[Z06] Finally the Answer We've all Been....
04-30-2013, 07:00 PM
#21
In other words, how can the truth be an agenda?
CF: More bizarre every day . . . . .
04-30-2013, 07:13 PM
#22
If there has been no factual finding of fault of the OEM valves in the LS7 valve train issue, how can their be any agenda in advancing the idea (fact, actually) that there has been no factual finding of fault in the OEM valves in the LS7 valve train issue?
In other words, how can the truth be an agenda?
CF: More bizarre every day . . . . .
In other words, how can the truth be an agenda?
CF: More bizarre every day . . . . .
You're alright.
I was talking about some of those other guys.
But with regard to your quote above which reads:
If there is no "factual finding of fault " that it was the other guy, i.e., you don't actually sniff the seat of his trousers, well then how can you conclude that it was he who farted and that it wasn't a problem with the air conditioning in the elevator?
04-30-2013, 07:31 PM
#23
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Too bad you didn't check this story out before posting it since it really, really makes no sense at all; I am at a loss to explain how you got the same silly story from two different sources.
Anyway, if one understands the theory of how a sodium valve works, then one knows that the sodium cavity must extend to the head of the valve, because that's where the heat is -- the head receives the heat of combustion. If the sodium cavity did not extend below the bottom of the guide, the sodium would get very little heat to transfer up the stem, so what would be the point of the sodium?
For those who couldn't figure it out on there own and still don't get it after reading it, let's look at an image of a Manley NexTek sodium valve that has been posted here several times before, while keeping in mind that this is not the valve used in the LS7:
The dashed line on the sodium valve -- the one on the left -- depicts what? Yes, that's right -- it depicts the hollow area of the valve, right down to the head. That's. How. Sodium. Valves. Work.
There are other images of other brands of sodium valves that show the same thing -- the cavity goes all the way to the head. Because. That's. How. Sodium. Valves. Work.
Anyway, if one understands the theory of how a sodium valve works, then one knows that the sodium cavity must extend to the head of the valve, because that's where the heat is -- the head receives the heat of combustion. If the sodium cavity did not extend below the bottom of the guide, the sodium would get very little heat to transfer up the stem, so what would be the point of the sodium?
For those who couldn't figure it out on there own and still don't get it after reading it, let's look at an image of a Manley NexTek sodium valve that has been posted here several times before, while keeping in mind that this is not the valve used in the LS7:
The dashed line on the sodium valve -- the one on the left -- depicts what? Yes, that's right -- it depicts the hollow area of the valve, right down to the head. That's. How. Sodium. Valves. Work.
There are other images of other brands of sodium valves that show the same thing -- the cavity goes all the way to the head. Because. That's. How. Sodium. Valves. Work.
04-30-2013, 07:57 PM
#25
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Well i do believe the answer i recieved from 2 major valve companies i spoke to today is enough to satisfy me. We ripped apart an '07' today with a windowed block and guess what was found!? Not too tough to answer right. The head of the exaust valve was broke clean off. What i am some what surprised about is that i am 95% sure both heads are fixable!. Anyway on to the answers....
04-30-2013, 08:24 PM
#26
04-30-2013, 08:37 PM
#27
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
04-30-2013, 08:56 PM
#28
Burning Brakes
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is.
04-30-2013, 08:59 PM
#29
Here, i'll spell it out for you. It's not a pat on the back type deal. I work with them all day long and just like you they always think they are right. You know what though, at the end of the day all the facts point at them being wrong no matter what that piece of paper they have says. Common sense and actually doing it hands on always seem to show their theory wrong and prevail in the end.
04-30-2013, 09:03 PM
#30
04-30-2013, 09:14 PM
#31
Le Mans Master
Mark for 'Dick of the Year' Award
'06Quick for ' Helping Many Forum Members ' Award
'06Quick for ' Helping Many Forum Members ' Award
04-30-2013, 09:19 PM
#32
Burning Brakes
04-30-2013, 10:01 PM
#33
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Wasting your time, man, 'cause I have no idea what you're talking about. But the bottom line is that I've already explained to you how a sodium valve works, with pictures no less, so my point is made. If you still don't get it, I've done all I can and any tit-for-tat or various body part shaking isn't going to make you or me any smarter, so have a nice day
04-30-2013, 10:29 PM
#34
Alternate, closer to you, Road America if I can dig up my buddy that races there (spec Miata's I think... have lost touch with him over the years
).
04-30-2013, 10:42 PM
#36
Drifting
Member Since: May 2011
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Well i do believe the answer i recieved from 2 major valve companies i spoke to today is enough to satisfy me. We ripped apart an '07' today with a windowed block and guess what was found!? Not too tough to answer right. The head of the exaust valve was broke clean off. What i am some what surprised about is that i am 95% sure both heads are fixable!. Anyway on to the answers....
I was so sick of this controversey so i called Ferrea and another major vavle maker to try to get some answers. I won't name the second because of certain circumstances. The answer i got from both of them is that this valve should not have been hollow so close to the head of the valve. What's happening is the exhaust valve is coming out of the guide off the seat WAY TO far. It is unable to control the heat and is destroying the guide which in turn makes it weak and brittle.....wobbleing around is what was stated and popping the head off at the sonic weld. It was said that if the head of the valve was solid farther up into the guide it would have been fine.
So once again, it does seem to be a degree of more then one issue and the outcome were getting but they did say "not sure what the hell GM is doing putting that hollow vavle in a race piece" is beyond them!?? So let the attacks carry on but i am happy knowing the answer which i believe to be true all along.
I was so sick of this controversey so i called Ferrea and another major vavle maker to try to get some answers. I won't name the second because of certain circumstances. The answer i got from both of them is that this valve should not have been hollow so close to the head of the valve. What's happening is the exhaust valve is coming out of the guide off the seat WAY TO far. It is unable to control the heat and is destroying the guide which in turn makes it weak and brittle.....wobbleing around is what was stated and popping the head off at the sonic weld. It was said that if the head of the valve was solid farther up into the guide it would have been fine.
So once again, it does seem to be a degree of more then one issue and the outcome were getting but they did say "not sure what the hell GM is doing putting that hollow vavle in a race piece" is beyond them!?? So let the attacks carry on but i am happy knowing the answer which i believe to be true all along.
We have been saying the same thing for years
04-30-2013, 11:00 PM
#38
Burning Brakes
Engineers
Here, i'll spell it out for you. It's not a pat on the back type deal. I work with them all day long and just like you they always think they are right. You know what though, at the end of the day all the facts point at them being wrong no matter what that piece of paper they have says. Common sense and actually doing it hands on always seem to show their theory wrong and prevail in the end.
I am one of them.
Next time you ride in your car, pump some gas, or flip on a power switch -- you can think of us.
04-30-2013, 11:08 PM
#39
Race Director
If one is paying out-of-pocket for the engine repair, the cost of appropriate upgraded parts is likely less than
the cost of labor + parts the second time around to fix it again...
If GM is paying under warranty, then of course one will likely do it their way. If a third-party warranty company
is paying, maybe negotiate upgraded parts wherever possible.
JMHO...
04-30-2013, 11:20 PM
#40
Here, i'll spell it out for you. It's not a pat on the back type deal. I work with them all day long and just like you they always think they are right. You know what though, at the end of the day all the facts point at them being wrong no matter what that piece of paper they have says. Common sense and actually doing it hands on always seem to show their theory wrong and prevail in the end.
But none of that means you can claim that something is defective simply because engineers sometime make bad calls. You need some kind of linkage or evidence that the thing is defective or inappropriate for the application. If you put 2 tons in the back of a half-ton pickup, start driving it down the interstate and it breaks down a few hundred miles later, the pickup is not at fault, and the engineer did not make a mistake. Even if you try it with 10 pickups and they all fail about at about the same distance.