KLLRVET

Recently, I have not been driving my car. Work and other interests have kept my attention.

I always keep my car on a battery tender to keep it from going flat.

On occasion, the car cranks slow and wont start. It's made me nervous once or twice, but ultimately never left me stranded. Once it starts, the voltmeter acts funny for a few, showing under 13 volts for a few, and then returns to normal after a couple of miles.

On Sunday I went out for a few, and stopped for gas. Oddly, the cooling fan stayed on after I shut the car down (It never does that). When I went to leave, the car cranked slow and wouldn't start. It cranked like the battery was on the verge of totally dying. it acted like it was going to start a few times, but it would never quite catch.

I tried a few times with no luck. I called a friend to give me a jump to get home on. Just for kicks I tried once more and it started.

The dash was dead, with no gauges reporting, service engine soon light was on, service abs light was on etc. The car ran poor, but moved under its own power. Even the steering was heavy.

Once under way, i drove for a while, and decided to test if that car would restart, it did, and all but the tach started working. Voltage was at like 13.2 and would drop to 12.8ish with the AC on

Once I got it home, I tried to restart in my driveway, and it didn't want to start. I grabbed my laptop, and cleared a HOST of codes (that I didn't writ down...)

Once the codes were cleared to car started and ran perfectly.

I had the battery tested today, and its in great shop with no problems.

So, has anyone experienced this? BTW, some time ago, the car was re flashed at the dealer for some kind of charging TSB. This is a much more recent issue.

thanks in advance

Tony

KLLRVET

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...res-again.html

This seems similar to what I was seeing, but there never seemed to be a clear resolution.

ConfusedGarage

Tony,

Sounds like you could be suffering from a dying starter. Here is what happened to me:

Towards the end of last year I remember my car cranking over slowly each start, and I figure over the winter I'd replace the battery. My car had 17,000 miles at this point. The car started low and mean for as long as I can remember last year. Then this season I put a brand new battery in it before taking it on a long road rally/back road thrash upstate. At the end of the 2nd day after a real hard flog chasing my friend's ZR1, we stopped for a break. As soon as I went to restart it, nothing. Click, nothing. Battery was fine. We push started it, and it ran like crap. I was getting "service charging system" DIC messages and all. I limped it home and it actually started a few times on its own, barely. I grabbed a new starter from the dealer and installed it, all issues went away and I forgot how quickly the car used to start.

A lot of people fry the wires going into the solenoid and that freaks the car out. My wires were fine, but the starter/solenoid was dead, and that wreaks havoc on the electrical system. I even got an airbag light flash at one point before the fix. Anyway, with a new starter installed every issue went away and was all attributed to that - for me. I hope this is the same for you and wish you luck in resolving.

Also, when installing I added a DEI heat wrap and wrapped the wires in heat tape all around there too. Always do what you can to keep this stuff from melting!

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Matt

KLLRVET

The car does crank, so I'm not thinking its the starter. As a matter of fact, the starter only has about 3000 miles on it.

Im leaning towards an issues with the BCM, as I have read there is a LOT of issues with them.

KLLRVET

I think this is the direction to follow:


#09-06-03-004E: Intermittent No Crank/No Start, No Module Communication, MIL, Warning Lights, Vehicle Messages or DTCs Set by Various Control Modules - Diagnosing and Repairing Fretting Corrosion (Disconnect Affected Connector and Apply Dielectric Lubricant) - (Nov 28, 2011)

Subject:Intermittent No Crank/No Start, No Module Communication, MIL, Warning Lights, Vehicle Messages or DTCs Set by Various Control Modules – Diagnosing and Repairing Fretting Corrosion (Disconnect Affected Connector and Apply Dielectric Lubricant)

Models:2013 and Prior GM Passenger Cars and Trucks

This in RED is from the BCM replacement on a Colorado/Canyon
Important:
•The ignition switch should be in the OFF position when connecting or disconnecting the connectors to the body control module (BCM).
•Always disconnect the black body wiring harness connector FIRST and the gray instrument panel (I/P) wiring harness connector LAST.
•!Always connect the black body wiring harness connector FIRST and the gray I/P wiring harness LAST.
•Do not open the BCM housing. The module does not have any serviceable components. The module may be replaced only as an assembly.

Attention: This repair can be applied to ANY electrical connection including, but not limited to: lighting, body electrical, in-line connections, powertrain control sensors, etc. DO NOT over apply lubricant to the point where it prevents the full engagement of sealed connectors. A light coating on the terminal surfaces is sufficient to correct the condition.
This bulletin is being revised to add the 2012-2013 model years, update the information and remove the Warranty Information for Saab Models. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number
09-06-03-004D (Section 06 – Engine/Propulsion System).


Condition
Some customers may comment on any of the following conditions:

•An intermittent no crank/no start
•Intermittent malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) illumination
•Intermittent service lamp illumination
•Intermittent service message or messages being displayed
The technician may determine that he is unable to duplicate the intermittent condition.

Cause
This condition may be caused by a buildup of non-conductive insulating oxidized debris known as fretting corrosion, occurring between two electrical contact surfaces of the connection or connector. This may be caused by any of the following conditions:

•Vibration
•Thermal cycling
•Poor connection/terminal retention
•Micro motion
•A connector, component or wiring harness not properly secured resulting in movement
On low current signal circuits this condition may cause high resistance, resulting in intermittent connections.

On high current power circuits this condition may cause permanent increases in the resistance and may cause a device to become inoperative.

Representative List of Control Modules and Components

The following is only a representative list of control modules and components that may be affected by this connection or connector condition and DOES NOT include every possible module or component for every vehicle.
•Blower Control Module
•Body Control Module (BCM)
•Communication Interface Module (CIM)
•Cooling Fan Control Module
•Electronic Brake Control Module (EBCM)
•Electronic Brake and Traction Control Module (EBTCM)
•Electronic Suspension Control (ESC) Module
•Engine Control Module (ECM)
•Heating, Ventilation and Air Conditioning (HVAC) Control Module
•HVAC Actuator
•Inflatable Restraint Sensing and Diagnostic Module (SDM)
-Any AIR BAG module
-Seat Belt Lap Anchor Pretensioner
-Seat Belt Retractor Pretensioner
-An SIR system connection or connector condition resulting in the following DTCs being set: B0015, B0016, B0019, B0020, B0022, or B0023
•Powertrain Control Module (PCM)
•Remote Control Door Lock Receiver (RCDLR)
•Transmission Control Module (TCM)


Correction

Important: DO NOT replace the control module, wiring or component for the following conditions:
•The condition is intermittent and cannot be duplicated.
•The condition is present and by disconnecting and reconnecting the connector the condition can no longer be duplicated.
Use the following procedure to correct either of the conditions listed above.

1.Install a scan tool and perform the Diagnostic System Check – Vehicle. Retrieve and record any existing History, Current, Passed and Failed and Failed Current DTCs from all of the control modules.
⇒ If any DTCs are set, refer to Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) List – Vehicle to identify the connector(s) of the control module/component which may be causing the condition. Refer to SI.
⇒ If DTCs are not set, refer to Symptoms – Vehicle to identify the connector(s) of the control module/component which may be causing the condition. Refer to SI.

2.When identified, use the appropriate DTC Diagnostics, Symptoms, Schematics, Component Connector End Views and Component Locator documents to locate and disconnect the affected harness connector or connectors that are causing the conditions.

Note:Fretting corrosion looks like little dark smudges on electrical terminals and appear where the actual electrical contact is being made. In less severe cases it may be unable to be seen or identified without the use of a magnifying glass.

Important: DO NOT apply an excessive amount of dielectric lubricant to the connector as shown, as hydrolock may result when attempting to mate the connector.Use ONLY a clean nylon brush that is dedicated to the repair of the conditions in this bulletin.

3.With a one-inch nylon bristle brush, apply dielectric lubricant to both the module/component side and the harness side of the affected connector.

4.Reconnect the affected connector and wipe away any excess lubricant that may be present.

5.Attempt to duplicate the condition by using the following information:
-DTC Diagnostic Procedure
-Circuit/System Description
-Conditions for Running the DTC
-Conditions for Setting the DTC
-Diagnostic Aids
-Circuit/System Verification
⇒ If the condition cannot be duplicated, the repair is complete.
⇒ If the condition can be duplicated, then follow the appropriate DTC, Symptom or Circuit/System Testing procedure. Refer to SI.


Parts Information : Dielectric Lubricant (50 gram tube) Part Number 12377900 (U.S.) 10953529 (Canada)

Scottkrough

Had the same problem:

Had my Z06 for about 3 months and it started ok but was getting harder and harder to start..
One day all of the guages started flashing and some wouldn't work car barely turned over. I thought it must be the battery. Bought a new battery and same problem.

Wiggled the starter wires and it fired right up.

Took a closer look by removing the starter and the solenoid connection point was fried.
Too hot from headers is what I suspected.
Took it apart and the solenoid post fell off. Replaced the starter and wrapped it as confusedgarage did and have not had a problem since..

Good luck

ConfusedGarage

It could be either the computer or starter situation, both are common and I remember trying to decide between the two.

Hopefully you diagnose and get fixed up either way.

erikszr1

either way will most likely be the case

KLLRVET

This weekend I'll try cleaning and greasing the BCM plug. I did check the solenoid connection for tightness, as I have had it apart a few times taking headers off and on. It was tight and seemed solid

KLLRVET

well I am still plagued with this problem. I did some testing to narrow it down.

battery 12.5-12.7v testing voltage drop while engine cranking
at battery drop to 11.2
at power distribution lug by fuse block drops to 10.6
directly at starter drops to 10.2, but voltmeter bounces a LOT, showing 1.1, 10.2, 9, 10.2

Anyone know what the normal voltage drop at the starter should be?

NOSZ06

fried solenoid connections, replaced starter and installed heat wrap around sol, no problems since

DaOtherOne

Happened to me too .. I did what NOSZ06 did and had my headers Swain Tech coated.

JDIllon

Just had the same thing on my 2006 Z. Replaced starter solved problem. You can take the starter off and Auto Zone will check it for free. Also there starter was $90.00 compared to $275.00 to $400.00 on the internet. And it has a life time warranty. They also have the heat shield for the starter. When they checked mine, it was bad. Go with the starter to begin with. It's a lot cheaper than chasing electrical problems. JD

pkincy

I have a number of cars with headers (not the Z however) and every time I install a set several months later I find a wiring bundle that has gotten heat damage from the new headers and that I did not rewire or move far enough away from the headers generally in the collector or firewall area. The hard part is that quite often the wire is fried but does not show external damage. So electrical continuity checking and a wiring diagram are useful.

KLLRVET

That's why I'm trying to get a good handle on voltage drop at the starter. I just need to know whats normal

JDIllon

It has nothing to do with voltage drop! The solenoid usually goes bad and the BCD makes everything go crazy and throws strange codes because it thinks the engine is started. I also had strange readings on my dash voltage meter and checked my battery and it was fine. My dash went completely black except for the check engine light and then lit back up after I let out the clutch. There is a relay in the fuse box under the hood, crank relay! You can jump it and if the car does the same thing as when you push the start button? it is probably the starter. Just my .02 JD