[Z06] Upgraded at DRM -- Cam - Heads- Headers
04-19-2013, 01:48 PM
#1
Advanced
Thread Starter
Upgraded at DRM -- Cam - Heads- Headers
First of all I would like to thank the many members of the forum who brought all of the valve guide and related cyl head issues to light. Tons of great information here.
HISTORY:
Car is an early 2007 Z (Pre-needle bearing/rocker issue). The only mods are Halltech Killer Bee with Jim's e-mail tune (mid 2007) -- before it was wildly publicized to be warranty averse. It has run great all these years and I have had NO other issues with it at all.
Car at arrival DRM. Yes, it is March in our never-ending winter in Minnesota.
CURRENT
Current mileage is 23,600. While not one to easily buy into the "sky is falling" mentality, the evidence kept mounting. To ignore it might end up quite costly, and possibly even dangerous. I had always wanted to do a cam and headers, and with warranty running out I decided to do that and get the heads done as well. I would be perfectly happy to have my heads checked and find that there was no abnormal wear, as there was no indications of ticking, oil burning, or anything else. I would feel better that at least I know what is going on with the engine concerning this issue. If there IS an issue with guide wear, then I will be just another in a long and well documented line of valve guide problems.
After doing lots of research on the forum re: heads, cam, etc., I decided to take my car out to Doug Rippie Motorsports (DRM) which is just west of Minneapolis in Waverly MN. I have previously known Doug's son Randy Rippie (who owns the shop), and bought a set of their custom valved Bilstein shocks a couple of years ago. Randy spent a lot of time with me going over exactly what I wanted. I told him my objectives were:
Drivability
Reliability
Performance
In that order. I do NOT want a high performance racing engine that I cannot drive to the grocery store. Just a 3/4 cam, good lope at idle, and no surging and bucking on the lower end. Low end torque, not high end HP is the goal, as I am usually in the 2500 - 5000 RPM range, not 5000 - 7000. While I like to do some 'spirited driving', this car will likely never see a track. I was initially looking at the Katech Torquer, but even that was a little more aggressive that I wanted to go. Randy has several custom grids, and I settled on one of his to keep the overlap below 10 (Cam 224/238, 112 LSA, Overlap=7). Randy & Doug are primarily road racers, and they have a lot of expertise in this area. While they have done many highly customized race cars, he said the majority of their customers have similar goals as mine. Good performance boost, yet conservative and reliable.
The whole package would be: DRM custom Comp cam/springs, ARH headers 1 7/8 w/cats, heads sent to WCCH - stage 2 CNC porting, Solid SS exh valves.
THE NUMBERS
As you can see, ALL of the Exh valve guides are out of spec, as well as three of the intakes. Certainly not as bad as some I have seen on this forum, but worse than I expected for this mileage.
Quick - please add me to your list(s).
Here are some pics of the heads after we got them back from WCCH. Doug personally disassembles the head, checks EVERY valve and seat alignment, checks spring pressure on EVERY spring, measures pushrods, and checks all rockers during re-assembly. You can easily see the new bronze guides and the really nice work they do at WCCH on the porting.
The car has been sitting on the lift for about a month now, and finally things are starting to happen. The mid-April weather still sucks around here as winter will not go away. Finally got it on the Dyno Jet and did about 5 pulls with Doug making the tweaks. As a racer and engine builder he always wants to get the MAX HP put of it, but I told him I wanted it a little on the rich side to keep the temps down. So he reluctantly acquiesced, said he could get at least another 15 HP out of it. The final numbers were 517HP/486 torque at the wheels. There are many of you on this forum that can put down much bigger numbers, but I am not in the "mines bigger than yours" race. I told Doug that I don't really care what the final number is, I want it to run great and be drivable/reliable.
I got it home yesterday before the latest snow storm. The first test: stop & go traffic in rush hour. Car has a mean lope at idle, yet you can let the clutch out with the slightest gas and NO surge. I couldn't really get on it with the traffic, but was able to "stab" the gas pedal a couple of times, - throttle response was instant! Probably won't be able to get it out and test it for another week or so until all this white stuff goes away - will post an update later.
I have to really hand it to Randy and Doug - I had hundreds of questions and they patiently answered them all while treating me like I was their most important customer. They let me watch everything I wanted to, take all the pictures I wanted, and pester their mechanic Todd the whole time. This is a QUALITY outfit!!!
Cheers
HISTORY:
Car is an early 2007 Z (Pre-needle bearing/rocker issue). The only mods are Halltech Killer Bee with Jim's e-mail tune (mid 2007) -- before it was wildly publicized to be warranty averse. It has run great all these years and I have had NO other issues with it at all.
Car at arrival DRM. Yes, it is March in our never-ending winter in Minnesota.
CURRENT
Current mileage is 23,600. While not one to easily buy into the "sky is falling" mentality, the evidence kept mounting. To ignore it might end up quite costly, and possibly even dangerous. I had always wanted to do a cam and headers, and with warranty running out I decided to do that and get the heads done as well. I would be perfectly happy to have my heads checked and find that there was no abnormal wear, as there was no indications of ticking, oil burning, or anything else. I would feel better that at least I know what is going on with the engine concerning this issue. If there IS an issue with guide wear, then I will be just another in a long and well documented line of valve guide problems.
After doing lots of research on the forum re: heads, cam, etc., I decided to take my car out to Doug Rippie Motorsports (DRM) which is just west of Minneapolis in Waverly MN. I have previously known Doug's son Randy Rippie (who owns the shop), and bought a set of their custom valved Bilstein shocks a couple of years ago. Randy spent a lot of time with me going over exactly what I wanted. I told him my objectives were:
Drivability
Reliability
Performance
In that order. I do NOT want a high performance racing engine that I cannot drive to the grocery store. Just a 3/4 cam, good lope at idle, and no surging and bucking on the lower end. Low end torque, not high end HP is the goal, as I am usually in the 2500 - 5000 RPM range, not 5000 - 7000. While I like to do some 'spirited driving', this car will likely never see a track. I was initially looking at the Katech Torquer, but even that was a little more aggressive that I wanted to go. Randy has several custom grids, and I settled on one of his to keep the overlap below 10 (Cam 224/238, 112 LSA, Overlap=7). Randy & Doug are primarily road racers, and they have a lot of expertise in this area. While they have done many highly customized race cars, he said the majority of their customers have similar goals as mine. Good performance boost, yet conservative and reliable.
The whole package would be: DRM custom Comp cam/springs, ARH headers 1 7/8 w/cats, heads sent to WCCH - stage 2 CNC porting, Solid SS exh valves.
THE NUMBERS
As you can see, ALL of the Exh valve guides are out of spec, as well as three of the intakes. Certainly not as bad as some I have seen on this forum, but worse than I expected for this mileage.
Quick - please add me to your list(s).
Here are some pics of the heads after we got them back from WCCH. Doug personally disassembles the head, checks EVERY valve and seat alignment, checks spring pressure on EVERY spring, measures pushrods, and checks all rockers during re-assembly. You can easily see the new bronze guides and the really nice work they do at WCCH on the porting.
The car has been sitting on the lift for about a month now, and finally things are starting to happen. The mid-April weather still sucks around here as winter will not go away. Finally got it on the Dyno Jet and did about 5 pulls with Doug making the tweaks. As a racer and engine builder he always wants to get the MAX HP put of it, but I told him I wanted it a little on the rich side to keep the temps down. So he reluctantly acquiesced, said he could get at least another 15 HP out of it. The final numbers were 517HP/486 torque at the wheels. There are many of you on this forum that can put down much bigger numbers, but I am not in the "mines bigger than yours" race. I told Doug that I don't really care what the final number is, I want it to run great and be drivable/reliable.
I got it home yesterday before the latest snow storm. The first test: stop & go traffic in rush hour. Car has a mean lope at idle, yet you can let the clutch out with the slightest gas and NO surge. I couldn't really get on it with the traffic, but was able to "stab" the gas pedal a couple of times, - throttle response was instant! Probably won't be able to get it out and test it for another week or so until all this white stuff goes away - will post an update later.
I have to really hand it to Randy and Doug - I had hundreds of questions and they patiently answered them all while treating me like I was their most important customer. They let me watch everything I wanted to, take all the pictures I wanted, and pester their mechanic Todd the whole time. This is a QUALITY outfit!!!
Cheers
04-19-2013, 03:04 PM
#3
First of all I would like to thank the many members of the forum who brought all of the valve guide and related cyl head issues to light. Tons of great information here.
HISTORY:
Car is an early 2007 Z (Pre-needle bearing/rocker issue). The only mods are Halltech Killer Bee with Jim's e-mail tune (mid 2007) -- before it was wildly publicized to be warranty averse. It has run great all these years and I have had NO other issues with it at all.
Car at arrival DRM. Yes, it is March in our never-ending winter in Minnesota.
CURRENT
Current mileage is 23,600. While not one to easily buy into the "sky is falling" mentality, the evidence kept mounting. To ignore it might end up quite costly, and possibly even dangerous. I had always wanted to do a cam and headers, and with warranty running out I decided to do that and get the heads done as well. I would be perfectly happy to have my heads checked and find that there was no abnormal wear, as there was no indications of ticking, oil burning, or anything else. I would feel better that at least I know what is going on with the engine concerning this issue. If there IS an issue with guide wear, then I will be just another in a long and well documented line of valve guide problems.
After doing lots of research on the forum re: heads, cam, etc., I decided to take my car out to Doug Rippie Motorsports (DRM) which is just west of Minneapolis in Waverly MN. I have previously known Doug's son Randy Rippie (who owns the shop), and bought a set of their custom valved Bilstein shocks a couple of years ago. Randy spent a lot of time with me going over exactly what I wanted. I told him my objectives were:
Drivability
Reliability
Performance
In that order. I do NOT want a high performance racing engine that I cannot drive to the grocery store. Just a 3/4 cam, good lope at idle, and no surging and bucking on the lower end. Low end torque, not high end HP is the goal, as I am usually in the 2500 - 5000 RPM range, not 5000 - 7000. While I like to do some 'spirited driving', this car will likely never see a track. I was initially looking at the Katech Torquer, but even that was a little more aggressive that I wanted to go. Randy has several custom grids, and I settled on one of his to keep the overlap below 10 (Cam 224/238, 112 LSA, Overlap=7). Randy & Doug are primarily road racers, and they have a lot of expertise in this area. While they have done many highly customized race cars, he said the majority of their customers have similar goals as mine. Good performance boost, yet conservative and reliable.
The whole package would be: DRM custom Comp cam/springs, ARH headers 1 7/8 w/cats, heads sent to WCCH - stage 2 CNC porting, Solid SS exh valves.
THE NUMBERS
As you can see, ALL of the Exh valve guides are out of spec, as well as three of the intakes. Certainly not as bad as some I have seen on this forum, but worse than I expected for this mileage.
Quick - please add me to your list(s).
Here are some pics of the heads after we got them back from WCCH. Doug personally disassembles the head, checks EVERY valve and seat alignment, checks spring pressure on EVERY spring, measures pushrods, and checks all rockers during re-assembly. You can easily see the new bronze guides and the really nice work they do at WCCH on the porting.
The car has been sitting on the lift for about a month now, and finally things are starting to happen. The mid-April weather still sucks around here as winter will not go away. Finally got it on the Dyno Jet and did about 5 pulls with Doug making the tweaks. As a racer and engine builder he always wants to get the MAX HP put of it, but I told him I wanted it a little on the rich side to keep the temps down. So he reluctantly acquiesced, said he could get at least another 15 HP out of it. The final numbers were 517HP/486 torque at the wheels. There are many of you on this forum that can put down much bigger numbers, but I am not in the "mines bigger than yours" race. I told Doug that I don't really care what the final number is, I want it to run great and be drivable/reliable.
I got it home yesterday before the latest snow storm. The first test: stop & go traffic in rush hour. Car has a mean lope at idle, yet you can let the clutch out with the slightest gas and NO surge. I couldn't really get on it with the traffic, but was able to "stab" the gas pedal a couple of times, - throttle response was instant! Probably won't be able to get it out and test it for another week or so until all this white stuff goes away - will post an update later.
I have to really hand it to Randy and Doug - I had hundreds of questions and they patiently answered them all while treating me like I was their most important customer. They let me watch everything I wanted to, take all the pictures I wanted, and pester their mechanic Todd the whole time. This is a QUALITY outfit!!!
Cheers
HISTORY:
Car is an early 2007 Z (Pre-needle bearing/rocker issue). The only mods are Halltech Killer Bee with Jim's e-mail tune (mid 2007) -- before it was wildly publicized to be warranty averse. It has run great all these years and I have had NO other issues with it at all.
Car at arrival DRM. Yes, it is March in our never-ending winter in Minnesota.
CURRENT
Current mileage is 23,600. While not one to easily buy into the "sky is falling" mentality, the evidence kept mounting. To ignore it might end up quite costly, and possibly even dangerous. I had always wanted to do a cam and headers, and with warranty running out I decided to do that and get the heads done as well. I would be perfectly happy to have my heads checked and find that there was no abnormal wear, as there was no indications of ticking, oil burning, or anything else. I would feel better that at least I know what is going on with the engine concerning this issue. If there IS an issue with guide wear, then I will be just another in a long and well documented line of valve guide problems.
After doing lots of research on the forum re: heads, cam, etc., I decided to take my car out to Doug Rippie Motorsports (DRM) which is just west of Minneapolis in Waverly MN. I have previously known Doug's son Randy Rippie (who owns the shop), and bought a set of their custom valved Bilstein shocks a couple of years ago. Randy spent a lot of time with me going over exactly what I wanted. I told him my objectives were:
Drivability
Reliability
Performance
In that order. I do NOT want a high performance racing engine that I cannot drive to the grocery store. Just a 3/4 cam, good lope at idle, and no surging and bucking on the lower end. Low end torque, not high end HP is the goal, as I am usually in the 2500 - 5000 RPM range, not 5000 - 7000. While I like to do some 'spirited driving', this car will likely never see a track. I was initially looking at the Katech Torquer, but even that was a little more aggressive that I wanted to go. Randy has several custom grids, and I settled on one of his to keep the overlap below 10 (Cam 224/238, 112 LSA, Overlap=7). Randy & Doug are primarily road racers, and they have a lot of expertise in this area. While they have done many highly customized race cars, he said the majority of their customers have similar goals as mine. Good performance boost, yet conservative and reliable.
The whole package would be: DRM custom Comp cam/springs, ARH headers 1 7/8 w/cats, heads sent to WCCH - stage 2 CNC porting, Solid SS exh valves.
THE NUMBERS
As you can see, ALL of the Exh valve guides are out of spec, as well as three of the intakes. Certainly not as bad as some I have seen on this forum, but worse than I expected for this mileage.
Quick - please add me to your list(s).
Here are some pics of the heads after we got them back from WCCH. Doug personally disassembles the head, checks EVERY valve and seat alignment, checks spring pressure on EVERY spring, measures pushrods, and checks all rockers during re-assembly. You can easily see the new bronze guides and the really nice work they do at WCCH on the porting.
The car has been sitting on the lift for about a month now, and finally things are starting to happen. The mid-April weather still sucks around here as winter will not go away. Finally got it on the Dyno Jet and did about 5 pulls with Doug making the tweaks. As a racer and engine builder he always wants to get the MAX HP put of it, but I told him I wanted it a little on the rich side to keep the temps down. So he reluctantly acquiesced, said he could get at least another 15 HP out of it. The final numbers were 517HP/486 torque at the wheels. There are many of you on this forum that can put down much bigger numbers, but I am not in the "mines bigger than yours" race. I told Doug that I don't really care what the final number is, I want it to run great and be drivable/reliable.
I got it home yesterday before the latest snow storm. The first test: stop & go traffic in rush hour. Car has a mean lope at idle, yet you can let the clutch out with the slightest gas and NO surge. I couldn't really get on it with the traffic, but was able to "stab" the gas pedal a couple of times, - throttle response was instant! Probably won't be able to get it out and test it for another week or so until all this white stuff goes away - will post an update later.
I have to really hand it to Randy and Doug - I had hundreds of questions and they patiently answered them all while treating me like I was their most important customer. They let me watch everything I wanted to, take all the pictures I wanted, and pester their mechanic Todd the whole time. This is a QUALITY outfit!!!
Cheers
Will do my friend.
What a great writeup.
I pride myself and of course there are many others in here who know how to do a writeup.
But this one, is right up there with the best of them.
Complete with history, pictures, and documentation.
Congrats on getting this problem put to bed, and on being able to enjoy your car again with the confidence and peace of mind which can only come through knowing that you won't be suffering a dropped stock exhaust valve.
04-19-2013, 07:21 PM
#6
Burning Brakes
I can say nothing but good about this group. They are committed for the long haul and do nothing but bend over backwards every step of the way! Doug really is old school but knows his **** and that's the way i like it. Great write up and have fun with your new found power 
04-19-2013, 07:26 PM
#7
Burning Brakes
Very nice setup, congrats. It's these proven small to mid size cam builds that make these cars so much fun day in and day out. Lots of power and still amazing good driveability.
Ya the crazy top end cams can be fun at times but I've noticed that most end up getting rid of their cars shortly after all the work and money they spend. They Just wear you out.
Ya the crazy top end cams can be fun at times but I've noticed that most end up getting rid of their cars shortly after all the work and money they spend. They Just wear you out.
04-19-2013, 07:31 PM
#8
You are so right.Even though my Katech Torquer 110 was more cam than what HornZ wanted for his own car, the cams that make that low end power and torque are an absolute blast in these cars on the street, and make then a lot of fun there.
He definitely made the right move in his selection of a cam which was right for him and his needs and planned use of his car and I commend him on it.
04-19-2013, 08:10 PM
#10
I also enlisted DRM last June for a cam, v.spring, timing chain & dyno tune on my '08 LS3base coupe. Doug & Randy were great to deal with. Good power, good drivability at a fair price. :-)
04-19-2013, 11:29 PM
#12
Le Mans Master
Very nice car HornZ, I saw it a few times while I have visited the shop. Your car is in meticulous shape!!! You will be very happy with that motor setup. Rippie has built me two cars already, and that red Z06 on the lift besides yours is my third Z. I am very excited to see the end result of this build, As we are hoping for high 500's to the wheels.
Hope to see you around this summer!
Aj
Hope to see you around this summer!
Aj
04-20-2013, 11:52 AM
#13
Advanced
Thread Starter
Very nice car HornZ, I saw it a few times while I have visited the shop. Your car is in meticulous shape!!! You will be very happy with that motor setup. Rippie has built me two cars already, and that red Z06 on the lift besides yours is my third Z. I am very excited to see the end result of this build, As we are hoping for high 500's to the wheels.
Hope to see you around this summer!
Aj
Hope to see you around this summer!
Aj
Thanks!
I saw the motor that came out of your car --WOW-- That was a HUDGE hole in that block. I don't know what caused it, but it is a poster picture of what we are all trying to avoid!
Good luck with the build. You are in good hands at Randy's shop.
04-20-2013, 12:45 PM
#14
Advanced
Thread Starter
Very nice setup, congrats. It's these proven small to mid size cam builds that make these cars so much fun day in and day out. Lots of power and still amazing good driveability.
Ya the crazy top end cams can be fun at times but I've noticed that most end up getting rid of their cars shortly after all the work and money they spend. They Just wear you out.
Ya the crazy top end cams can be fun at times but I've noticed that most end up getting rid of their cars shortly after all the work and money they spend. They Just wear you out.
For the street only guy the choice is tougher. You can go pretty big on the cam and still be relatively safe. I've read plenty of posts which stated "I wish I'd gone biger" They love the power and it drives great, and now want more. So how much bigger?? Move up to the next step and get more power, but now it drives like s***. So now what? That's why it's such a tough choice. Where is that line where "I'm happy with the power, but it's not a chore to drive". It would be great if we could go somewhere and they had about four vehicles all lined up and we could try them out - see what it's like to live with one for a day. The only way to test is if you know someone that has a vehicle that you can drive at least a little bit. The rest of us just have to suck it up and make a choice - and then live with it.
Randy tells me he has had more say that they went too big instead of too small. Please note that I am not advocating one way or the other. I'm just saying think long and hard about how you will use it and what tradeoffs you are willing to make.
Get as much information as you can; this forum is a great place for it. Choose wisely grasshopper.
P.S. Speaking of information, I'd like to give a tip of the hat to Quicksilver, for his relentless research and data-mining on many of these issues which helped me make my choice. BTW - what number am I on your valve list - it's over 200 now isn't it?
04-30-2013, 09:25 PM
#18
Melting Slicks
Congrats! Doug and Randy know there shxt, but I have to say Todd is the wrench that makes it all happen! They put a Torquer 110 in my car with ARH, and its FAST!
Did I see your car on Hwy 7 last weekend, had vented hood, looked great,
Hey Randy, those new lights looks awesome, will be over to see them soon!
Did I see your car on Hwy 7 last weekend, had vented hood, looked great,
Hey Randy, those new lights looks awesome, will be over to see them soon!
04-30-2013, 09:32 PM
#19
Really good points. Picking a cam is easy for the dedicated racer - go as big as the supporting hardware (and cash flow) will allow. Stock pistons or forged, custom rockers, titanium exh valves, oil squirters and upgraded pumps -- the list keeps going on. It has to be a package deal or something will break - weakest link theory.
For the street only guy the choice is tougher. You can go pretty big on the cam and still be relatively safe. I've read plenty of posts which stated "I wish I'd gone biger" They love the power and it drives great, and now want more. So how much bigger?? Move up to the next step and get more power, but now it drives like s***. So now what? That's why it's such a tough choice. Where is that line where "I'm happy with the power, but it's not a chore to drive". It would be great if we could go somewhere and they had about four vehicles all lined up and we could try them out - see what it's like to live with one for a day. The only way to test is if you know someone that has a vehicle that you can drive at least a little bit. The rest of us just have to suck it up and make a choice - and then live with it.
Randy tells me he has had more say that they went too big instead of too small. Please note that I am not advocating one way or the other. I'm just saying think long and hard about how you will use it and what tradeoffs you are willing to make.
Get as much information as you can; this forum is a great place for it. Choose wisely grasshopper.
P.S. Speaking of information, I'd like to give a tip of the hat to Quicksilver, for his relentless research and data-mining on many of these issues which helped me make my choice. BTW - what number am I on your valve list - it's over 200 now isn't it?
For the street only guy the choice is tougher. You can go pretty big on the cam and still be relatively safe. I've read plenty of posts which stated "I wish I'd gone biger" They love the power and it drives great, and now want more. So how much bigger?? Move up to the next step and get more power, but now it drives like s***. So now what? That's why it's such a tough choice. Where is that line where "I'm happy with the power, but it's not a chore to drive". It would be great if we could go somewhere and they had about four vehicles all lined up and we could try them out - see what it's like to live with one for a day. The only way to test is if you know someone that has a vehicle that you can drive at least a little bit. The rest of us just have to suck it up and make a choice - and then live with it.
Randy tells me he has had more say that they went too big instead of too small. Please note that I am not advocating one way or the other. I'm just saying think long and hard about how you will use it and what tradeoffs you are willing to make.
Get as much information as you can; this forum is a great place for it. Choose wisely grasshopper.
P.S. Speaking of information, I'd like to give a tip of the hat to Quicksilver, for his relentless research and data-mining on many of these issues which helped me make my choice. BTW - what number am I on your valve list - it's over 200 now isn't it?
And enjoy the new build knowing that the car is now rock solid.
Yes, it is approaching 220 members in here now.
Congratulations on the new build and enjoy it in good health.
04-30-2013, 09:43 PM
#20
Burning Brakes
By the way, the LS7 with the windowed block we tore down today was the Red Z above which is owned by 1BadBurb. I tried to get the word to you that i would snag those heads off of you Burb but ole'man Rippie swooped in and is going to gobble them up already. Nice coffee table your going to have anyway
