brakes
I think the new Sc z06 is part of GMs hand-me-down evolution. The camaro z28 got the ls7 handed down; the z06 gets what would have been the next zr1. However, the zr1 will be awd mid-engine...or maybe front wheel hybrid assist....something new. Then the c8 will get handed down the new.
As many have said, the z06 didn't survive the evolution because it didn't sell well after zr1/GS.
As many have said, the z06 didn't survive the evolution because it didn't sell well after zr1/GS.
08-19-2014, 05:38 PM
#56
Burning Brakes
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I think we have to stop and consider that the base C7 is close to the C6Z in power and torque (but it is slightly heavier). In order for a meaningful performance enhancement at a reasonable cost, forced induction was the way to go. That dictated the increased weight. When the C7Z erases the times set by the Z and ZR 1, the extra weight will fade from memory.
A lot of the criticism of the C7Z, which no one has yet driven, is simply confirmational bias on the part of C6Z owners.
A lot of the criticism of the C7Z, which no one has yet driven, is simply confirmational bias on the part of C6Z owners.
GM can produce whatever it sees fit and call it whatever it wants, but the new Z represents a very heavy-handed departure from that original focus. Most new Z's will not be sold as stripped base models, so the coupe weights may get very close to 3600 lbs while the verts will be way over. Those weights put it into the pony car car weight class. Some folks liked the prior lightweight, track-oriented approach and are disappointed that it did not continue to evolve along those lines. To those folks, it seems like it is a slightly improved ZR1. It is not bias to be cognizant of this obvious sea-lane change, but it is myopic to not acknowledge it. Whether you LIKE the change is simply your OPINION, not a "bias."
My OPINION is that I do not like what the Z06 has morphed into. Some will agree with me, some will not. My choice is to not purchase a 4th Z06 but to keep finessing the 3090 lb, 625 h/p one I have. Looking forward to seeing these on the track.
I have noticed in the past that on this Forum, anyone who disagrees with the C7 inevitably runs the risk of being a "troll." I suppose now on this Forum, some are trying to attribute "bias" to honestly held opinions.
Won't work....
08-19-2014, 05:39 PM
#57
Burning Brakes
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In this months R&T there is a comparison test of the new M4 and the base 911. Here is an interesting quote from that article:
Of all the characteristic differences between the M4 and 911, though, the defining one is even more elementary than the placement of the engine, the number of pedals, or whether or not there are turbos involved. It’s weight. At 3164 pounds, the Porsche undercuts the BMW by more than 400 pounds, so the 911 comes by its athleticism naturally. It hangs with the M4 even without turbochargers, a limited-slip differential, or carbon-ceramic rotors.
The article goes on to state that even with a major power disadvantage the 911 was nearly as quick in acceleration and stopped even more quickly. All due in part to the 400 lb weight advantage.
Of all the characteristic differences between the M4 and 911, though, the defining one is even more elementary than the placement of the engine, the number of pedals, or whether or not there are turbos involved. It’s weight. At 3164 pounds, the Porsche undercuts the BMW by more than 400 pounds, so the 911 comes by its athleticism naturally. It hangs with the M4 even without turbochargers, a limited-slip differential, or carbon-ceramic rotors.
The article goes on to state that even with a major power disadvantage the 911 was nearly as quick in acceleration and stopped even more quickly. All due in part to the 400 lb weight advantage.
08-19-2014, 05:43 PM
#58
Burning Brakes
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I promised myself a 427 Corvette back in 1967. I had to wait 40 years and boy am I glad I waited. I finally pulled the trigger for exactly what the C6Z is; big, normally aspirated motor in a super light, great handling car. My personal mods have mostly been to lighten the car and is now at 2862 lbs. I am also now getting 19.7 MPG city in the summer (Full blast A/C) and 20.5 in the Winter. As far as GM is concerned, the UAW can take GM any way they want. I am totally disappointed in the new Vette and the Z in particular so I won't be buying another Vette. The only thing I really don't like is that they are calling the new car a Z06. When you try to play off the heritage of the original, the C5z and the C6z it comes across to me as blasphemy. I would really like to know why they didn't call it the C7 ZR1?
Gary
Gary
08-19-2014, 05:59 PM
#59
Safety Car
2862 lbs. Wow!
Frankly, if most of us had wanted a heavier supercharged car we would/could have bought a ZR1 even if it was purchased used due to financial constraints.
So, yes, I expect there will be a lot of bias on this board re: the C7Z06 (nee C7ZR1).
I wanted a 427 that was powerful and light and I got that. I don't need/want anything else. The C7Z06 forum is likely populated by people that are going to love that car, but don't expect this forum to necessarily join in.
Frankly, if most of us had wanted a heavier supercharged car we would/could have bought a ZR1 even if it was purchased used due to financial constraints.
So, yes, I expect there will be a lot of bias on this board re: the C7Z06 (nee C7ZR1).
I wanted a 427 that was powerful and light and I got that. I don't need/want anything else. The C7Z06 forum is likely populated by people that are going to love that car, but don't expect this forum to necessarily join in.
Last edited by pkincy; 08-19-2014 at 06:03 PM.
08-19-2014, 07:43 PM
#60
Drifting
Because it's end of life on a very low production vehicle, which saves GM enormous R&D (Z06 owners were beta testers 
), while causing them very little in CAFE credits.
Dude, only an Odumba voter would come in here and deny, defend, or complain about someone hating on the ludicrous CAFE standards. So maybe you should own a Prius and you'll feel more welcome in its forums.
), while causing them very little in CAFE credits.Dude, only an Odumba voter would come in here and deny, defend, or complain about someone hating on the ludicrous CAFE standards. So maybe you should own a Prius and you'll feel more welcome in its forums.