When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
C6 Corvette ZR1 & Z06General info about GM’s Corvette Supercar, LS9 Corvette Technical Info, Performance Upgrades, Suspension Setup for Street or Track
Z06 guys are without a doubt the most insular group ever.
You are pretty much calling all Z06 owners "ignorant" with that phrase. Please take that chit elsewhere.
*sitting back waiting for the My GS with 10,000rwhp will beat your Z06... comback...
Originally Posted by Corvettinator
The vast majority of (actual and potential) Corvette buyers want a fast, sexy street machine. Even most Z06 owners don't track their cars.
Classic strawman excuse from a non Z06 owner...
Past sales figures only proves that true Z06 buyers bought the car for performance....not for looks. Tracking the car is irrelevant as the Z06 represents something totally more to its owners....
You are pretty much calling all Z06 owners "ignorant" with that phrase. Please take that chit elsewhere.
*sitting back waiting for the My GS with 10,000rwhp will beat your Z06... comback...
Classic strawman excuse from a non Z06 owner...
Past sales figures only proves that true Z06 buyers bought the car for performance....not for looks. Tracking the car is irrelevant as the Z06 represents something totally more to its owners....
So what exactly is the purpose of your post???
First off, I'm supporting member, so I'll take my chit wherever I damn well please. I've sure seen you post in non-Z06 subforums trashing the GS (something I am not doing in here. I'm questioning the business model).
And I do think a lot Z06 owners here tend to suffer from confirmation bias. Your comments about why Z06 owners bought their cars only further prove that. The Z06 simply didn't sell well (especially after the launch of the ZR1 and GS), regardless of why you bought it.
GM offered the LS7 in a convertible and automatic in 2013, and sold 5X more than the previous year's Z06. That's all you need to know about why the C7Z is what it is. That, and a 427 gas-guzzler is no longer PC at Government Motors.
This is a huge disappointment for me, the dilution of the Corvette performance flagship. They should have called the new car the ZR1 or something else.
Now that I know the direction of Corvette performance, I am pouring money into my C6Z rather than trading it away for the new model. The most expensive thing to do with a car is to take weight out without compromising the amenities. I shudder to think what it would cost to take 400lbs out of the new car without ruining it for street driving. That is the weight advantage of the C6Z06. Nearly 400lbs!!! That's a 12% increase in weight offset by a 28% increase in HP with the same available traction. The new car will consume tires, brakes and chassis parts a lot faster.
If the engineers at Mazda can take 220lbs off the Miata while advancing the design, it leads me to think the Corvette engineers just took the easy way out by chucking a big supercharger on the LT1 with more electronic nannies.
Bingo! When new, my '10 3LZ Z06 had a curb weight of 3167 lbs on the same race shop scales which now read a curb weight of 3090 lbs. Over 30 of those pounds were a reduction in unsprung weight, which supposedly are worth twice as much as sprung weight reductions. Even at the original 3167 lbs, that is a big delta from the C7 BASE Z06 at 3522 lbs and the BASE C7 Z07 tipping the scales at almost 3600 lbs - this is approaching pony car (Mustang) territory. It is not cheap to take off the lbs, but it is the gift that keeps on giving, has no effects on emissions, and noticeably improves handling and acceleration.
With power now at an emissions legal (in Va) 625 h/p and 605 lbs of torque, I feel no concerns about going head to head with a new Z that weighs at least 430 lbs more and sports 25 additional h/p. With the addition of a Pfadt Johnny O'Connell suspension and Michelin Pilot SS tires, I have no handling concerns either.
So, I have taken the course you are contemplating (reference my "Project Crystal") posts on this forum and have never regretted it. I bought my Z new at a very deep discount, and with all of my mods, probably have about $90k or so invested. I would just recommend you pursue a balanced systems approach to your project.
I am sure the new car will meet all of the goals GM set for it but the new Z06 brand no longer meets my goals. And, I just can't help but to wonder how easily GM could have surpassed my project if they applied their corporate energies to it. Perhaps the business case clearly did not support it. Fortunately for me, I do not care....
Bingo! When new, my '10 3LZ Z06 had a curb weight of 3167 lbs on the same race shop scales which now read a curb weight of 3090 lbs. Over 30 of those pounds were a reduction in unsprung weight, which supposedly are worth twice as much as sprung weight reductions. Even at the original 3167 lbs, that is a big delta from the C7 BASE Z06 at 3522 lbs and the BASE C7 Z07 tipping the scales at almost 3600 lbs - this is approaching pony car (Mustang) territory. It is not cheap to take off the lbs, but it is the gift that keeps on giving, has no effects on emissions, and noticeably improves handling and acceleration.
With power now at an emissions legal (in Va) 625 h/p and 605 lbs of torque, I feel no concerns about going head to head with a new Z that weighs at least 430 lbs more and sports 25 additional h/p. With the addition of a Pfadt Johnny O'Connell suspension and Michelin Pilot SS tires, I have no handling concerns either.
So, I have taken the course you are contemplating (reference my "Project Crystal") posts on this forum and have never regretted it. I bought my Z new at a very deep discount, and with all of my mods, probably have about $90k or so invested. I would just recommend you pursue a balanced systems approach to your project.
I am sure the new car will meet all of the goals GM set for it but the new Z06 brand no longer meets my goals. And, I just can't help but to wonder how easily GM could have surpassed my project if they applied their corporate energies to it. Perhaps the business case clearly did not support it. Fortunately for me, I do not care....
I just read your Project Crystal threads, amazing car. DIY Carbon Edition and you get to pic the color.
At least you can still order a C7Z with a stick, which is something GT3 owners can no longer do.
But the 2015 GT3 will ship at 3152 lbs. So even with an automatic it is now 4-500 lbs lighter than a Z06. Just as our Z06 is 400 lbs lighter than the C7.
To some it makes no difference to others it is a deal killer.
I owned 6 different Fourth Gen Camaros (only selling two of them this year) but have never even considered buying the Fifth Gen as it is 800 lbs heavier. Some like em fat and some like em light.
I am thinking with the added technology the car will be a very stout performer irrespective of the weight. They may be looking for a more mass market niche as per the a/t and vert options but before we choke on the weight we need to see the performance numbers.
No evidence yet but I am also thinking from this there may be a more track oriented version of the C7 yet to come, more like the original GS and ZR1 cars rather than just tieing old limited edition race car designations to heavily op0tioned new cars for marketing. Only hopefully not at a much higher pricepoint.
GM offered the LS7 in a convertible and automatic in 2013, and sold 5X more than the previous year's Z06. That's all you need to know about why the C7Z is what it is. That, and a 427 gas-guzzler is no longer PC at Government Motors.
I just read your Project Crystal threads, amazing car. DIY Carbon Edition and you get to pic the color.
Thanks. Actually the Carbon Z's were my original inspiration, GM took the Z06 concept a step further. I decided to take my project a few steps beyond the Carbon Z. Make a light car lighter, a powerful N/A more powerful yet streetable and emissions legal where I live, make a track oriented car a better handler...
I remember the Carbon Z's had an MSRP of around $100k. Interesting that the new base C7 Z is rumored to start in the low 80's. Why? My take is because it is a lot cheaper to add a blower to the LT1, plus bigger wheels/brakes and still make a healthy profit.
Again in terms of a business case and the green eye-shade group at GM, this is a potential marketing win for a business that has had (and still with tens of millions of recalls this year) has an even more urgent bottom line agenda than ever before. I am sure if I were a stock holder or board member, I would agree.
As someone who really appreciated the focus of prior Z06's, I have a different perspective. Someone who is a very respected journalist with Road & Track (R&T) Peter Egan, authored a comprehensive test of the entire Corvette line-up in the April 2012 magazine. All six R&T drivers liked the Z06 best, commenting that even though the ZR1 was only about 100 lbs heavier, it was very noticeable. Quoted below from the article:
"To our staffers though, the Z06 was the do everything king. It's a stunning achievement for Chevrolet to have built a sports car with this level of extreme performance - second to none in the world - that's a near perfect track car and also such a pleasant everyday driver."
The Z06 simply didn't sell well (especially after the launch of the ZR1 and GS), regardless of why you bought it.
or it was selling slow because it's ~7 years since its introduction and a new one is around the corner. also, LS7 valve debacle. but mostly, the former.
Mark Reuss stated that the Corvette makes just as much money as GMs top profit models. They would not be selling them if they did not make money...and if they did loose money on the C6Z, they would not be building a C7Z. Another thing to add is that the C6Z was built around their race car, which has millions in R&D cash. I do agree that the new Z is tailored to its customers now and not as focused on the race development as C6Z. I don't care if that thing weighs 5000 lbs, she will be mine...ohh yes...she will be mine. Even if she does loose to a 400 lb heavier GT-R with 70 less hp, I will still love her fat ***.
Just as a side note, I remember something I read a while ago stating 10 hp is pretty equal to 100 lbs in a straight line, so a C6Z with 600 hp will be a close match in a drag...but the interior still sucks.
You're behind the times. The Treasury sold the remaining shares some time ago.
Yeah, I'm a trader and I'm well aware of that, as well as the crushing losses the taxpayers suffered, while UAW was enriched. But that doesn't mean the crony capitalist culture there created by the Obailout has changed.
CAFE standards get stricter every year. All automakers are under the diktats of the EPA, and to a large degree, CARB (California Air Resources Board), due to the number of cars sold in Kalifornia.
If you want to see the future of high performance cars in the modern ecowacko regulatory environment, it's forced induction and hybrid, not N/A.
Yeah, I'm a trader and I'm well aware of that, as well as the crushing losses the taxpayers suffered, while UAW was enriched. But that doesn't mean the crony capitalist culture there created by the Obailout has changed.
CAFE standards get stricter every year. All automakers are under the diktats of the EPA, and to a large degree, CARB (California Air Resources Board), due to the number of cars sold in Kalifornia.
If you want to see the future of high performance cars in the modern ecowacko regulatory environment, it's forced induction and hybrid, not N/A.
Pretty much agree with what you said, run investments myself. I would add that the recent tidal wave of GM recalls, especially with the open checkbook they agreed to re the ignition switch cover-up may have severe consequences to GM's immediate financial stability.
Yes, the future of high performance N/A power is writ in large red letters. Recently, I read that even Ferrari has stated that they have gone as far as they can with N/A given the regulatory climate.
Definitely a change in direction from Dave Hill's chief engineer days when they fought to remove every extra pound from the C5 and C6. This is covered well in the book "All Corvettes are Red".
I don't mind the extra weight as long as it's sound deader. Once I get my super charger on I'm going to sound proof the crap out of my Z. Really has a lot of road noise. I'm a little spoiled, my daily driver is a Lexus EX 350. Even my F150 is quieter on the road.
If you are going to do that, then can I ask why you even bought a Z and not a GS?
I agree with those that the Z is a 'lightweight' purpose built car and I'm actually looking to pull as much (or as little) sound deadening as my 06 has. I'll likely replace all the carpet with something that closer resembles black speaker cabinet covering, etc. And while the AC is still in the car, I've never used it any my C5 had the AC delete mod also. Between the AC and the sound/carpets there was over 100lbs there.
I guess I'm one of those that doesn't understand weight GAIN in a PERFORMANCE supercar.
Yeah, I'm a trader and I'm well aware of that, as well as the crushing losses the taxpayers suffered, while UAW was enriched. But that doesn't mean the crony capitalist culture there created by the Obailout has changed.
CAFE standards get stricter every year. All automakers are under the diktats of the EPA, and to a large degree, CARB (California Air Resources Board), due to the number of cars sold in Kalifornia.
If you want to see the future of high performance cars in the modern ecowacko regulatory environment, it's forced induction and hybrid, not N/A.
Do we have to have a good debate about the C7Z polluted with political bullsh-t?
I am thinking with the added technology the car will be a very stout performer irrespective of the weight. They may be looking for a more mass market niche as per the a/t and vert options but before we choke on the weight we need to see the performance numbers.
No evidence yet but I am also thinking from this there may be a more track oriented version of the C7 yet to come, more like the original GS and ZR1 cars rather than just tieing old limited edition race car designations to heavily op0tioned new cars for marketing. Only hopefully not at a much higher pricepoint.
In all fairness most owners will not notice the weight gain, given the performance, handling and power.
Weight (or placement of weight) is important at the drag strip, but can be overcome by more power. On the street weight actually can make the car feel more stable to the ordinary driver. Even in an HPDE the cars are seldom run hard enough to get into serious tire or brake overheating issues. It is only in W2W racing that you see enough laps taken fast enough to realize that 200 lbs is the difference between a podium and a back marker. Extra weight just adds heat and heat destroys tires and brakes very quickly.
So for many the increase in Power is the main win and the increase in weight will make little difference. I no longer have a race car or a current competition license, so I suppose my desire for a featherweight car is simply an old man remembering the "good ole days..." but I do still have a natural aversion to heavy cars.
08-18-2014, 04:01 PM
DIY Carbon Edition and you get to pic the color. 
Pretty much agree with what you said, run investments myself. I would add that the recent tidal wave of GM recalls, especially with the open checkbook they agreed to re the ignition switch cover-up may have severe consequences to GM's immediate financial stability.
