Originally Posted by jimman

Has anyone sent in their heads with measured wear and received the original heads back with their fix. Did they identify where the side load was coming from and was it corrected. I keep reading the fix and only the mention of the bonze guides and SS valves. When you change more than one variable how do you arrive at a single part error determination? Also again for the zillionth time the OEM guides have copper in the mix giving the same thermals as bronze with a greater wear factor do to hardness.

Originally Posted by Undy

Sort of a cheap shot, don't you think?? Posts like this would cause me to AVOID doing business with you. BTW... I've never done business with WCCH either.

Originally Posted by '06 Quicksilver Z06

For many of us, yes it is good to see videos like that one.

For others of us, it's a huge disappointment.


Oh, and Howie, don't sweat it, because many in here appreciate your videos.

At least you aren't claiming bone stock when you're not.

Have a look at what is referred to as bone stock.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...fast-list.html

I was co admin of that list back in 2007 when it was put it together, indeed, it was put together at my suggestion and Ranger, knowing that at that time I was making the initial passes in my own car, recommended that the listing be modeled along the C5 Z06 Fast List, and his is the first post in it outlining the rules.

On a side note, I still recall his early attempts to get his driving dialed in.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...-125-69-a.html

We kept that listing for years, I was running my own car in Western PA, him at MIR, Capitol, and occasionally at ATCO. He was setting records, I like many other new owners back then, was just learning, I recall his advice and encouragement though.

I would make the updates and additions to "The C6 Z06 Fast List" each time a member wanted added to it, and checking across this forum for prior posts and even other internet forums to determine the authenticity of bone stock claims. When I first saw some of the present day or more recent claims, I tended to think that it was 4.10 gears. These were unlikely back then, if not impossible, as I think that RPM transmissions was among the first to make them available around 2010 or 2011. But today I still would not put that past some of the claims made now, as they became available for the Z06 well after the start of that listing. But there are other methods as well.

I busted people all the time making bogus bone stock claims.

Let's just say, that to the letter of those rules conceived back then and still in effect to this day, "engine balancing" doesn't apply as showroom stock or bone stock.

For those who want to know what engine balancing is, and work on the short block is, and why it's not bone stock, and what advantages it offers what it entails, I encourage you to look it up.

But it is good to see that there is a hotshoe from hell amongst us.

Take a look at the link I sent you.

Anybody else wants to see it PM me.

Oh, and while I was admin of that listing, I never expected it to, but that work, made it all the way to Wixom.

Take a look:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-c...ld-center.html

Originally Posted by American Heritage

That was not my intention.
We do believe (due to personal experiences/lessons, ect...) that our aftermarket PM valve guides are the way to go. We truly do believe that they are superior.
Also Propain is correct, as a paying sponsor it does get old hearing everyone just repeater the same thing over and over weather from their own personal experience or just repeating that of others (which is sometimes the case on any internet forum). The point of my post was not to upset or turn away potential clients/customers but to let others know that there are other shops capable of working on LS7 heads with very successful results.

Originally Posted by Mark200X

Well, Howie, you don't know if it is true or not. Testimonials, such as those you have given on this issue repeatedly, are not scientific or engineering fact.


Now this is what we call a testimonial. It has no basis in scientific or engineering fact. All it means is that Howie hasn't blown up his engine yet.

Curious as to the validity of his claim, I took a look at one of his data-overlaid track videos. Each lap was mostly run in 3rd gear between about 3500-5200 RPM, with a couple short bursts up to about 6100 RPM (in 3rd), a start-finish line crossing at 6200 RPM in 4th, and one 3-4 upshift at 6700-6800 RPM. Except for that last part (upshift) all that is not very taxing for any LS valvetrain...

Originally Posted by Dirty Howie

Well I have analyzed most, who sit back and analyze others, who actually do run on the track. And wouldn't you know it but sometimes the track dictates short shifting (although most would not consider 6800 rpm short shifting). Sometimes when you are looking to set up for a long high speed sweeper you can't watch your tach to see if you have squeezed the last 200rpm out of it. Now I hope these same couch racers watch my video from ACS where there are 3 straight aways (two second gear shifts and one third gear shift) with no eminent turns where you can actually watch your tach and run it right up to redline


DH

Originally Posted by Coach62

I have no desire to push my car to the limits at track events, just no reason unless big $$$ are involved.

I've considered adding an aftermarket rev limiter that I could turn on at track events to limit the accidental redline runs, since as you say you really can't look down at your tach going into a corner.

Originally Posted by Coach62

And seriously, can't we get over the cheap shots and personal attacks? I respect everyone's opinion on this, I just don't see why we can't express it without the insults. I disagree with some here as to the best method of repair, but at this point we don't know who's right here.

Personally, I went the WCCH with OEM valves based on my research. I also know another method may come along that is superior, and with time we will all learn more. Aid if I have to pull the heads again in a few years and do it all over using a different method, so what, I've saved my engine and I'm ok with that.

OK, getting off the soap box now ;-)

Originally Posted by Coach62

I have no desire to push my car to the limits at track events, just no reason unless big $$$ are involved.

I've considered adding an aftermarket rev limiter that I could turn on at track events to limit the accidental redline runs, since as you say you really can't look down at your tach going into a corner.

Originally Posted by '06 Quicksilver Z06

You can do that through tuning if you like.

If you have your own copy of HP Tuners, you can load a tune with a lower rev limit if you want, and then go back to your current tune with your rev limiter set where it currently is.

Originally Posted by Coach62

Thanks, I'm aware of that and I don't have HP tuners. My thought was that I could adjust down for track, then back up for a dragstrip as needed.

I was thinking about a launch controller / rev limiter but getting my own copy of HP Tuners isn't a bad idea either. I do want to get a launch controller at some point and I know that some have a rev limiter built in.

Originally Posted by American Heritage

That was not my intention.
We do believe (due to personal experiences/lessons, ect...) that our aftermarket PM valve guides are the way to go. We truly do believe that they are superior.
Also Propain is correct, as a paying sponsor it does get old hearing everyone just repeater the same thing over and over weather from their own personal experience or just repeating that of others (which is sometimes the case on any internet forum). The point of my post was not to upset or turn away potential clients/customers but to let others know that there are other shops capable of working on LS7 heads with very successful results.

Originally Posted by Bill Dearborn

[...] However, I also have the opinion that repeating time after time for 30 minutes at a time with oil temps in the 260 range the stress might be a lot different.

Originally Posted by Bill Dearborn

There isn't much scientific proof about your statement either. I don't claim any scientific proof about my claims because I don't really know what is taxing or not.

Originally Posted by Mark200X

Well, Howie, you don't know if it is true or not. Testimonials, such as those you have given on this issue repeatedly, are not scientific or engineering fact.


Now this is what we call a testimonial. It has no basis in scientific or engineering fact. All it means is that Howie hasn't blown up his engine yet.

Curious as to the validity of his claim, I took a look at one of his data-overlaid track videos. Each lap was mostly run in 3rd gear between about 3500-5200 RPM, with a couple short bursts up to about 6100 RPM (in 3rd), a start-finish line crossing at 6200 RPM in 4th, and one 3-4 upshift at 6700-6800 RPM. Except for that last part (upshift) all that is not very taxing for any LS valvetrain... LS1-2-3-6-7-9, so it is hardly a proof-of-concept validation for heavier valves/springs.

Nobody expects an additional 7.3 ounces of total valve weight to affect your top speed, serious valve float aside

Originally Posted by Mark200X

Howie's max oil temp after 9 laps (14 minutes) was 235F. Based on that alone I don't think he was stressing the engine too hard, but I also think that is irrelevant as to proving the long term validity of heavy valves.


I know what I saw in Howie's video was not taxing on the valvetrain, save the one 3-4 upshift at 6700-6800 RPM (per lap). I think that would be a common assessment amongst anyone that has moderate understanding of valvetrains upon viewing that video. I only pointed it out because he was touting as a proof of concept, which to me seemed to be about equal bragging about how a particular 3/4 ton pickup could pull a 4,000 lb trailer. My Dodge Dakota can pull a 4,000 lb trailer. It does not take a scientist nor engineer to assess that relationship. However, it does take one to assess the long term damage, if any, associated with the type of valvetrain modification that Howie was trying to promote.

Originally Posted by Lawdogg

I've got 5 track days on my wcch stage 2 heads with a mid size cam. .660 lift. I have hit the rev limiter on maybe a half dozen times (some on the dyno). I've run to 7000+ rpms about 150 times on the track. I know that doesn't mean much, just my experience so far. I hope the wcch shop is right about the combo.

Originally Posted by mariofromnewyork

How many LS7 heads have YOU reworked?