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Old 12-04-2012, 06:31 PM   #1
Sm5654
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St. Jude Donor '13
 
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Default Cam/Headers Question...

I have decided to buy myself a piece of mind and upgrade the LS7 due to this valve guide debacle. Patrick at Quality Motorsports in Lewisville, TX and I discussed what is best for my needs/wants and here is what we came up with:

WCCH-GM Stage 2 CNC LS7 Heads
Cam package; dual valve springs, 160 thermostat
Ported intake manifold and throttle body
LG carbon cold air intake

My question to the group is what advantages do I gain by also installing headers? I am at my budget limit for this upgrade so if they are installed it will be at a later time. I know the car will sound throatier (is that a word?) and gain some HP, but it seems like $2k for an exhaust note is kinda steep. Will it be worth it to install them by themself at a later date?

Question 2: the cam spec he gave me is 237/252? What does that mean and how much HP can I expect to put down? I'm hoping to hit around 550.

Thanks for the info gentlemen...
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Old 12-04-2012, 06:39 PM   #2
'06 Quicksilver Z06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sm5654 View Post
I have decided to buy myself a piece of mind and upgrade the LS7 due to this valve guide debacle. Patrick at Quality Motorsports in Lewisville, TX and I discussed what is best for my needs/wants and here is what we came up with:

WCCH-GM Stage 2 CNC LS7 Heads
Cam package; dual valve springs, 160 thermostat
Ported intake manifold and throttle body
LG carbon cold air intake

My question to the group is what advantages do I gain by also installing headers? I am at my budget limit for this upgrade so if they are installed it will be at a later time. I know the car will sound throatier (is that a word?) and gain some HP, but it seems like $2k for an exhaust note is kinda steep. Will it be worth it to install them by themself at a later date?

Question 2: the cam spec he gave me is 237/252? What does that mean and how much HP can I expect to put down? I'm hoping to hit around 550.

Thanks for the info gentlemen...
First off, congrats on your choice in modifications, and for being proactive in managing the valve issues of the LS7. You have chosen some of the best parts available.

The following is a comparison dynograph in my car with the listed modification before and after the installation of KOOKS Headers and catted X pipe.

The car was tuned with the listed modifications and while still running the stock exhaust manifolds, run for a few weeks, and then the headers were added in place of the stock manifolds, and the car retuned for the headers.

The graph and the Run Files are enclosed for both. Bottom line is if you're doing a cam, then I'd strongly recommend the headers if you can swing them. The bottleneck in my original setup, was the stock exhaust manifolds and cats.

This is actually a continuation of my prior thread.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...h-torquer.html

In that thread I ultimately made the decision to add headers.

With the headers and the tuning now taken over by Ed Hutchings, the car is at 527.34 RWHP/492.75 RWTQ over the prior 508.02/482.81 with the stock manifolds.

Peak gains are impressive, but the real benefit of the headers, and what has made them well worth the money, is demonstrated at around 3500 -3700 RPM where there is a gain of 26.81 RWHP/ 38.05 lb/ft RWTQ over the stock manifolds. At 3750 RPM there is about a 40 RWTQ difference.....and yes, you can feel it.

There is a gain throughout the entire RPM range, as indicated in the comparison dyno chart.

So if anyone is wondering how much power I was leaving on the table by running the stock manifolds, the answers are below.

Click the image to open in full size.

Look at what happens, with the horsepower and torque readings comparing the pulls with the stock manifolds vs with the headers, at any given RPM, but especially from about 3500RPM on in to 6800 RPM which is where we shut it down.

This is the "before", ie the setup without headers and using the stock manifolds with the best tune that we could get.
Click the image to open in full size.

This is the "after", ie the setup with headers and using the stock manifolds, and following final tuning for the headers.
Click the image to open in full size.

Modifications include

DRM Bilstein shocks
2008 axle shafts
MGW shifter
Katech LS9X clutch
Tick remote clutch bleeder
Callaway Honker CAI
Ported stock Throttle body
Ported stock intake manifold
Katech Torquer 110 Cam
Katech C5R Timing Chain
WCCH Stage 2 Cylinder Heads
KOOKS 1 7/8 headers X Pipe with Cats
NGK TR6 Spark plugs
Tuning by Ed Hutchings

Forum member RIchieRichZ06 got even more impressive gains after going with headers from the stock manifolds.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...510-new-s.html

With regard to your second question, this is a good article if you are interested in what the numbers mean.
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...s/viewall.html

Last edited by '06 Quicksilver Z06; 12-04-2012 at 06:53 PM.
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Old 12-04-2012, 06:42 PM   #3
lebvette
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Yeah....I would do the headers if your going with a cam.
I think many (including myself) are going with the cam upgrade.
Someone else will have to chime in about the cam. I'm considering the Ragin Racin Lethal. I probably will take it down to Cajun land to let him do it.
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:18 PM   #4
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You are all keeping the stock rockers (just askin')?
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:22 PM   #5
Sm5654
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I have been in contact with Patrick at Quality and also Taylor at Dallas Performance and they both suggested just about the same thing and have not had any problems to date on any of their cars. I trust these guys and I think with the bronze guides and SS valves I'm not going to mess with the rockers.
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:23 PM   #6
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What kind of numbers do yall think I can put down without the headers?
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:05 PM   #7
2000FRCZ19
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I have the same set up but with a smaller cam. 231/247 lsr grind and I hit a little over 550 hp. you should be very close to that. with headers you should be in the 560s to 570 range depending on the dyno. it should be a fun car and drive nicely.
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:16 PM   #8
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That's what I'm talking about! One response up top said 527hp with headers... I thought that sounded a bit low. I may splurge for headers. We'll see what the tuners advise.
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:53 PM   #9
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your getting the lg intake and asking about headers? really?
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:55 PM   #10
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That intake was just suggested by Patrick. Are there better intakes?
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Old 12-05-2012, 05:24 AM   #11
lilredvette05
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Patrick is a really good guy and I highly recommend his shop QM. If he suggest that intake I'd go with it or whatever is in your budget. I just got mine back little over a month ago. Done the whole heads cam thing but I got them milled too. I can't remember what the specs on my cam but I bet it's the stage 4 that's fairly new it makes good power and drives almost like stock to me. With kooks 17/8 headers and calloway intake and other little mods I made 558hp but I'm on 20x13 wheels if that makes a big difference
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:03 AM   #12
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I have just started on a similar upgrade path with my 06 Z06. The baseline showed 475 RWHP and after adding a Halltech intake and retuning the MAF it made 490 RWHP. Now, the heads go to WCCH and on go a NW throttle body, ported FAST, a cam and LG LT headers.
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:20 AM   #13
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That's a strong baseline. Let me know what kind of numbers you put down with the FAST manifold. I think I'm just going to port the stock intake / TB
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:26 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sm5654 View Post
That's a strong baseline. Let me know what kind of numbers you put down with the FAST manifold. I think I'm just going to port the stock intake / TB
It may be awhile, I don't know what the turnaround time on the heads will be. We are all now well aware of how busy Richard/WCCH is!
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Old 12-05-2012, 12:23 PM   #15
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http://static.photobucket.com/player...-00-41_981.mp4

idle vid of mine. its about one step down from the one you are looking at.
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Old 12-05-2012, 12:46 PM   #16
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Sounds very nice!
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:35 PM   #17
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Are you getting this intake, carbon super ram thats $1800?

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...-purchase.html
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:38 PM   #18
Sm5654
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Ha no... I'm pretty sure the one I was quoted was a little under $500. I saw when they released that one, no way that thing gives you enough hp for 2g's in my opinion.
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:43 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sm5654 View Post
Ha no... I'm pretty sure the one I was quoted was a little under $500. I saw when they released that one, no way that thing gives you enough hp for 2g's in my opinion.
Alright...i just wanted to make sure ...cuz if u were buying that one i'd get headers instead

In my mind, headers are a must....extra HP and sound are worth it plus you'll always think i have left some HP on the table...
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:46 PM   #20
Sm5654
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Ya know I'm starting to lean towards the headers too. Something about that throaty exhaust note and a cam... Gotta love it
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:46 PM
 
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