[Z06] WCCH and oil consumption.
07-27-2014, 06:23 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
WCCH and oil consumption.
OK so I am pulling into the parking garage last night after a car show and cruise and I notice that my OIL TEMP is at 176. (Usually it is 200 plus after those activities, but we got rained out.) I am very meticulous about every fluid, tire pressure etc... So I figured that I might as well check the oil. WOW. It reads just about 1/2" inch above the end of the dip stick, which is about 1" below the bottom hole of the three holes on the cross hatched area. (If linear, IMO I am about two quarts low.) I was pretty surprised because I always start out completely full, at the very top hole. Yes I check it correctly.
I will say that I drive spiritedly and that my car (07' with 13,000 miles. H/C for 2,500 miles.) has always seemed to consume a fair amount of oil. Even before the H/C a very reputable shop told me that 1/2 qt every 3K miles is very normal. However, this is two quarts in about 2,300 miles. Also, my EE catch can has an easy two ounces and IIRC I have already emptied it once. I am not worried, just sharing my oil consumption observations. Been using Redline oil since the H/C swap.
As you know, these cars are far from green and mine is even worse (or better) than most. Off road headers, TORQUER 110 yada, yada, yada. Put it this way, if I let it warm up with the windows down in the garage I smell like gas and oil. I usually get 9.6 average fuel economy and I wouldn't have it any other way. YMMV
No leaks and no smoke at any time BTW.
I will say that I drive spiritedly and that my car (07' with 13,000 miles. H/C for 2,500 miles.) has always seemed to consume a fair amount of oil. Even before the H/C a very reputable shop told me that 1/2 qt every 3K miles is very normal. However, this is two quarts in about 2,300 miles. Also, my EE catch can has an easy two ounces and IIRC I have already emptied it once. I am not worried, just sharing my oil consumption observations. Been using Redline oil since the H/C swap.
As you know, these cars are far from green and mine is even worse (or better) than most. Off road headers, TORQUER 110 yada, yada, yada. Put it this way, if I let it warm up with the windows down in the garage I smell like gas and oil. I usually get 9.6 average fuel economy and I wouldn't have it any other way. YMMV
No leaks and no smoke at any time BTW.
07-28-2014, 08:06 AM
#3
OK so I am pulling into the parking garage last night after a car show and cruise and I notice that my OIL TEMP is at 176. (Usually it is 200 plus after those activities, but we got rained out.) I am very meticulous about every fluid, tire pressure etc... So I figured that I might as well check the oil. WOW. It reads just about 1/2" inch above the end of the dip stick, which is about 1" below the bottom hole of the three holes on the cross hatched area. (If linear, IMO I am about two quarts low.) I was pretty surprised because I always start out completely full, at the very top hole. Yes I check it correctly.
I will say that I drive spiritedly and that my car (07' with 13,000 miles. H/C for 2,500 miles.) has always seemed to consume a fair amount of oil. Even before the H/C a very reputable shop told me that 1/2 qt every 3K miles is very normal. However, this is two quarts in about 2,300 miles. Also, my EE catch can has an easy two ounces and IIRC I have already emptied it once. I am not worried, just sharing my oil consumption observations. Been using Redline oil since the H/C swap.
As you know, these cars are far from green and mine is even worse (or better) than most. Off road headers, TORQUER 110 yada, yada, yada. Put it this way, if I let it warm up with the windows down in the garage I smell like gas and oil. I usually get 9.6 average fuel economy and I wouldn't have it any other way. YMMV
No leaks and no smoke at any time BTW.
I will say that I drive spiritedly and that my car (07' with 13,000 miles. H/C for 2,500 miles.) has always seemed to consume a fair amount of oil. Even before the H/C a very reputable shop told me that 1/2 qt every 3K miles is very normal. However, this is two quarts in about 2,300 miles. Also, my EE catch can has an easy two ounces and IIRC I have already emptied it once. I am not worried, just sharing my oil consumption observations. Been using Redline oil since the H/C swap.
As you know, these cars are far from green and mine is even worse (or better) than most. Off road headers, TORQUER 110 yada, yada, yada. Put it this way, if I let it warm up with the windows down in the garage I smell like gas and oil. I usually get 9.6 average fuel economy and I wouldn't have it any other way. YMMV
No leaks and no smoke at any time BTW.
07-28-2014, 09:45 AM
#4
Well the oil is going somewhere...... If you do not see any leaks, then it is being ingested. You are going through too much. I would buy yourself a leak down tester, and while testing leak down, pull a couple valve springs, throw a mic on the valves and check for movement. You'll find your answer soon enough.
07-28-2014, 04:36 PM
#5
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Definitely not the norm. My 07 has 101,000 miles, 12,000 miles with H/C, and I don't have to add any oil between 4K mile oil changes. At 88K 75% of the cross hatching was still present on the cylinder walls.
07-29-2014, 09:49 PM
#6
I had a new motor put in with those heads and the first 700 miles it was using a ton of oil and smelled ,no smoke but I've never see unseated rings use that much oil and it just stopped using any oil one day(thank god) I was freaking out .no way it was just rings seating,at least I've never seen a rebuilt motor use 1qt every 200 miles .
07-30-2014, 02:49 PM
#7
Burning Brakes
Well the oil is going somewhere...... If you do not see any leaks, then it is being ingested. You are going through too much. I would buy yourself a leak down tester, and while testing leak down, pull a couple valve springs, throw a mic on the valves and check for movement. You'll find your answer soon enough.
What type of valves/guides are you running in your WCCH heads?
07-30-2014, 03:34 PM
#8
Melting Slicks
BTW, I trust this one has been "counted", wouldn't want any to get missed
Cheers, Paul.
07-30-2014, 04:08 PM
#9
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OK so I am pulling into the parking garage last night after a car show and cruise and I notice that my OIL TEMP is at 176. (Usually it is 200 plus after those activities, but we got rained out.) I am very meticulous about every fluid, tire pressure etc... So I figured that I might as well check the oil. WOW. It reads just about 1/2" inch above the end of the dip stick, which is about 1" below the bottom hole of the three holes on the cross hatched area. (If linear, IMO I am about two quarts low.) I was pretty surprised because I always start out completely full, at the very top hole. Yes I check it correctly.
I will say that I drive spiritedly and that my car (07' with 13,000 miles. H/C for 2,500 miles.) has always seemed to consume a fair amount of oil. Even before the H/C a very reputable shop told me that 1/2 qt every 3K miles is very normal. However, this is two quarts in about 2,300 miles. Also, my EE catch can has an easy two ounces and IIRC I have already emptied it once. I am not worried, just sharing my oil consumption observations. Been using Redline oil since the H/C swap.
As you know, these cars are far from green and mine is even worse (or better) than most. Off road headers, TORQUER 110 yada, yada, yada. Put it this way, if I let it warm up with the windows down in the garage I smell like gas and oil. I usually get 9.6 average fuel economy and I wouldn't have it any other way. YMMV
No leaks and no smoke at any time BTW.
I will say that I drive spiritedly and that my car (07' with 13,000 miles. H/C for 2,500 miles.) has always seemed to consume a fair amount of oil. Even before the H/C a very reputable shop told me that 1/2 qt every 3K miles is very normal. However, this is two quarts in about 2,300 miles. Also, my EE catch can has an easy two ounces and IIRC I have already emptied it once. I am not worried, just sharing my oil consumption observations. Been using Redline oil since the H/C swap.
As you know, these cars are far from green and mine is even worse (or better) than most. Off road headers, TORQUER 110 yada, yada, yada. Put it this way, if I let it warm up with the windows down in the garage I smell like gas and oil. I usually get 9.6 average fuel economy and I wouldn't have it any other way. YMMV
No leaks and no smoke at any time BTW.
Well the oil is going somewhere...... If you do not see any leaks, then it is being ingested. You are going through too much. I would buy yourself a leak down tester, and while testing leak down, pull a couple valve springs, throw a mic on the valves and check for movement. You'll find your answer soon enough.
07-30-2014, 05:35 PM
#10
Melting Slicks
I doubt you can consume that much oil through the guides. I would recommend a Leak-Down test on each cylinder. A leak down test will help you isolate where the cylinder is leaking and how much.
Some questions for you to investigate:
Who did the head R&R? How careful were they to remove all the foreign material from the cylinders after cleaning the deck surface? A little Sctoch Brite left above the top rings can be very abrasive.
What did the cylinder walls look like with the piston at bottom dead center? They should look like a perfect crosshatch with no vertical scratches.
Was all the coolant removed from the cylinders and oil or lubricant reapplied to the cylinder walls? Coolant can damage the ring seal and/or corrode the cylinder walls.
Best of luck!
Some questions for you to investigate:
Who did the head R&R? How careful were they to remove all the foreign material from the cylinders after cleaning the deck surface? A little Sctoch Brite left above the top rings can be very abrasive.
What did the cylinder walls look like with the piston at bottom dead center? They should look like a perfect crosshatch with no vertical scratches.
Was all the coolant removed from the cylinders and oil or lubricant reapplied to the cylinder walls? Coolant can damage the ring seal and/or corrode the cylinder walls.
Best of luck!
Last edited by Vito.A; 07-30-2014 at 05:41 PM.
07-30-2014, 07:12 PM
#11
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You can consume alot of oil through worn out guides without noticing any smoke.
Michael D had a good rec for you... Leak down and wiggle test, should tell you where you issue is.
Michael D had a good rec for you... Leak down and wiggle test, should tell you where you issue is.
07-30-2014, 07:17 PM
#12
I have found the dipstick to be very odd with how it reads time to time even after letting get up to temp and waiting 5 min or so before reading it. Also with heads and cam you may have a lot of oil in the intake right now. Take your TB off and have a look inside the intake. I have seen guys with pools of oil in there. This is due to the crappy oil system and oil getting by the rings because of flutter and reversion in general which is normal and needed. But I am talking about excessive amounts because of the major increase in crank case pressure as a result of making a lot more power. This issue was discussed at length with me by my installer who has seen this thing go on for years with the LS7 and a lot of guys put catch cans to keep oil from building up in the intake but this is not a fix at all. He begged me to buy a Vaccu pump after seeing so many issues and what the vaccu pump can do to eliminate it. I did and after 2 months of hard driving I popped my TB off last weekend and the only oil in their is a small amount from reversion and most of the intake is still totally bone dry. The last LS7 heads and cam car he did the guy refused to buy the pump and after a month of driving they took the intake off to replace with a FAST and oil literally cam pouring out of the TB opening. I am willing to bet you are losing a fair amount this way, and if you are not then it is getting burned up in the cylinder or lost to a leak someplace.
With my car on the dyno we hooked a vaccum gauge to it via the Superflow dyno hook up so the vaccum can be charted across the rpm range and instead of seeing positive crank pressure we saw 3-6in of vaccum which is great.
To put it simply the stock Hybrid dry sump is not very good, it has poor scavenge ability and the pump spins at the same speed as the engine which is bad. Real dry sump pumps are not 1:1. They are high volume at half speed so no cavitation is created and no oil foaming.
With my car on the dyno we hooked a vaccum gauge to it via the Superflow dyno hook up so the vaccum can be charted across the rpm range and instead of seeing positive crank pressure we saw 3-6in of vaccum which is great.
To put it simply the stock Hybrid dry sump is not very good, it has poor scavenge ability and the pump spins at the same speed as the engine which is bad. Real dry sump pumps are not 1:1. They are high volume at half speed so no cavitation is created and no oil foaming.
07-30-2014, 09:56 PM
#13
^^^ I believe that to be a very good analysis of the situation in general. I'd be interested what they're doing on the various race cars with the crankcase pressure situation, assuming they are not rule-bound (a vacuum pump seems to be a fairly inexpensive fix, but caution must be employed in their application).
08-01-2014, 01:42 AM
#14
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Thank you all for the replies. I wish I could think of an analogy that demonstrates just how difficult it is to get competent work done on my car here in Hawaii. Like building a snow man in FL during the summer months? Anyway, the shop that initially did all the work of my Trailblazer SS and then my Corvette has changed owners. Not a chance in hell, I will be going to see the new owner. The Chevy dealer is friendly and I have a friendship with the service manager there, but they will probably scratch the hood completing a leak down test. Forcing me to DIY. (DIM?) Anyway, I'll check into seeing how to perform a leak down test because right now I have NO IDEA.
Honestly, I am over it I just want to drive it a few times a month. Definitely do not feel like beating the dead horse of checking this and checking that. 9.6 mpg's at $4.60/gallon I have been spending a lot of time on my Ducati anyway.
If I figure it out, I will let you all know. That or just drive it into the ground. At 2K miles per year, it may take a while.
Honestly, I am over it I just want to drive it a few times a month. Definitely do not feel like beating the dead horse of checking this and checking that. 9.6 mpg's at $4.60/gallon I have been spending a lot of time on my Ducati anyway.
If I figure it out, I will let you all know. That or just drive it into the ground. At 2K miles per year, it may take a while.
08-01-2014, 02:21 AM
#15
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Thank you all for the replies. I wish I could think of an analogy that demonstrates just how difficult it is to get competent work done on my car here in Hawaii. Like building a snow man in FL during the summer months? Anyway, the shop that initially did all the work of my Trailblazer SS and then my Corvette has changed owners. Not a chance in hell, I will be going to see the new owner. The Chevy dealer is friendly and I have a friendship with the service manager there, but they will probably scratch the hood completing a leak down test. Forcing me to DIY. (DIM?) Anyway, I'll check into seeing how to perform a leak down test because right now I have NO IDEA.
Honestly, I am over it I just want to drive it a few times a month. Definitely do not feel like beating the dead horse of checking this and checking that. 9.6 mpg's at $4.60/gallon I have been spending a lot of time on my Ducati anyway.
If I figure it out, I will let you all know. That or just drive it into the ground. At 2K miles per year, it may take a while.
Honestly, I am over it I just want to drive it a few times a month. Definitely do not feel like beating the dead horse of checking this and checking that. 9.6 mpg's at $4.60/gallon I have been spending a lot of time on my Ducati anyway.
If I figure it out, I will let you all know. That or just drive it into the ground. At 2K miles per year, it may take a while.
We have a sticky for the Wiggle test:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...-test-diy.html this will get you all the way through the leak down test as well. I know the sticky is for the wiggle test but its the same basic procedure for a leak down test. You will need to be competent and have some specialty tools.
I love Hawaii, One of the best places on earth!
08-01-2014, 02:59 AM
#16
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Thanks American Heritage. There is good reason why you have a great reputation on this forum. Hawaii is a great place, no question.
I have taken my valve covers off twice. The first time was to perform johng_46's (sp) witness mark test. (I do not remember specifically what he called it.) The second was to install the Comp Cams trunnion upgrade.
If I take them off again, it won't be for a while. I don't mind maintenance and I understand that high performance machines require more maintenance than normal, but like I typed earlier, I am over it for now.
I have taken my valve covers off twice. The first time was to perform johng_46's (sp) witness mark test. (I do not remember specifically what he called it.) The second was to install the Comp Cams trunnion upgrade.
If I take them off again, it won't be for a while. I don't mind maintenance and I understand that high performance machines require more maintenance than normal, but like I typed earlier, I am over it for now.