[Z06] Billows of white smoke from the exhaust pipes
07-16-2013, 04:04 PM
#41
Safety Car
Thanks, Bill....
The white smoke out of both exhaust pipes is a characteristic of a valve drop. The valve head in my engine banged around in the cylinder, broke the cylinder liner in a couple of places, then broke off the intake valve head and went into the intake manifold. As soon as the liner cracked coolant went into the cylinder and out through the exhaust. Once the intake valve broke off coolant followed the exhaust valve head into the intake manifold and then went through it into all of the other cylinders. Made a lot of white smoke and it was pouring out both exhaust pipes after I got out of the car. Two days later when it was towed to the dealership coolant was still pouring out of the exhaust.
This is what happens when you have an easy failure:
Hard failures with a hole in the block are a lot more exciting as you spin in your own oil and if you aren't lucky other cars spin as well. Definitely raises the heart rate to be spinning off track or into a wall at 100 plus mph with several other cars spinning right in behind you.
Here is what the inside of the engine looked like:
Bill
This is what happens when you have an easy failure:
Hard failures with a hole in the block are a lot more exciting as you spin in your own oil and if you aren't lucky other cars spin as well. Definitely raises the heart rate to be spinning off track or into a wall at 100 plus mph with several other cars spinning right in behind you.
Here is what the inside of the engine looked like:
Bill
07-16-2013, 04:18 PM
#42
Safety Car
Unfortunately it is not something we have not seen before.
I have had 3 similar failures on track days and 1 upside down experience at speed at California Speedway (Now AutoClub Speedway).
Sorry to see your loss. But, looking at the bright side, what an opportunity to put in a built motor!
I have had 3 similar failures on track days and 1 upside down experience at speed at California Speedway (Now AutoClub Speedway).
Sorry to see your loss. But, looking at the bright side, what an opportunity to put in a built motor!
07-16-2013, 06:26 PM
#43
Team Owner
Unfortunately it is not something we have not seen before.
I have had 3 similar failures on track days and 1 upside down experience at speed at California Speedway (Now AutoClub Speedway).
Sorry to see your loss. But, looking at the bright side, what an opportunity to put in a built motor!
I have had 3 similar failures on track days and 1 upside down experience at speed at California Speedway (Now AutoClub Speedway).
Sorry to see your loss. But, looking at the bright side, what an opportunity to put in a built motor!
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/sout...k-rat-day.html
DH
07-16-2013, 06:44 PM
#44
Safety Car
Running the full ALMS course or just the infield?
My apologies to the OP for hijacking his thread re: the engine exploding. Please do let us know what "improvements" you will make as you fix the damage.
My apologies to the OP for hijacking his thread re: the engine exploding. Please do let us know what "improvements" you will make as you fix the damage.
Last edited by pkincy; 07-16-2013 at 06:46 PM.
07-16-2013, 06:57 PM
#45
Team Owner
Free Timing or Free Garage: Use Code: Dirty Howie
DH
07-16-2013, 10:52 PM
#46
Melting Slicks
If you can keep it sunny side up please join us on August 10
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/sout...k-rat-day.html
DH
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/sout...k-rat-day.html
DH
Good on ya
07-17-2013, 12:44 AM
#47
Team Owner
07-19-2013, 12:42 AM
#48
Instructor
Thread Starter
I heard from the dealership....a valve was sucked into the block, which is what destroyed the motor.
Since I have the GMPP Warranty, we filed a claim with them. AND, guess what....the claim was DENIED! They said that they accept the fact that my car has been Auto-X and that GM/Chevy markets the Z06 for that kind of driving, so that isn't an issue.
They said that because I had a "tune" from Jim at Halltech, a very safe and mild tune, that they won't cover this.
That is RIDICULOUS because the tune has been in the car for YEARS, the car is meticulously maintained by the same Dealership monthly and the tune has NOTHING to do with a valve being sucked into the block. The only things, I believe, the tune did was provide 1-2 mpg better and improve the air ratio. It's a "safe tune" which is why it was installed.
So, bottom line, I don't know what to do. I am in touch with Kelly J, from Chevy, who is on this thread. I don't have $15-$20k to replace this engine and since this is a WELL-KNOWN and DOCUMENTED problem with the Z06, it should be covered, without question!
Any helpful feedback is greatly appreciated.
Since I have the GMPP Warranty, we filed a claim with them. AND, guess what....the claim was DENIED! They said that they accept the fact that my car has been Auto-X and that GM/Chevy markets the Z06 for that kind of driving, so that isn't an issue.
They said that because I had a "tune" from Jim at Halltech, a very safe and mild tune, that they won't cover this.
That is RIDICULOUS because the tune has been in the car for YEARS, the car is meticulously maintained by the same Dealership monthly and the tune has NOTHING to do with a valve being sucked into the block. The only things, I believe, the tune did was provide 1-2 mpg better and improve the air ratio. It's a "safe tune" which is why it was installed.
So, bottom line, I don't know what to do. I am in touch with Kelly J, from Chevy, who is on this thread. I don't have $15-$20k to replace this engine and since this is a WELL-KNOWN and DOCUMENTED problem with the Z06, it should be covered, without question!
Any helpful feedback is greatly appreciated.
07-19-2013, 12:45 AM
#49
Instructor
Thread Starter
By the way, just to set the record straight, I did speak with Jim @ Halltech about this. I am absolutely, positively not pointing any blame at Jim. He is a GREAT person to work with and I highly recommend his products and will use him for my Future Corvettes!
The Tune is NOT the culprit here, and we all know it.
I only mentioned his name because those of you who have his tune in your Z06, knows how safe it is!
The Tune is NOT the culprit here, and we all know it.
I only mentioned his name because those of you who have his tune in your Z06, knows how safe it is!
07-19-2013, 12:59 AM
#50
Team Owner
Member Since: Apr 2001
Location: Elmhurst, IL (West Suburb of Chicago) & Home of MEGA Horsepower
Posts: 26,714
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St. Jude Donor '06
I heard from the dealership....a valve was sucked into the block, which is what destroyed the motor.
Since I have the GMPP Warranty, we filed a claim with them. AND, guess what....the claim was DENIED! They said that they accept the fact that my car has been Auto-X and that GM/Chevy markets the Z06 for that kind of driving, so that isn't an issue.
They said that because I had a "tune" from Jim at Halltech, a very safe and mild tune, that they won't cover this.
That is RIDICULOUS because the tune has been in the car for YEARS, the car is meticulously maintained by the same Dealership monthly and the tune has NOTHING to do with a valve being sucked into the block. The only things, I believe, the tune did was provide 1-2 mpg better and improve the air ratio. It's a "safe tune" which is why it was installed.
So, bottom line, I don't know what to do. I am in touch with Kelly J, from Chevy, who is on this thread. I don't have $15-$20k to replace this engine and since this is a WELL-KNOWN and DOCUMENTED problem with the Z06, it should be covered, without question!
Any helpful feedback is greatly appreciated.
Since I have the GMPP Warranty, we filed a claim with them. AND, guess what....the claim was DENIED! They said that they accept the fact that my car has been Auto-X and that GM/Chevy markets the Z06 for that kind of driving, so that isn't an issue.
They said that because I had a "tune" from Jim at Halltech, a very safe and mild tune, that they won't cover this.
That is RIDICULOUS because the tune has been in the car for YEARS, the car is meticulously maintained by the same Dealership monthly and the tune has NOTHING to do with a valve being sucked into the block. The only things, I believe, the tune did was provide 1-2 mpg better and improve the air ratio. It's a "safe tune" which is why it was installed.
So, bottom line, I don't know what to do. I am in touch with Kelly J, from Chevy, who is on this thread. I don't have $15-$20k to replace this engine and since this is a WELL-KNOWN and DOCUMENTED problem with the Z06, it should be covered, without question!
Any helpful feedback is greatly appreciated.
07-19-2013, 01:09 AM
#51
I heard from the dealership....a valve was sucked into the block, which is what destroyed the motor.
Since I have the GMPP Warranty, we filed a claim with them. AND, guess what....the claim was DENIED! They said that they accept the fact that my car has been Auto-X and that GM/Chevy markets the Z06 for that kind of driving, so that isn't an issue.
They said that because I had a "tune" from Jim at Halltech, a very safe and mild tune, that they won't cover this.
That is RIDICULOUS because the tune has been in the car for YEARS, the car is meticulously maintained by the same Dealership monthly and the tune has NOTHING to do with a valve being sucked into the block. The only things, I believe, the tune did was provide 1-2 mpg better and improve the air ratio. It's a "safe tune" which is why it was installed.
So, bottom line, I don't know what to do. I am in touch with Kelly J, from Chevy, who is on this thread. I don't have $15-$20k to replace this engine and since this is a WELL-KNOWN and DOCUMENTED problem with the Z06, it should be covered, without question!
Any helpful feedback is greatly appreciated.
Since I have the GMPP Warranty, we filed a claim with them. AND, guess what....the claim was DENIED! They said that they accept the fact that my car has been Auto-X and that GM/Chevy markets the Z06 for that kind of driving, so that isn't an issue.
They said that because I had a "tune" from Jim at Halltech, a very safe and mild tune, that they won't cover this.
That is RIDICULOUS because the tune has been in the car for YEARS, the car is meticulously maintained by the same Dealership monthly and the tune has NOTHING to do with a valve being sucked into the block. The only things, I believe, the tune did was provide 1-2 mpg better and improve the air ratio. It's a "safe tune" which is why it was installed.
So, bottom line, I don't know what to do. I am in touch with Kelly J, from Chevy, who is on this thread. I don't have $15-$20k to replace this engine and since this is a WELL-KNOWN and DOCUMENTED problem with the Z06, it should be covered, without question!
Any helpful feedback is greatly appreciated.
Definitely not good news.
I just heard from the Dealership. There is a hole in the block. I guess the valve went right through it. Fortunately, I purchased an Extended Warranty which doesn't expire until the end of December. I will know in 2-3 days whether the Warranty Company covers the cost of a new engine, parts and labor (approximately $15k).
I asked if there was anything I could do to avoid this. I ONLY take the car to the dealership for maintenance and the car is maintained to a tee! They said it just happens.
I asked if there was anything I could do to avoid this. I ONLY take the car to the dealership for maintenance and the car is maintained to a tee! They said it just happens.
Tough break.
Will they give you your money back for the warranty, now that they have denied the claim, and the tune has been in the car for all this time that they have held your money for a warranty that you actually didn't have?
Last edited by '06 Quicksilver Z06; 07-19-2013 at 01:14 AM.
07-19-2013, 01:46 AM
#52
Team Owner
I heard from the dealership....a valve was sucked into the block, which is what destroyed the motor.
Since I have the GMPP Warranty, we filed a claim with them. AND, guess what....the claim was DENIED! They said that they accept the fact that my car has been Auto-X and that GM/Chevy markets the Z06 for that kind of driving, so that isn't an issue.
They said that because I had a "tune" from Jim at Halltech, a very safe and mild tune, that they won't cover this.
That is RIDICULOUS because the tune has been in the car for YEARS, the car is meticulously maintained by the same Dealership monthly and the tune has NOTHING to do with a valve being sucked into the block. The only things, I believe, the tune did was provide 1-2 mpg better and improve the air ratio. It's a "safe tune" which is why it was installed.
So, bottom line, I don't know what to do. I am in touch with Kelly J, from Chevy, who is on this thread. I don't have $15-$20k to replace this engine and since this is a WELL-KNOWN and DOCUMENTED problem with the Z06, it should be covered, without question!
Any helpful feedback is greatly appreciated.
Since I have the GMPP Warranty, we filed a claim with them. AND, guess what....the claim was DENIED! They said that they accept the fact that my car has been Auto-X and that GM/Chevy markets the Z06 for that kind of driving, so that isn't an issue.
They said that because I had a "tune" from Jim at Halltech, a very safe and mild tune, that they won't cover this.
That is RIDICULOUS because the tune has been in the car for YEARS, the car is meticulously maintained by the same Dealership monthly and the tune has NOTHING to do with a valve being sucked into the block. The only things, I believe, the tune did was provide 1-2 mpg better and improve the air ratio. It's a "safe tune" which is why it was installed.
So, bottom line, I don't know what to do. I am in touch with Kelly J, from Chevy, who is on this thread. I don't have $15-$20k to replace this engine and since this is a WELL-KNOWN and DOCUMENTED problem with the Z06, it should be covered, without question!
Any helpful feedback is greatly appreciated.
Did you know that any tune voids your warranty no matter how safe you or Jim thinks it is, even if its safer than the stock tune ???
Gm has replaced mine and many other motors that have failed on the track as long as the tune was stock.
I wish you the best of luck getting some good will from GM
DH
07-19-2013, 07:29 AM
#53
Safety Car
This does seem to a deal killer in their TSB. I am buying a car today and am taking my EFILive with me to simply verify that it is the stock tune. No reason to take a chance.
That having been said depending on what state you are in, you may want to consult a lawyer. A few states have strong insurance laws that allow for treble damages plus attorney's fees. In those states an attorney would be likely to take this case. He can get paid and also get 33% of the treble damages and it will likely be a $20+k fix.
I am not sure where the burden of proof lies in the Magnuson-Moss act but I am going to guess you have a good case. Also if the damages exceed $25,000 you can bring it in Federal not state court.
Also if you can find 99 others you get to establish a class action in Federal court and than you get some of the huge firms interested. That of course makes big money for the attorneys and only modest recovery for the plaintiffs but will at least move the case forward for all of us. To actually get this litigated to something that benefits the community I think the latter is going to be necessary. A large class action prosecuted by one of the larger better healed firms in the country. Remember we are going up against a huge corporation that likely have a $100 mm annual budget for outside counsel.
That having been said depending on what state you are in, you may want to consult a lawyer. A few states have strong insurance laws that allow for treble damages plus attorney's fees. In those states an attorney would be likely to take this case. He can get paid and also get 33% of the treble damages and it will likely be a $20+k fix.
I am not sure where the burden of proof lies in the Magnuson-Moss act but I am going to guess you have a good case. Also if the damages exceed $25,000 you can bring it in Federal not state court.
Also if you can find 99 others you get to establish a class action in Federal court and than you get some of the huge firms interested. That of course makes big money for the attorneys and only modest recovery for the plaintiffs but will at least move the case forward for all of us. To actually get this litigated to something that benefits the community I think the latter is going to be necessary. A large class action prosecuted by one of the larger better healed firms in the country. Remember we are going up against a huge corporation that likely have a $100 mm annual budget for outside counsel.
Last edited by pkincy; 07-19-2013 at 07:32 AM.
07-19-2013, 08:18 AM
#54
Oh man that sucks. My engine blew up recently too. I was covered, but the first thing they asked me was if I had a tune (I don't). For what it's worth the total bill was $22,000 at a dealership. I don't know where you can take it, but I know there are guys on here who can point you toward much less expensive options.
07-19-2013, 10:07 AM
#55
Melting Slicks
Tuned + Tracked = Voided warranty
Sorry to hear about this but its pretty common. You can try to fight it with GM. Get on the phone with GM management and threaten to sue them ect. Long shot and an uphill battle. Burden being on you that the tune plus track time didn't accelerate the failure.
Good luck
Sorry to hear about this but its pretty common. You can try to fight it with GM. Get on the phone with GM management and threaten to sue them ect. Long shot and an uphill battle. Burden being on you that the tune plus track time didn't accelerate the failure.
Good luck
07-19-2013, 10:27 AM
#56
Le Mans Master
Tuned + Tracked = Voided warranty
Sorry to hear about this but its pretty common. You can try to fight it with GM. Get on the phone with GM management and threaten to sue them ect. Long shot and an uphill battle. Burden being on you that the tune plus track time didn't accelerate the failure.
Good luck
Sorry to hear about this but its pretty common. You can try to fight it with GM. Get on the phone with GM management and threaten to sue them ect. Long shot and an uphill battle. Burden being on you that the tune plus track time didn't accelerate the failure.
Good luck
07-19-2013, 10:31 AM
#57
Melting Slicks
I agree, but I have also seen this kind of decision overturned with a little more effort by the consumer.
No promises and false hope to the OP, but I have seen it happen.
07-21-2013, 02:37 AM
#59
Tracked cars, which failed on the track, have been evaluated on a case by case basis, and the decisions as to if warranty was going to be honored or not, have been inconsistent.
Some of the "idiots" actually have documented every blown motor that they have heard about in here.
One of the most famous warranty denials which occured on a track is that of forum member hoefi.
Who took GM to court after his car failed on a track, and they denied the warranty, and had his car repaired under warranty as part of his settlement.
It was hoefi's work at evaluating valve guide wear, which was instrumental in the development of the theory that excessive valve guide wear was a contributing factor in exhaust valve failures.
Other members known to have taken GM to court, or threaten, if not actually go through with legal action over failures which occurred on the track in these cars, and were denied, include Minkster, and Marcuswelby.
Bill Dearborn had a "goodwill repair" done by his dealership for an engine failure which occurred on the track, because as he has mentioned before in here, he knew that his failure would not be covered under his warranty.
Last edited by '06 Quicksilver Z06; 07-21-2013 at 02:45 AM.