[Z06] My Experience With "Cam Motion", Great Alternative To Comp
03-24-2014, 06:31 PM
#1
Safety Car
Thread Starter
My Experience With "Cam Motion", Great Alternative To Comp
I have had somewhat of an obsession with cam design over the years and I have always read about the two main players Comp and Crane, lets face it that is all anyone here talks about. I am here to tell you that I am completely sold on Cam Motion and so it Patrick G, Geoff at EPS, and Brian Tooley. These guys are the Godfathers of LS cam design and they are switching to Cam Motion.
My experience with Comp customer service is usually about a 10 minute wait to talk to a tech that I know more about his lobes than he does and they just don't seem to care to spend much time going over your needs. I left a message for the owner Kip at Cam Motion and he spent 45 minutes on a Saturday discussing my build in detail.
Both he and Brian Tooley (formerly of Trick Flow) said they have spent countless hours on the spintron and dyno testing (and more important real world results) showing how slower, more controlled ramps produce better power and torque than many of these fast ramping lobes that destroy your valve train! His lobes are smoother, quieter, and perform better! Cam Motion also uses a better grade of heat treated steel than Comp.
Any of you guys from the LS1 Forum know who Geoff and Patrick G are and there years of cam design and they are completely sold on these lobes. Kip will design your cam based on your engine not a one size fits all mentality. He looks at CI, rocker ratio, SCR, street or track, and makes the cam based off of your criteria. I just wanted to post to let everyone know there are other options in cam lobe design. Like most on this forum, I didn't even know about Cam Motion a month ago.
On a side note, if anyone here needs help with their build or where to send their heads to be re worked there are two guys that I have spoken to in the last 2 weeks that don't get mentioned much here, but I have been so impressed with these guys and will only work with them because of their customer service, knowledge and attention to detail is Brian Tooley of BTR and Charlie at RPM Motors. Both of these guys are top notch and they will spend the time with you to build your engine the right way. Just wanted to share my great experience with these guys.
My experience with Comp customer service is usually about a 10 minute wait to talk to a tech that I know more about his lobes than he does and they just don't seem to care to spend much time going over your needs. I left a message for the owner Kip at Cam Motion and he spent 45 minutes on a Saturday discussing my build in detail.
Both he and Brian Tooley (formerly of Trick Flow) said they have spent countless hours on the spintron and dyno testing (and more important real world results) showing how slower, more controlled ramps produce better power and torque than many of these fast ramping lobes that destroy your valve train! His lobes are smoother, quieter, and perform better! Cam Motion also uses a better grade of heat treated steel than Comp.
Any of you guys from the LS1 Forum know who Geoff and Patrick G are and there years of cam design and they are completely sold on these lobes. Kip will design your cam based on your engine not a one size fits all mentality. He looks at CI, rocker ratio, SCR, street or track, and makes the cam based off of your criteria. I just wanted to post to let everyone know there are other options in cam lobe design. Like most on this forum, I didn't even know about Cam Motion a month ago.
On a side note, if anyone here needs help with their build or where to send their heads to be re worked there are two guys that I have spoken to in the last 2 weeks that don't get mentioned much here, but I have been so impressed with these guys and will only work with them because of their customer service, knowledge and attention to detail is Brian Tooley of BTR and Charlie at RPM Motors. Both of these guys are top notch and they will spend the time with you to build your engine the right way. Just wanted to share my great experience with these guys.
03-24-2014, 09:09 PM
#5
Safety Car
Kip is a great guy to deal with. If anyone is looking for stable, yet powerful designs, Kip is the one.
If you've read about the EPS lobes, Cam Motion has very similar lobes. Cam Motion also uses better material for their blanks as opposed to Comp.
It's funny that this thread is here because Kip just helped me out of a jam today.
If you've read about the EPS lobes, Cam Motion has very similar lobes. Cam Motion also uses better material for their blanks as opposed to Comp.
It's funny that this thread is here because Kip just helped me out of a jam today.
03-25-2014, 08:51 AM
#9
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Dec 2009
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I have had somewhat of an obsession with cam design over the years and I have always read about the two main players Comp and Crane, lets face it that is all anyone here talks about. I am here to tell you that I am completely sold on Cam Motion and so it Patrick G, Geoff at EPS, and Brian Tooley. These guys are the Godfathers of LS cam design and they are switching to Cam Motion.
My experience with Comp customer service is usually about a 10 minute wait to talk to a tech that I know more about his lobes than he does and they just don't seem to care to spend much time going over your needs. I left a message for the owner Kip at Cam Motion and he spent 45 minutes on a Saturday discussing my build in detail.
Both he and Brian Tooley (formerly of Trick Flow) said they have spent countless hours on the spintron and dyno testing (and more important real world results) showing how slower, more controlled ramps produce better power and torque than many of these fast ramping lobes that destroy your valve train! His lobes are smoother, quieter, and perform better! Cam Motion also uses a better grade of heat treated steel than Comp.
Any of you guys from the LS1 Forum know who Geoff and Patrick G are and there years of cam design and they are completely sold on these lobes. Kip will design your cam based on your engine not a one size fits all mentality. He looks at CI, rocker ratio, SCR, street or track, and makes the cam based off of your criteria. I just wanted to post to let everyone know there are other options in cam lobe design. Like most on this forum, I didn't even know about Cam Motion a month ago.
On a side note, if anyone here needs help with their build or where to send their heads to be re worked there are two guys that I have spoken to in the last 2 weeks that don't get mentioned much here, but I have been so impressed with these guys and will only work with them because of their customer service, knowledge and attention to detail is Brian Tooley of BTR and Charlie at RPM Motors. Both of these guys are top notch and they will spend the time with you to build your engine the right way. Just wanted to share my great experience with these guys.
My experience with Comp customer service is usually about a 10 minute wait to talk to a tech that I know more about his lobes than he does and they just don't seem to care to spend much time going over your needs. I left a message for the owner Kip at Cam Motion and he spent 45 minutes on a Saturday discussing my build in detail.
Both he and Brian Tooley (formerly of Trick Flow) said they have spent countless hours on the spintron and dyno testing (and more important real world results) showing how slower, more controlled ramps produce better power and torque than many of these fast ramping lobes that destroy your valve train! His lobes are smoother, quieter, and perform better! Cam Motion also uses a better grade of heat treated steel than Comp.
Any of you guys from the LS1 Forum know who Geoff and Patrick G are and there years of cam design and they are completely sold on these lobes. Kip will design your cam based on your engine not a one size fits all mentality. He looks at CI, rocker ratio, SCR, street or track, and makes the cam based off of your criteria. I just wanted to post to let everyone know there are other options in cam lobe design. Like most on this forum, I didn't even know about Cam Motion a month ago.
On a side note, if anyone here needs help with their build or where to send their heads to be re worked there are two guys that I have spoken to in the last 2 weeks that don't get mentioned much here, but I have been so impressed with these guys and will only work with them because of their customer service, knowledge and attention to detail is Brian Tooley of BTR and Charlie at RPM Motors. Both of these guys are top notch and they will spend the time with you to build your engine the right way. Just wanted to share my great experience with these guys.
If the CM cams are not one size fits all and have a better grade than those from Comp or Crane, I'd expect that that comes at a price. Could you tell us more about that? No need to disclose absolute price of course, but relatively?
03-25-2014, 09:25 AM
#10
So let me get this straight.... Geoff is now using Cam Motion as his grinder? Does that mean that Cam Motion is grinding the same lobes that Comp and Geoff jointly developed??
I'm trying to wrap my head around this buisness relationship.
For what it's worth, Cam Motion grinds (or at least did grind) the QM cams and Vette Air cams.
I'm trying to wrap my head around this buisness relationship.
For what it's worth, Cam Motion grinds (or at least did grind) the QM cams and Vette Air cams.
03-25-2014, 09:42 AM
#11
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Price is very competitive at $459
I know that Geoff was working with comp for a long time, as you know they made a custom lobe just for him. I have not spoken to Geoff directly but he and Patrick work hand in hand and he said this was his preferred grind. Brian Tooley said he was starting to switch his grinds over to them also.
My email from Patrick
BJ,
I would skip the Comp lobes altogether and go with some EPS lobes made by Cam Motion. The new lobes have a much more controlled opening and close that give much less sewing machine noise and are much easier on the valvetrain while still making strong power. They have .355" lobes, .370" lobes and .382" lobes. Those would be .639", .666", or .688" with a 1.8 rocker. They are made with 8620 chrome moly steel vs 5000 steel Comp uses.
If you go with ported exhaust, I would go with something more like a 224/236 .639/.639 114LSA +0 using EPS HiRev lobes. Way quieter than a Comp Cam, will have more valve control at higher rpm, and will be much kinder to your valvetrain.
Patrick Guerra
Futral has also been using CM for many years
I know that Geoff was working with comp for a long time, as you know they made a custom lobe just for him. I have not spoken to Geoff directly but he and Patrick work hand in hand and he said this was his preferred grind. Brian Tooley said he was starting to switch his grinds over to them also.
My email from Patrick
BJ,
I would skip the Comp lobes altogether and go with some EPS lobes made by Cam Motion. The new lobes have a much more controlled opening and close that give much less sewing machine noise and are much easier on the valvetrain while still making strong power. They have .355" lobes, .370" lobes and .382" lobes. Those would be .639", .666", or .688" with a 1.8 rocker. They are made with 8620 chrome moly steel vs 5000 steel Comp uses.
If you go with ported exhaust, I would go with something more like a 224/236 .639/.639 114LSA +0 using EPS HiRev lobes. Way quieter than a Comp Cam, will have more valve control at higher rpm, and will be much kinder to your valvetrain.
Patrick Guerra
Futral has also been using CM for many years
03-25-2014, 08:49 PM
#12
Safety Car
So let me get this straight.... Geoff is now using Cam Motion as his grinder? Does that mean that Cam Motion is grinding the same lobes that Comp and Geoff jointly developed??
I'm trying to wrap my head around this buisness relationship.
For what it's worth, Cam Motion grinds (or at least did grind) the QM cams and Vette Air cams.
I'm trying to wrap my head around this buisness relationship.
For what it's worth, Cam Motion grinds (or at least did grind) the QM cams and Vette Air cams.
Kip from CM says he has profiles that are very very similar to the EPS profiles.
Can Motion sells direct, expect about $440 for a cam.
For what it's worth, I spoke with Kip yesterday about a delay thru a vender, going on 6 weeks,
Kip ground the cam and it was delivered this morning. Pretty awesome!
03-25-2014, 09:18 PM
#13
Team Owner
03-25-2014, 10:21 PM
#14
No, the Cam Motion cams from EPS were developed by CM and EPS. EPS still does Comp cams as well.
Kip from CM says he has profiles that are very very similar to the EPS profiles.
Can Motion sells direct, expect about $440 for a cam.
For what it's worth, I spoke with Kip yesterday about a delay thru a vender, going on 6 weeks,Kip ground the cam and it was delivered this morning. Pretty awesome!
Kip from CM says he has profiles that are very very similar to the EPS profiles.
Can Motion sells direct, expect about $440 for a cam.
For what it's worth, I spoke with Kip yesterday about a delay thru a vender, going on 6 weeks,
Kip ground the cam and it was delivered this morning. Pretty awesome!While we are BS'ing about cam grinders other than Comp, there was about a ten year stretch when I had Dave Crower on speed dial. I used nothing but Crower for my camshafts. Don't ever hear much about them lately.
Another guy I used for some exotic builds was Steve Lowe. He was wayyyyy ahead of his time in the 90's (probably still is). Killer blocks too. You had to get on a wait list to buy stuff from him. http://www.lsmeng.com/Camshafts.html
03-26-2014, 08:59 AM
#15
Burning Brakes
Any idea what sort of power gains this cam would produce?
03-26-2014, 09:44 AM
#16
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Sorry I should have been more specific, I didn't mean to sound like they were no longer using comp lobes just that CM was now their preferred vendor.
Speaking with Brian Tooley about cam design, port velocity, and valve train stability the way he described it through years of spintron, dyno, and real world testing is that valve stability is vital not only to saving your valve train but for making power too.
He said that he has taken the same cam with the same duration and LSA, one with fast ramping lobes and one with slower, controlled lobes and he always made more power with the controlled lobes.
Speaking with Brian Tooley about cam design, port velocity, and valve train stability the way he described it through years of spintron, dyno, and real world testing is that valve stability is vital not only to saving your valve train but for making power too.
He said that he has taken the same cam with the same duration and LSA, one with fast ramping lobes and one with slower, controlled lobes and he always made more power with the controlled lobes.
03-26-2014, 11:17 AM
#17
Team Owner
Did he give any idea on how long your valve springs should last with that cam? Or any suggestions on how often they should be checked?
03-26-2014, 11:27 AM
#18
Safety Car
Thread Starter
No he just said each cam is different they just design softer lobes that keep the valve controlled, it depends on valve lift, seat pressure, brand of spring, will determine how long it will last.
03-27-2014, 07:04 PM
#19
Pro
03-28-2014, 01:37 PM
#20
Team Owner