40YRW8

I am a serious weight fanatic and I am going to do a little battery experiment. I have been using the 11.5 Braille battery for the last 2 years and kept them on a tender whenever the car is parked at home. My first Braille lasted about 8 months with no problems. I then went on vacation and forgot to hook up the tender. When I got home 8 days later, it was deader than a door nail. It took a charge and worked OK except that it had hardly any reserve capacity. It probably sulfated and would start the car fresh off the tender but if I went anywhere, sometimes it wouldn't re-start the car. I replaced it with another identical Braille with a promise to myself to not hurt it also. It has been in the car for about 13 months and it has lost it's reserve capacity also even though it has never been drained like the first one. It starts the car OK but if I drive it a short distance (5-6 miles) it just barely starts the car and I think I am pressing my luck keeping it in the car. What I am now going to replace it with is a Lithium Ion battery. They have way less internal resistance and will provide more amps with less stored energy than the lead-acid AGM batteries like the Braille. I am not going with a $1400 Braille that has proven itself well because, well, I just can't afford it. I have ordered and willl try the Shorai LFX36L3-BS12. It is $349 and only weighs 4.95 pounds. What I consider the most critical factor in how a battery starts your car is CCA (Cold cranking amps). The Braille is listed at 360 CCA but the Shorai is listed at 540 CCA. The Shorai SHOULD start my car better than the Braille and have roughly the same reserve capacity. The Braille always turned my motor over slower than the stock battery even when new and fully charged. I am hoping to see an immediate improvement in starter performance. I always keep my light options set to remain off in the options defaults and I never sit and play the stereo when the engine is off so I am expecting the reserve capacity to be at least as good as the Braille which is adequate for how I use my car. I am also replacing my tender with a smart tender from Shorai ($79.99, OUCH!) made specifically for the Lithium Ion batteries. I should have some comments in a couple of days or so and will get back to you then.
Gary

dsevo

Keep us posted. I didn't realize there was a more reasonable Lithium Ion battery, and if your test is successful I will be ordering one.

OJCrush08

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skudlw

Wow, that's a pretty expensive battery. I still have my OEM and it has worked without complaints for 5 years. I put it on a tender if I won't be driving for in 1 - 1-1/2 weeks. Plan to keep the OEM for another 5 years.

Vette5.5

I too am curious about the Shorai, as first saw these at a motorcycle show and looked quite impressive. These are supposed to have a much longer sit time, without self discharging, but the Vette's electrical system drain while sitting is quite high. As you found out with the Braille, once you drain a battery down to total zero, it's a goner. Don't think I'd be wanting to do that on a $350 battery. When I first saw the Shorai booth the size 36 wasn't even availible yet, but hear talks of possibly a dedicated automotive model in the works.

1fastLT

I am going to follow this thread because I'm curious to see how the battery works out for you. I know Lithium Ion batteries (when discharged at a high rate) are susceptible to overheating which can cause the battery to melt down... When a Li-ion battery has a melt down the heat released can and will start a fire. I'm not saying this to scare you I just want you to be aware. With that said li-ion is very similar to lipo batteries (used in the RC hobbies (I race RC cars)) although lipo batteries are a little more volatile but have the same tendencies and when drained under heavy load basically explode (catch fire). However, the lips are used regularly with one key part included for safety; they must always have a voltage limiter, which stops the drain at a certain voltage (i.e. it turns off the motor that is causing the drain). Without the limiter, the batteries are extremely dangerous.

I would be curious to know if these li-ion batteries have had any melt down issues (might be worth looking into).

Food for thought.

QwikC

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Six-Gun-Todd

Dumb question....

I'm an electric R/C fanatic and would consider myself quite knowledgable about modern batteries....lithium ion and lithium polymer particularly. So why can't you adapt a 12V balance charger to maintain the battery ? Should be easy.....but perhaps I'm missing some electricity directionality that precludes this endeavor.

Vette5.5

No claims of a battery expert here, but have some Shorai pamphlet's showing a modified Lithium-Iron-Phosphate design that’s more thermally stable. They also offer foam shimming kits for better fitment. Also noticed, the “batterystuff.com” site carries the LFX36 series for $315 bucks. Keep us informed.

40YRW8

True, lithium ion batteries are a totally different deal than lead-acid. One thing that helps out is that when the computer starts my car, the starter is only engaged for right at 1.6 to 1.8 seconds so I am hoping heat isn't going to be a factor. I also bought their charger and plan to keep it on the tender cycle to keep the systems from draining it. I let you guys know is a few days.
Gary

40YRW8

Cost wasn't a factor this time. I did remove a perfectly good stock battery when I changed to the Braille. What is important to me is a battery that will suit my needs and remove the most weight possible. My stocker weighed almost exactly 35 pounds. It seems to me that lithium ion has the characteristics I am looking for. We'll see.
Gary
P.S. For all you drag racers, if you covet your best 60' times, the stock battery makes for good ballast. Leave it in. If you have all the traction you need, all I can say is that I am jealous.

SG333

How's this battery holding up?

$300ish is reasonable for a lithium battery. Similar batteries from Voltphreaks is north of 1k.

mcar00

Thanks for sharing the results. I also am in the process of shopping for a new battery. My 400CCA Deka ETX30L (I think it's the same as a Braille) crapped out after about a year and a half. I think I saw a Braille 550 CCA for about $170 but it weighs around 21 pounds which makes your find look very inexpensive if it works.

40YRW8

The battery was ordered last Thursday and arrived Monday afternoon. The instructions said that it was charged to 90% capacity and not to put it on a charger. I also bought a Shorai charger. They said that I could put the charger on in maintenance mode (it comes with a maintenance and a charge mode) and this morning it was showing fully charged. We are going crazy getting ready for a huge family Thanksgiving with everyone coming in from out of town and staying over for my mom's 90th birthday. Hopefully, I'll get a chance to install it on Sunday. When I start the car the first time, I will make it a point to check to see how much heat buildup the case shows.
Hang in there,
Gary

40YRW8

Well, I got a chance to install the battery on Thursday (yesterday). There is good news and some not so good news. The battery terminals on the Shorai are flat, round plates with a 6mm bolt center. They supply angle brackets that can be installed for a bolt-on terminal. This is exactly the same as the Braille. The Braille comes with the same type brackets but also comes with a pair of round, brass SAE terminals that bolt through the center that fit our standard automotive round clamp terminals. Shorai advertises that they have the SAE terminals available as an option but I couldn't seem to find a way to pay for them. I shot them an e-mail asking how to find them and they said that they aren't made yet and should have them available by January or so. Nice. Well I figured that I would just swap my Braille terminals over to the Shorai. Unfortunately, the Shorai terminals sit down into a corner recess that the Corvette clamps are too big for. The Braille worked out OK because their terminals sit basically flush with the top of the battery. Well, CRAP. I got me a new toy and by GOD I'm gonna make it fit. All I did was find about 6 6mm steel fender washers and use three on each of the SAE terminals to space it up enough so that my cables would get a grip on the SAE terminals. Redneck rocket science at its best. I plan to order a set of SAE terminals from Shorai as soon as they are available and problem solved. Now, for the results. I hooked up the battery, got in and started the car. The starter spun the motor about 50% faster than with the Braille and about the same speed as the stock AGM battery. I backed it out of the garage and shut it off so I could hit the car with the California Duster. I then started the car, pulled into the garage and shut it down again. I used my hand to check for any heat buildup in the battery case and there was absolutely none. It was still, as far as I could tell, about room temperature. I didn't hook up the tender since my wife and I were heading to my brother's for Thanksgiving dinner in about 20 minutes. I started the car a third time with no chance to recharge and it started exactly the same as the two previous times. I backed out of the driveway and got, no kidding 80 yards down the street and, wouldn't you know, our neighbors were in their driveway with their brand new 8 week old baby girl. If Linda spots a baby, just stop the car, get out of the way and let her go. I shut the car down as soon as we stopped and spent the next 20 minutes agreeing as to how beautiful the baby was (actually, quite true). Since we were already late for Thanksgiving, it only took me the better part of a half hour to get back on the road. I started the car for the fourth time with no chance to recharge and it again started exactly as before. If I was still using my Braille, this would be only a fifty-fifty chance at best. While on the road for the first couple of miles I was showing 14.2-14.3 battery volts and then went to varying between 14.4 and 14.5. Car started normally for the trip home in the dark and with full lights and high beams, the voltage still showed 14.4-14.5. If, at any time, I started the car on the Braille, it would show 13.2-13.3 volts for several minutes. I finally put the charger on the battery on maintenance mode (Shorai calls it "Store") when I got home. This morning, I made a bunch of short trips while out shopping and the battery worked perfectly. Not bad for a battery that showed on my scale at a feather light 4 pounds and 13 ounces. By the time I get the SAE terminals, I figure it is just about 5 pounds even. If, at any time, I run into any kind of problem, I will resurect this thread and let you know. As of now, I am a very happy camper.
Gary

40YRW8

Two more days of short errands and trips around town. Still using the tender and everything is working very well. Tomorrow I plan to put the Z to bed without the tender and see how it cranks with about 15 hours of normal parasitic amp drain.
Gary

glass slipper

Great info and follow up for us guys looking to save weight!

Katech_Zach

This is music to my ears. 10lbs lighter than my current Braille for just over $300. That is excellent $/#. Finally a Lithium battery for us common folk.

screaminchevy

nice write up! bookmarked

abstruse1

I suppose they made these batteries to be able to be charged by a typical auto alternator.

Car alternators are capable of putting out very high amperage, e.g. when they're recharging a very low battery (or feeding a heavy current drain). So if one of these batts went way down, it could potentially see a very high charging rate, unless there's protective circuitry built in, or unless the internal resistance of a discharged battery were very high.

Any information about this?

Also, I wonder if one could parallel two of these batts. I'd think the issue would be whether all the cells would be charged at the same and correct rate.

Anyway, thanx for this most interesting thread!