[Z06] A little more about Valve guides
06-18-2013, 08:27 AM
#21
Burning Brakes
I just find it interesting that with all the "proof" of this issue out there that no one has even seriously approached the idea of a class action suit. Or for that matter really discussed it. Aren't there usually some lawyers out there looking for stuff like this? Instead everyone moans on boards and then gets the heads done by an aftermarket shop which would negate ever getting anything from GM if there ever was a suit. Dont do anything and you live in fear of what could be. Tough problem all around with no clear answers.
06-18-2013, 09:07 AM
#22
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Nov 2009
Location: Klein TX
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2023 C6 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
2022 C6 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
For anyone here that doubts there's an issue I went to the machinist's shop today to see how my heads were coming along. They have 5000 miles and change on them when they were removed. All the valve guides were toast, even the intakes were loose. This is on a stock 2007 ZO6 with 5K miles. GM can kiss my *** if they think there's not a problem here. 
.....It's not right that I have to tear apart a basically new car because I'm afraid to drive it and then find out it's a good thing I did.
.....It's not right that I have to tear apart a basically new car because I'm afraid to drive it and then find out it's a good thing I did.
06-18-2013, 10:07 AM
#23
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Nov 2002
Location: North shore,Ma./Naples Florida
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Then what do you do? GM has very deep pockets and lawyers out the yah-zoo. Anyone who even with enough cash to go after this giant would spend a ton more cash than just fixing the problem. It's tuff to just fork out cash for this fix. A problem that GM says is not an issue. But there is and you can fix it relatively cheap. Or you can go that legal route, maybe get a new engine with the same bad valves or guides or whatever. The choice is always in the owners hands. Your right and wrong. There is a clear problem and a clear fix.
True Dat! But it's just that we have seen a lot of suits against car companies with deep pockets come out in favor of fixing the issue via recall. Even giants with deep pockets like to avoid bad PR.
06-18-2013, 10:31 AM
#24
Safety Car
Thread Starter
06-18-2013, 10:35 AM
#25
Safety Car
Thread Starter
06-18-2013, 10:59 AM
#26
Instructor
Member Since: Dec 2010
Posts: 141
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I just find it interesting that with all the "proof" of this issue out there that no one has even seriously approached the idea of a class action suit. Or for that matter really discussed it. Aren't there usually some lawyers out there looking for stuff like this? Instead everyone moans on boards and then gets the heads done by an aftermarket shop which would negate ever getting anything from GM if there ever was a suit. Dont do anything and you live in fear of what could be. Tough problem all around with no clear answers.
1. Z06 owners are not going to sit around and wait 2-3 years for a class action to be filed and settled. They want their cars fixed now.
2. Proving that it's 100% GM's fault will be incredibly difficult. GM will continue to do exactly what it's done - deny that anything is wrong, say that all the Z06 owners have been racing their cars and that's why they got damaged, etc.
3. Many Z06 owners have already had the issues fixed, either under warranty or aftermarket.
There are many other obstacles. In addition, I know that all of these points can be argued back and forth. I'm not trying to take GM's side here. My car is at the shop right now getting SS valves/bronze guides. I'm definitely on the consumer's side. But I just don't think a class action is going to happen in this situation.
06-18-2013, 12:02 PM
#27
Le Mans Master
I'm an attorney. I just don't see a class action happening here for many reasons. Just a few reasons that I can see:
1. Z06 owners are not going to sit around and wait 2-3 years for a class action to be filed and settled. They want their cars fixed now.
2. Proving that it's 100% GM's fault will be incredibly difficult. GM will continue to do exactly what it's done - deny that anything is wrong, say that all the Z06 owners have been racing their cars and that's why they got damaged, etc.
3. Many Z06 owners have already had the issues fixed, either under warranty or aftermarket.
There are many other obstacles. In addition, I know that all of these points can be argued back and forth. I'm not trying to take GM's side here. My car is at the shop right now getting SS valves/bronze guides. I'm definitely on the consumer's side. But I just don't think a class action is going to happen in this situation.
1. Z06 owners are not going to sit around and wait 2-3 years for a class action to be filed and settled. They want their cars fixed now.
2. Proving that it's 100% GM's fault will be incredibly difficult. GM will continue to do exactly what it's done - deny that anything is wrong, say that all the Z06 owners have been racing their cars and that's why they got damaged, etc.
3. Many Z06 owners have already had the issues fixed, either under warranty or aftermarket.
There are many other obstacles. In addition, I know that all of these points can be argued back and forth. I'm not trying to take GM's side here. My car is at the shop right now getting SS valves/bronze guides. I'm definitely on the consumer's side. But I just don't think a class action is going to happen in this situation.
06-18-2013, 12:16 PM
#28
Race Director
OP Glad to see you caught it before things got worse.
It's threads like these, that made me do what I just did today, and hope others do.
I've sent a request to a moderator to have all threads like this merged into one and made a sticky thread at the top of the page...
a sandbox per say for people who keep wanting to debate this issue over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
the 1000000 threads we already have on the SAME subject.
The sticky would also be a resource for new comers to this section so they could go do their own research and make decisions if they want to do something. ..vs starting yet ANOTHER valve guide related thread.
It's threads like these, that made me do what I just did today, and hope others do.
I've sent a request to a moderator to have all threads like this merged into one and made a sticky thread at the top of the page...
a sandbox per say for people who keep wanting to debate this issue over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
the 1000000 threads we already have on the SAME subject.
The sticky would also be a resource for new comers to this section so they could go do their own research and make decisions if they want to do something. ..vs starting yet ANOTHER valve guide related thread.
06-18-2013, 12:28 PM
#29
Safety Car
Thread Starter
OP Glad to see you caught it before things got worse.
It's threads like these, that made me do what I just did today, and hope others do.
I've sent a request to a moderator to have all threads like this merged into one and made a sticky thread at the top of the page...
a sandbox per say for people who keep wanting to debate this issue over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
the 1000000 threads we already have on the SAME subject.
The sticky would also be a resource for new comers to this section so they could go do their own research and make decisions if they want to do something. ..vs starting yet ANOTHER valve guide related thread.
It's threads like these, that made me do what I just did today, and hope others do.
I've sent a request to a moderator to have all threads like this merged into one and made a sticky thread at the top of the page...
a sandbox per say for people who keep wanting to debate this issue over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
the 1000000 threads we already have on the SAME subject.
The sticky would also be a resource for new comers to this section so they could go do their own research and make decisions if they want to do something. ..vs starting yet ANOTHER valve guide related thread.
06-18-2013, 01:10 PM
#31
Team Owner
06-18-2013, 02:04 PM
#32
Race Director
I actually asked others for advice as to where I should post this info. I thought if I added it to the "LS7 guide wear post" that has 1000+ responses it would get lost in the shuffle so to speak. I thought the significance of a 5K mile car with bad guides shouldn't get overlooked. I'm also with you in respect to the fact that I don't think there's anything else to be said on this subject that has not already been told. I can tell there are several very knowledgeable people that have excused themselves from anymore conversation on this subject.
and I was not singling you out really, more just your thread made me think to do it today, there are several other threads on the subject now.so not trying to be a dik and harp on you for reporting what you found with your car either. I am just glad your motor didn't blow and you caught it.
06-18-2013, 02:49 PM
#33
Safety Car
Thread Starter
OP Glad to see you caught it before things got worse.
It's threads like these, that made me do what I just did today, and hope others do.
I've sent a request to a moderator to have all threads like this merged into one and made a sticky thread at the top of the page...
a sandbox per say for people who keep wanting to debate this issue over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
the 1000000 threads we already have on the SAME subject.
The sticky would also be a resource for new comers to this section so they could go do their own research and make decisions if they want to do something. ..vs starting yet ANOTHER valve guide related thread.
It's threads like these, that made me do what I just did today, and hope others do.
I've sent a request to a moderator to have all threads like this merged into one and made a sticky thread at the top of the page...
a sandbox per say for people who keep wanting to debate this issue over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
the 1000000 threads we already have on the SAME subject.
The sticky would also be a resource for new comers to this section so they could go do their own research and make decisions if they want to do something. ..vs starting yet ANOTHER valve guide related thread.
THE ALL FACTS DROPPED VALVE & BLOWN UP LS7 THREAD.
No opinions or discussion allowed. EVER!!
1. Year of car__________
2. Mileage ____________
3. Are you the first owner? If not how many?______
4. Modifications if any________________________________
5. Circumstances at the exact time of explosion______________
6. Was car tracked? Check any. Drag__, Road race__, No__
7. Oil change intervals in miles, weight and brand._____,_____,_____.
I think if something to this effect could catch on maybe it will be of some use to see if any patterns develop. But then again maybe this is also just another bad idea?
06-18-2013, 03:00 PM
#34
Race Director
I commend you for trying to fix the Thread after thread problem by making them one but as one poster already noted it would just be too unwieldy. My thoughts are that the problem is 1.Too many uneducated opinions going back and forth and 2. And this is really two but I'll put them together, too much verbal warfare and too much space taken up with making fun of each other. My suggestion would be this.
THE ALL FACTS DROPPED VALVE & BLOWN UP LS7 THREAD.
No opinions or discussion allowed. EVER!!
1. Year of car__________
2. Mileage ____________
3. Are you the first owner? If not how many?______
4. Modifications if any________________________________
5. Circumstances at the exact time of explosion______________
6. Was car tracked? Check any. Drag__, Road race__, No__
7. Oil change intervals in miles, weight and brand._____,_____,_____.
I think if something to this effect could catch on maybe it will be of some use to see if any patterns develop. But then again maybe this is also just another bad idea?
THE ALL FACTS DROPPED VALVE & BLOWN UP LS7 THREAD.
No opinions or discussion allowed. EVER!!
1. Year of car__________
2. Mileage ____________
3. Are you the first owner? If not how many?______
4. Modifications if any________________________________
5. Circumstances at the exact time of explosion______________
6. Was car tracked? Check any. Drag__, Road race__, No__
7. Oil change intervals in miles, weight and brand._____,_____,_____.
I think if something to this effect could catch on maybe it will be of some use to see if any patterns develop. But then again maybe this is also just another bad idea?
I don't want to make it difficult for people to find information etc..but at the same time , this has gotten way out of hand IMO.
Thanks for the suggestion.
06-18-2013, 03:20 PM
#36
Melting Slicks
You're ok until it blows up. I know it sounds silly but measuring valve guide wear doesn't mean you will blow up at any moment. You can drive around with excessive wear for many many miles.
How you drive and what you do with it will dictate how long it will take before it lets go. If you never drive it hard you will most likely surpass the power train warranty. I know it sounds boring and people say whats the point of owning it then, but I know many guys who drive sick cars and they RARELY ever beat on them or go anywhere near their potential. Why? Because they are street cars and these guys never track their cars. Unless you live in some rural areas where you can really open up these cars you are pretty hard presses to take them anywhere near their breaking point.
Last edited by propain; 06-18-2013 at 03:26 PM.
06-18-2013, 03:22 PM
#37
Le Mans Master
That's not a bad idea at all, I like getting some level of detail about the car as you listed. I'd also like to as much as possible have people post what actually failed if at all possible. I will send this as a possible idea too. Thanks
I don't want to make it difficult for people to find information etc..but at the same time , this has gotten way out of hand IMO.
Thanks for the suggestion.
I don't want to make it difficult for people to find information etc..but at the same time , this has gotten way out of hand IMO.
Thanks for the suggestion.
06-18-2013, 06:25 PM
#38
And how much oil does that valve stem see when running? the oil thats in the guide area is slim in the first place unless you already have toasted guides an seals.
and what oil is there isn't going anywhere. do you know where the valve spring area gets oil? I'll tell ya ...it comes from the pushrod it sits in the lifter and gets pumped out the top of the rocker arm most of the oil at idle lands right on top of the ti retainer and rocker tip, oil goes down the spring and makes it's way to the valve stem vavle seal area.
under load 3k plus rpms it slings it everywhere....you don't know a damn thing other than what you have been told about engines in the first place. get on here an spew your crap about your wonderfull 100k trips you take ever year. while these guys that paid the same money for their cars as you did maybe more, then get on here and tell them that their isn't a problem. or from cold starts on a 5k engine
I'm not trying to mess up a post and I'll step away now...
and what oil is there isn't going anywhere. do you know where the valve spring area gets oil? I'll tell ya ...it comes from the pushrod it sits in the lifter and gets pumped out the top of the rocker arm most of the oil at idle lands right on top of the ti retainer and rocker tip, oil goes down the spring and makes it's way to the valve stem vavle seal area.
under load 3k plus rpms it slings it everywhere....you don't know a damn thing other than what you have been told about engines in the first place. get on here an spew your crap about your wonderfull 100k trips you take ever year. while these guys that paid the same money for their cars as you did maybe more, then get on here and tell them that their isn't a problem. or from cold starts on a 5k engine
I'm not trying to mess up a post and I'll step away now... also, I bet none of us would have an engine issues if only our grandmas drove our cars..........bad guides or not, they would last a long time.
06-18-2013, 06:27 PM
#39
06-18-2013, 06:30 PM
#40
I commend you for trying to fix the Thread after thread problem by making them one but as one poster already noted it would just be too unwieldy. My thoughts are that the problem is 1.Too many uneducated opinions going back and forth and 2. And this is really two but I'll put them together, too much verbal warfare and too much space taken up with making fun of each other. My suggestion would be this.
THE ALL FACTS DROPPED VALVE & BLOWN UP LS7 THREAD.
No opinions or discussion allowed. EVER!!
1. Year of car__________
2. Mileage ____________
3. Are you the first owner? If not how many?______
4. Modifications if any________________________________
5. Circumstances at the exact time of explosion______________
6. Was car tracked? Check any. Drag__, Road race__, No__
7. Oil change intervals in miles, weight and brand._____,_____,_____.
I think if something to this effect could catch on maybe it will be of some use to see if any patterns develop. But then again maybe this is also just another bad idea?
THE ALL FACTS DROPPED VALVE & BLOWN UP LS7 THREAD.
No opinions or discussion allowed. EVER!!
1. Year of car__________
2. Mileage ____________
3. Are you the first owner? If not how many?______
4. Modifications if any________________________________
5. Circumstances at the exact time of explosion______________
6. Was car tracked? Check any. Drag__, Road race__, No__
7. Oil change intervals in miles, weight and brand._____,_____,_____.
I think if something to this effect could catch on maybe it will be of some use to see if any patterns develop. But then again maybe this is also just another bad idea?